Building an Arsenal

Posted by: CoachJim

Building an Arsenal - 02/28/08 09:47 PM

Before building an arsenal you need to figure out what you are building an arsenal for: League or house patterns, travel league or multiple houses, Tournament bowling, or Sport/PBA pattern leagues or tournaments.

For a regular house shot league you will need 4 balls:

1. A Heavy oil ball for when the machine goes nuts and puts down a flood, it happens. Suggested Balls to use: Cell, Buzzbomb, black Widow bite, Special Agent or Attitude shift or Passion, or columbia resurgence, MoRich LevRG. Brunswick Twisted Fury.

2. Benchmark ball. This is an everyday ball used for most medium conditions. Suggested balls: Columbia Rival or momentum, Any of the Nv series from Ebonite, Hammer Black Widow, or Toxic, Lane#1 Super Nova, MoRich NsaneLevRG, Storm Secret Agent, or Rapid Fire, Legends/LaneMasters Black Pearl. Brunswick Fury Pearl

3. Dry Lane ball for when you show up and the lane oiling machine is broken. Suggested balls to use: Columbia Jazz, Ebonite Bash, Hammer Vibe, Lane #1 Supernova xp or Liberator, Legends/Lanemasters Hornet, Brunswick Groove DryR or Power Groove.

4. Spare Ball DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT ONE.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/28/08 10:41 PM

Sorry I had to enter what I had written and come back later.

Balls to add for a Travel League.

1. Aggressive Pearl to cut through carrydown and open up a shot.
Columbia Momentum, Ebonite Raid or Clash, Hammer Black Widow Pearl or doom, Storm Gravity Shift, Legends/lanemasters the buzz.

2. A different drill pattern on your benchmark ball. If you drilled it with the pin above the fingers drill another one with the pin below the fingers and shine it, or try shining the other one and dulling this one. The reason for a different drilling of the same ball is when you go to some houses you hit the pocket, but just can't seem to carry, switching to the same ball with a different pattern and or different surface may help put 10 in the pit.

Additional or optional balls for PBA patterns. There is a difference between PBA Experience league shots and the actual patterns in houses that don't own the proper lane oiling equipment, so look out for that. The proper machine is either red, or black and says sanction technology on it. If not you probably are just getting what the lane man interprets the pattern to be.

The key to PBA Patterns is not necessarily equipment, but proper execution and delivery. By that I mean you can have success with the wrong ball in your hand as long as you are throwing it right.

With that in mind I will do my best to tell you what seems to work and what types of players seem to do best on each pattern.

Shark: the longest pattern. Lately the pros seem to be playing it from outside with low pin aggressive equipment and end over end low side rotation release this is after burning open a hole in the pattern around the 5 board. To do the job of burning a hole in the pattern you need an aggressive ball dulled to at least 320, keep in mind this is not the ball you will be playing the shot with, but also keep in mind you don't get a half hour of practice to burn a hole in the pattern like they do on tv so I would suggest a high pin aggressive ball with a high flare drilling and 500 abralon finish that you could use until the 5th frame or so, then change to the low pin 5 to 5 1/2 inch pin to pap aggressive ball with 2000 abralon finish to go the rest of the way.

High Rev players have success playing inside lines on the shark start off by burning a hole going up the 10 board and moving in and playing to the hook spot you just created the key is to increase the side rotation as you move in deeper and avoid crossing the playing area of those playing outside of you because their carrydown will cause your shot to hang.

Scorpion Pattern. Plays simillar to a house pattern with the break point between 6 and 9 just don't drift left or right of that at the break point or you will pay a stiff penalty. Your aggressive ball will work until the oil breaks down then your benchmark ball will take over from there.

Chameleon Pattern. High Revers will have success playing from deep inside out to the 7 to 9 board with the pin over fingers benchmark ball, straight players will have success going up the second arrow out to 6 or 7 with one or the other benchmark balls either pin over or under fingers which ever carries.

Viper pattern. Plays great end over end up the second arrow with a shiny weak ball, pin under the fingers to keep it from burning out too quickly. Lefties seem to rule on this pattern this year so righties take a tip and play hard and straight up the outside.

Cheetah pattern. Seems to be playing harder this year and doesn't seem to be scoring as high as last year.I am not sure what the deal is I have not had the chance to bowl on it. It seems that you don't need to be out on the gutter like last year and seems to play close to the viper but with a sharper break point so a lower pin and duller surface in the viper ball might work with an end over end release.

Sport shots all that matters is how long the pattern is that tells you straight away what ball to use longer = more aggressive and higher pin shorter = shiny and lower pin. If you are having problems with the ball being too jumpy at the breakpoint use a duller piece of equipment if the ball is not turning the corner use a shiny coverstock.
Posted by: saabbowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/28/08 11:30 PM

Just a note: the Cheetah pattern has been modified. I do believe the extended the oil by the gutters a few extra feet, so if you get it too far outside, that dry isn't there like it use to be to let the ball recover.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/29/08 10:06 AM

Admin: +1 for pinning this or a similar thread to the top
Posted by: pegleg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/01/08 05:24 PM

One thing I would disagree with is that the Twisted Fury isn't a heavy oil ball. Atleast that's not how I see it.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/01/08 06:07 PM

Everyone I know that has a twisted fury uses it on broken down medium or fresh lighter conditions. It's a pearl solid ball - that is the least traction a coverstock can have. Heavy oil tends to demand early friction.

In fact, it's the weakest ball in Brunswick's Premium line: http://www.brunswickbowling.com/twisted-fury

If you get a lot of movement out of it on heavy oil, you're not actually on heavy oil
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/02/08 06:54 AM

I have heard of pros using the twisted on many conditions by altering the surface. You could also use a Total Inferno, but I wouldn't recommend a fury unless you get a good one, it is hit or miss with the new factory, the twisted sanded seems to give everything the fury was supposed to plus seems to be more consistent from the factory, like they might have turned the corner in their quality control, at least I haven't heard of someone's twisted hitting like a marshmallow or skidding through the pindeck right out of the box like I have from some fury owners, so I have a hard time recommending the fury.

The total is more aggressive in cover similar to the absolute, but doesn't have the back end the twisted does when you dull it, which is why I recommended it, besides it seems to be a good one two punch with the fury pearl.
Posted by: Brandon510

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/02/08 04:44 PM

I hear Brad Angelo on Xtra Frame the PBA video service. Brad Angelo was talking about what balls he would be using and why on Viper Pattern. He noted that he would start with Total Inferno and as the front head get burnt he would use twisted fury, which he stated dont seem to see that early friction as much as other balls.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/02/08 05:09 PM

Surface prep plays a big part with friction too, as CoachJim was saying. At OOB the Twisted Fury won't have have the friction. If you take that same ball down to 800 like the Fury it will encounter more friction earlier. The Twisted Fury is at Brunswick's Rough Buff.

As for issues with the Fury, I have an original Fury, I had mine delivered to my house the same day pro shops around me were getting it delivered to their shops and the only problem I've had with mine is the same as with all typical dull solids, soaking up oil. Removing the oil and redoing the surface fixed this as well as regular maintenance, which I was doing anyways, but now I touch it up on the spinner every so many games. I have mine at 500 abralon. I know of many others that have the ball and have few or no issues with it.
Posted by: Smooth Stroker

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/02/08 07:58 PM

For a house shot, I can see having 4 balls, but no need to carry them all into the building with you. You build an arsenal starting with ones bowling style. that has to be the first ingredient. There is no one size fits all when it comes to arsenals. My arsenal is very different from Erins ( not picking on you Erin ), because of our different bowling styles. A majority of my bowling balls are drilled for length. The balls that hook the most, don't get used a lot. Even on PBA shots, the big hooking balls don't get used much. Yes I can get just as much hook, if not more hook on PBA shots. The big problem is you don't have the mistake room on the PBA shots that you do on house shots. So the same balls that work wonders on house shots, may not work wonders on PBA shots.

It may have been the house I was bowling at, but I found that most if not all of the patterns played better from the outside. I thought that the carry was better and it seemed like I had an easier time getting to the pocket. Carry was a much bigger issue for me than reaching the pocket. Matching up ball with bowler is so big on the PBA shots. One thing I saw was that you have to be in the pocket. You can't risk losing the pocket for more backend. So, you want balls that don't jump off of the breakpoint. You want an evenish rolling ball. Strong arc with a continuos backend would work well. Still, even with that, I bowled better with balls that got length. The reason is because of my rev rate and ball speed. I'm not Robert Smith, but my rev rate has always been higher than my ball speed. I have just this year increased my ball speed. If I get to bowl in another PBA pattern league, I will see how that changes things.

For a house shot that you normally play on, I can't see carrying more than 3 balls into the building. a medium/heavy oil ball and a light/medium ball will cover everything they can throw at you. That means different things to different people. For me its a particle pearl and a pearl ball. No matter what they do to the lane machine, I can bowl on it with my particle pearl. I keep an extra ball in my car for drier conditions.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/02/08 08:20 PM

Smooth, not every house shot plays the same, if you don't need 4 balls then I'm not insisting you carry 4. The house I bowl in has two different lane oiling machines each one can break down and do weird things to the lane.

Some nights I had to start off with a heavy oil ball going across the second arrow out to 5, and by the end of the night I would be in front of the ball return using my dry lane ball, during the rest of the night I would have changed balls 3 times speeds 5 times angle 6 times and release 6 times. Some nights I would stop at the pro shop and pick up a new ball and still have 5 balls in my locker and not have a ball that would work for that place, then the next week I would use the same ball all 3 games.

There is also no reason that your league balls will not work on some of the sport/pba patterns. Most people don't have the cash or desire to keep up a 12 to 20 ball arsenal when an eight ball arsenal with a few release and speed changes will expand your arsenal to match up just as well with less cost.
Posted by: Smooth Stroker

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/03/08 12:03 AM

Well, if you don't know what to expect out of your house shot, then by all means carry inside whatever you can lug in. But from all the houses I have bowled in out here in NY, the houses usually use the same pattern day in and day out, whether that's light or heavy. I keep any extra balls in the car. I like to carry in a particle pearl ball because it will play on anything from lightish to heavyish oil. I have learned to carry one wherever I go. The other ball I carry in depends on what is normal for the house. If the house is usually on the heavy side, I carry a matte ball ( that is almost never ). If the house is usually on the light side, I carry a low differential pearl ball for more length ( the norm ).
Posted by: Brandon510

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/03/08 04:07 PM

Problem i have is when to change to a differnt ball or when to move instead. Sometimes i move too much and not change ball quick enough or change balls to quickly and not move enough.

Posted by: Sparky One

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/03/08 06:47 PM

I bowl at two different houses. One is medium oil, the other light. (however today it was bone dry) The one that is medium, usually seems to play more consistent. Meaning, I guess I am more consistent there. The one that is light to bone dry is very inconsistent.

Off topic....does it cost a lot for oil these days? Why would any house consistently let the lanes get so dry?

The house I bowled at last year had heavy/heavy oil. You could see the oil spray off the ball (like a truck through mud) as it went down the lane. Unfortunately that house closed and is something else now, i.e. no longer a bowling center.

I'm only in my second year of bowling, so I am slowly building an arsenal. I'm not at the point where I can tell when to switch balls due to the lanes breaking down. Right now I am just trying to take the approach of getting a ball with different surfaces.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/03/08 06:55 PM

My rule of thumb is if I am getting to the pocket but not carrying I try to watch the ball's reaction and see if it is burning early and leaving flat 10 pins or over hooking and leaving solid back row pins.

If the ball is burning early and not finishing strong enough I move into the oil at least 4 boards with my feet and 3 with my eyes at the arrows with the same ball and get it out to the same break point with a little more side rotation, if the ball doesn't turn the corner I go to a less aggressive cover and snappy pin over fingers drilling, this usually works.

If I am leaving solid back row pins I move in again 4 and 3 and play the same break point this usually gives the ball enough room to lose some of it's energy and carry out the back row pins.

If I am not finding the pocket and the place I bowl at there are many nights like that I try to change my release and go more end over end with it and go more direct to the pocket, sometimes this means I have to play a shot similar to the one Barnes was playing on tv yesterday by playing across the third arrow and only getting the ball out to 12 or 13.

Posted by: untutored

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/25/08 11:32 PM

I carry four balls, and my setup is a lot like this. I'll usually switch balls at least once during league, as the shape of my shot changes--I'd rather make a big change if I think it will give me more room to miss, rather than make a small move and try to get by on accuracy.

Heavy oil: Storm Agent
Benchmark: Brunswick Urethane Groove (non-sanded)
Light oil/Down&In/Spare: Brunswick Target Zone
10pin: Columbia White Dot

I keep looking for ways to dump the White Dot so I can carry another aggressive ball, but I haven't found another consistent solution for the 10pin yet.
Posted by: Rickywin

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/26/08 02:06 AM

Hey untutored,
How come you don't use your Target Zone for your 10 pins, since it is also a spare ball/polyester ball, instead of using a separate White Dot? That way, you can carry much more aggressive balls.
Posted by: untutored

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/26/08 02:28 AM

With dry edges, my Zone will cut right in front of the 10pin, making for a very difficult shot. Since I also use the Zone as a strike ball, I don't want to wax it up to reduce friction.

The White Dot is more highly polished to start with, and then I wax it with the machine at the bowling alley. I throw my deep strike shot, and the WD glides right over to the 10 even in dry conditions.


I've tried to use the Zone for 10pins using a couple of different techniques, but I haven't found anything I can rely on so far--right now I'm working on taking the 10p with a new hand position. The last couple of years, I've been joining a summer league just to experiment with new ideas, so that will be something I'll work on this summer.
Posted by: TheDemolitionMan

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/06/08 02:18 PM

I had the same issue with my Columbia 300 Scout Reactive ball. I found two things that work for me. I don't have a plastic or urethane ball to throw at ten pins. The first thing that I found out is that if I stand on the filler board and pull my index finger in toward my other fingers and extend my small figure out as far as I can I can get a straight roll out of my ball. The last thing you have to do is throw it anywhere between the 20 and 15 boards. The other is to again stand on the filler board and walk at a steeper angle towards (kind walk at where the two pin would be) the ten pin and let the ball slid across the lane (again hitting anywhere between the 20 and 15 boards until it hits the dry and picks up. This one's kind of tough for me to suggest without actually seeing you throw the ball and seeing how it reacts.
Posted by: VPmiracle

Re: Building an Arsenal - 06/30/08 05:36 PM

Coach Jim, terrific thread, I was going to leave a specific post about my current fascination with equipment (yea I got the ball bug all of a sudden). This is after bowling with basically one ball for 4 1/2 years (Columbia Titanium Messenger Pearl, it's the brown Messenger).

I bought a Blue Vibe at Nationals thinking it'd be a good dry lane ball. Boy, that sucker moves more then I thought it would. Our lanes have been pretty bone dry as of late, but it defintely moved more then my Messenger (one bowler friend of mine thinks I've burnt out the Messenger and need a new benchmark ball). BV might even make a decent new benchmark ball for me.

I've been considering, Momentum, Rival, Storm Street Rod Pearl. The guy at Nationals that drilled my ball said I might like their new Psycho (Hammer guy).

The Brunswick booth in Albuquerque was busier then all the others combined.
I talked to the guy there, telling him we bowl on wood lanes and he suggested a
Rampage or an Avalanche. Probably for drier lanes. He said for Albuquerque, I'd need something stronger (I averaged 182 with my Messenger in Albuquerque).

So I guess my question is, stick with Columbia 300, or just mix and match and try them all. It sounds like fun but I know since the Messenger was a good ball for my home house, something similar makes sense doesn't it?
Posted by: VPmiracle

Re: Building an Arsenal - 06/30/08 05:37 PM

Coach Jim, terrific thread, I was going to leave a specific post about my current fascination with equipment (yea I got the ball bug all of a sudden). This is after bowling with basically one ball for 4 1/2 years (Columbia Titanium Messenger Pearl, it's the brown Messenger).

I bought a Blue Vibe at Nationals thinking it'd be a good dry lane ball. Boy, that sucker moves more then I thought it would. Our lanes have been pretty bone dry as of late, but it defintely moved more then my Messenger (one bowler friend of mine thinks I've burnt out the Messenger and need a new benchmark ball). BV might even make a decent new benchmark ball for me.

I've been considering, Momentum, Rival, Storm Street Rod Pearl. The guy at Nationals that drilled my ball said I might like their new Psycho (Hammer guy).

The Brunswick booth in Albuquerque was busier then all the others combined.
I talked to the guy there, telling him we bowl on wood lanes and he suggested a
Rampage or an Avalanche. Probably for drier lanes. He said for Albuquerque, I'd need something stronger (I averaged 182 with my Messenger in Albuquerque, My book was 188 last year and 178 the year before, so I was thrilled with 182 avg in ABQ.).

So I guess my question is, stick with Columbia 300, or just mix and match and try them all. It sounds like fun but I know since the Messenger was a good ball for my home house, something similar makes sense doesn't it?

I throw about 13.5 mph at least as measured on the scoring machine. I kind of consider myself a down and in player, THS over second arrow bowler, like to go outside. But with BV, had to go pretty deep inside (for me). Ball worked, have to give it credit.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 06/30/08 09:12 PM

The blue Vibe is a pretty good benchmark type ball, it is primarily for drier lanes and or wooden lanes. If the blue vibe (fairly weak ball) is out hooking everything else then the lanes are probably pretty dry, the momentum, and rival might be too much ball and not hook as much as the vibe because they will grab early and burn out.

You are going to need a weaker ball for where you are and something that will compliment your blue vibe, the psycho might work well since it has a stronger core and similar cover, the widow venom might also be a good choice if you like hammer. The Columbia dead flush might also be a good choice if you like columbia, but it is made by ebonite the same as hammer products. If you like the old columbia coverstocks then you might do better with amf or Lane #1 since they are made at the old columbia plant and use the same materials.
Posted by: VPmiracle

Re: Building an Arsenal - 06/30/08 09:25 PM

I didn't know any of this, thanks a lot.

I asked the guy at the desk last week. They dressed the lanes and they broke down in like 6 frames (and we bowl 4 games). Here's what he told me.

They are using synthetic oil for a wood house. Why? He said the oil for wood is $550 for 5 quarts. The synthetic stuff is $55 for the same amount. Now i'm no expert on this topic, but I guess they're using the wrong oil to save money.

I'm thinking of bowling 45-minutes away in the fall, but then my equipment would really not be appropriate for that place.

Thanks for the reply and sorry about the double post above, my browser acted like it got knocked off line, but i guess the post made it through anyway.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 06/30/08 09:34 PM

The double post thing seems to happen when the thread spills over to the next page.

The wrong oil for the wood lanes doesn't surprise me in the least.

The new Bash which is a solid reactive ball would also make a good benchmark ball for that type of lane. When they dry up you may have to go to urethane or polyester.

If you go bowl somewhere else that has synthetic lanes and more oil, then you would be hard pressed to find a better benchmark ball than the rival or momentum, cgeorge loves his avalanche solid which also seems to be a good benchmark type ball.
Posted by: VPmiracle

Re: Building an Arsenal - 06/30/08 11:29 PM

I really liked the looks (for what that's worth) of the Momentum. The Rival had peeked my interest too. Could've used something a little stronger in ABQ but for once a year, I made hay with my Messenger.

The Brunswick booth at Nationals was 4 times busier then everywhere else, is there stuff that good, that popular? I'm not too familiar with their line but a lot of guys were drooling over the Twisted Fury (I think that's the name, looked like a marble).

I used my plastic ball for strike shots in game four last week, not a whole lot of success but it was moving, rolling it up five and it'd get around the pocket.

I stayed and practiced and that's when I found the Vibe would work. But I was trying to use it off my Messenger line and adjust a board or two or three. I needed to make a major move to the inside and swing it and found a shot on the dry boards for the Vibe.
Posted by: Chubbs

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/01/08 12:09 AM

I have a Twisted Fury at 1000 Abralon polished, and it is my benchmark ball. Versatility is this ball's biggest asset. On wood lanes, I start out with the Twisted and ball down as conditions require. On synthetic and fresh conditions, the Twisted can squirt so I will ball up if need be. The knock on the Twisted has been that it doesn't handle fresh/flooded or dry very well, but that's not what it was designed for. You can find a line on anything in between that will work well, and from there your adjustments will be small. Very good ball, but it might be stronger than you'd want for your benchmark. Definitely worth a good look, though!
Posted by: VPmiracle

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/01/08 12:51 AM

Folks were drooling over them at the Brunswick kisok at Nationals.
As you can tell, I spent a lot of time at all the places, trying to find out
information. I came back with info. which led to more questions! Thanks for your input though.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/01/08 07:23 AM

I do love my avalanche solid - as a benchmark ball, those with less hand might find it a bit lacking. From your description of your game, and where you are playing on wood, you will need something that is a step up from the Avalanche when you get more a more medium-heavy shot on synthetics. The cover does seem pretty versatile, so you may be able to take it to 1000 or 2000, but at the box finish, it might be a bit long for you as a benchmark ball.

EDIT: As mentioned, the Twisted Fury is a good "one step up" from the Avalanche. As a plus, both are very controllable - having those 2 balls, plus something like a Cell, would be a great 3 ball arsenal that could handle just about anything.
Posted by: VPmiracle

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/01/08 05:20 PM

Thanks cgeorg. Are you a Brunswick fan? I couldn't believe how busy their booth was in Albuquerque compared to all the others. I've usually had columbia 300 stuff
for whatever reason.
Posted by: johnw1

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/02/08 12:34 AM

Coach,

If you recall I wasn't too happy in finding a "wormhole" at the bottom of my thumbhole in a newly purchased Twisted Fury. It turns out that the hole is the result of a "straw" that was used in the manufacturing process involving the locator pin. At the same time I wasn't at all happy with the distributor who would not take the ball back unless I submitted photographs of the wormhole...an attempt to photograph the hole was largely unsuccessful.

I did bowl a couple of games and was satisfied with how the ball reacted and have decided to keep it. If I did return it I would have to pay for the drilling the replacement.

In the event I run into dryer conditions that the Twisted Fury can't handle I recently purchased a Roto Grip Neptune.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/02/08 07:30 AM

I am not a fan of any one ball manufacturer - I do have 2 Brunswick balls that do what I bought and drilled them to do.

I could have filled those holes in my arsenal with another manufacturer - the Avalanche was probably going to be a Street Rod until my terrible Demo Days experience. The Total I got because I entered a pro-am and it was $100.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/02/08 07:37 AM

The straw is there to locate the mass bias and hold the core in place during the manufacturing process. The drill bit must have hit it when drilling the thumb hole and tore it out, it is only about 1/8" piece of solid plastic rod, not a straw, and shouldn't bother your ball reaction in the least. I didn't post to your other thread because if you don't like it send it back, what am I going to say to change your mind.

I have seen drillings that have hit the pin and the same thing happens, sometimes it cracks out, sometimes it doesn't, but the mb indicator pin is not as detrimental as having the locator pin drilled out, the worst thing that will happen is the remaining mb pin or "straw" comes out and you have a vent hole to your thumb.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/02/08 07:38 AM

I was like cgeorg. I had balls that did what I wanted them to do, and I got balls as prizes. but, I am happy that my proshop recommended the ball that started my allegiance to one company. Although, I still find that One Company does not fill all the holes, and other brands still are needed.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/02/08 09:04 AM

Another part of it is that some companies tend to have certain characteristics that carry over their whole line. Lane masters - longevity, better through carrydown, even hook, etc. Their particle balls are tough to beat. MoRich makes very aggressive cores, and tend to have good heavy oil balls. Brunswick - earlier, even rollers. Both the Avalanche and Twisted Fury are in the 7 or 8 range on sport shots as rated by BTM. That is really good, and is why I went with the Avalanche. However, one other hole I am trying to fill in my arsenal is a very aggressive pearl ball, to go long and snap hard, but from a pretty deep inside line. For that, I will most likely be going with Storm, because they tend to do that sort of ball very well.

Buy a reaction, not a brand. The brand can influence the reaction, and should be taken into account, but it should not be the main reason.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/02/08 09:22 AM

Granted, cgeorg. I still use my Scorchin Inferno from Brunswick on longer, heavy oil patterns, and I rely on my Storm Shift for medium lane conditions. These two just work for me.

But, there others in those lines that don't work, for me that is.

Balls have to fit your game. If that is mostly 1 manufacturer, than so be it. For the most part, different balls work best.
Posted by: johnw1

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/02/08 02:24 PM

Coach,

When first discussing the wormhole situation with Karl Wolf, my driller, he said that he would be meeting with a Brunswick representative that same week in Buffalo NY. It was the Brunswick rep that labeled the plastic rod you describe as a "straw".

In any case, another reason why I decided to keep the ball was, other than the wormhole, everything else in terms of pin distance and top weight, was to my satisfaction. This hasn't always been so when ordering off of the internet.

The mass bias locator pin is still in place so I suspect that the rod or straw was sheared off towards the bottom half of the thumbhole as the wormhole is on the perimeter of thumbhole in my thumbslug. The edge of the locator pin is a hair over 5/16" or 21/64" from the edge of the thumbslug. The wormhole wasn't visible when I first inspected the ball as it was filled with particles left over from drilling.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/02/08 02:30 PM

Isn't the straw supposed to lead to the pin placement on the surface? Does it in your ball? Can you tell the continuation direction of the worm hole to the pin?
Posted by: Vincent123

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/28/08 03:14 PM

I'm starting to build a new arsenal. Looking to put a storm x factor and a storm x factor deuce in it. Can someone tell me which ball is pearlized or solid.

There was a link someone posted earlier with tips on building an arsenal, and it said i needed a pearlized, solid, and a particle ball.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/28/08 03:53 PM

Almost no one makes particle coverstocks anymore. Most of the heavy oil balls these days are strong solid reactives.
Posted by: Rack Wrecker

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/28/08 08:00 PM

^Which is why I'm holding onto my hand-me-down Ebonite Predator lol! Particle balls are hard to come by now and having one in my arsenal is a nice bonus, even if it doesn't always get the attention it deserves. Speaking of particle balls, an Ebonite Stringer Low Flare Particle caught my eye the other day while just randomly searching up retired balls. I have no idea how to go about searching for a retired ball or whether or not its really even possible. Since we're on the topic of particle balls, anyone know how to find retired balls in today's modern ball market?
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/28/08 08:03 PM

I believe Lane Masters still puts out a few particles.
Posted by: slap

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/30/08 09:45 PM

If I'm rolling on an oily wet/dry there is nothing better than my particle WMB. That ball is (still) silky smooth.
Posted by: whiz

Re: Building an Arsenal - 11/30/08 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Rack Wrecker
Since we're on the topic of particle balls, anyone know how to find retired balls in today's modern ball market?


i see alot in my proshops sale ball rack. i also see some on ebay. best bet would be to goto different proshops that you never visit that have used/on sale balls.
Posted by: Rack Wrecker

Re: Building an Arsenal - 11/30/08 03:52 PM

Thanks! I knew ebay had some, but they haven't seemed to be that common or in that good of shape. But honestly, I didn't realize that the proshops really had sale racks that often. Maybe I just haven't been to the right ones lol
Posted by: TheDemolitionMan

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/09/08 05:38 PM

My arsenal is getting changed but I hope for it to look something like this:

Roto-Grip Cell=Heavy oil
Storm Hy-Road=Medium
Roto-Grip Venus= Medium-Light
Columbia 300 Scout Reactive=Dry
Columbia White Dot=Spares

I might throw the Virtual Gravity and/or a Pearl ball like the Illusion or the Twisted Fury in there as well. And maybe get two Hy-Road and two Cells one with pin up and the other with pin down. But that is in the very ditant future right now.
Posted by: bchinfoon

Re: Building an Arsenal - 01/09/09 03:11 PM

What do people think about a Hy-Road vs a Black Widow Pearl for a medium oil ball? I'm having trouble deciding what to pick for my next ball.
Posted by: AmpleSound

Re: Building an Arsenal - 01/09/09 03:27 PM

bchinfoon, that to me is all about preference really. A lot of people agree that the BWP is probably the best ball in the BW series. Though you then have to decide how you want to drill it for a specific lane condition, in your case medium oil.
Posted by: Fgreco

Re: Building an Arsenal - 01/30/09 09:23 PM

I should have came to this thread instead of posting a new thread about arsenals. SORRY.

I need help building an arsenal. Just for my bowling center and fun leagues at the same bowling center. As you can see I have the Storm Street Rod Pearl and the Ebonite which moves a lot. The culombia ball I am going to retire it is too old now I think. So I have 2 balls I want a third but which one?
Posted by: IndyBowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/17/09 11:37 PM

I could use some advice guys. I wouldn't say I am a cranker, but I hook the ball quite a bit. Usually play twenty out to ten and back.

Right now this is what I currently own:

Dimension that is dull so it hooks more(16 LB w/ even hook)

Venom that is dull (16 LB w/ 12:00 pattern goes too long so I dulled it)

Neptune (10 pin ball/Heavy Dry; 15 LB so I can get less hook/extra ball speed)

Tour Power that has heavy shine ( 16 LB; a little more hook than Neptune; one of my first favorite balls like ten years old)


Backup Options:

Over Time that is dull (16 LB; Similar to Dimension with less hook)

Phenom that is dull (16 LB; hooks a little less than Dimension and Over Time)


I am looking to add a ball that will be stronger than my Dimension. I need suggestions on an extremely strong hooking ball and drilling style. Thanks!
Posted by: TheDemolitionMan

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/17/09 11:50 PM

The Rogue Cell, Virtual Gravity, Cell and maybe the Cell Pearl would be the way to go then. The Rogue Cell is supposed to be the Hy-Road of the Crown Line. Having both more length and overall hook than either of its predecessors. The VG is a skid/snap monster, although I've seen it with some rather weak drillings and it goes up the boards rather nice as well. The Cell and Cell Pearl are the new standard in heavy oil balls in some people's eyes. The Cell is more of an arching heavy oil demon while the Pearl is more skid/flip.
Posted by: TheDemolitionMan

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/17/09 11:54 PM

Originally Posted By: bchinfoon
What do people think about a Hy-Road vs a Black Widow Pearl for a medium oil ball? I'm having trouble deciding what to pick for my next ball.


The Hy-Road is more versatile, from what I've seen, than the BW Pearl. I don't think I've ever seen the BW Pearl in the finals of any TV broadcast. The Hy-Road has been there 8-9 times already and used but multiple bowlers, even by Storm staffers throwing against one another.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/18/09 05:28 AM

I originally intended this thread to help people make decisions on their arsenals for themselves. I will have to update the ball list since most of the balls on the original list are now outdated, but the same rules apply if you go back and read the first two posts I made, and apply newer equipment which others here can give you better advice on than me, I can't bowl anymore so I don't have first hand knowledge on the most up to date balls, other than the reviews I have read and results from my students.

If you need help deciding between two balls, post a thread on it and get people's opinion.
Posted by: Paulmcxxx

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/22/09 06:27 PM

When you are building an arsenal, try to think of it like a golfer: You aren't going to have all drivers or all putters in your bag, you need the different clubs to get you through the round.
I have a MaxxZone for heavy/longer oil, a Fury for shorter patterns but heavy oil, a Twisted Fury for medium conditions, a Sidewinder for shorter patterns, a Wizard for medium conditions with a lot of carry down and a urethane ball for super dry conditions.
Most of my layouts are meant to roll rather than snap. I learned that when I first bowled in a PBA regional. I was using the balls that work on a house shot and was getting insane over/under reactions. I would throw a shot and go through the nose, make a 3/2 adjustment left and have a washout, 2 and 1 right and go brooklyn. It is very humbling to go someplace with your 220 average and leave having averaged about 170...
Posted by: clt2244

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/09/09 07:02 AM

My usual 4 ball bag:
Cell/BWP/SD-73/Pluto/many others for heavy oil
Toxic - Benchmark and my go to ball
Link - When Lanes Start to carry down
WWF Rock Spare - spare ball

if needed ill add:
Roto Grip Neptune - that in between heavy oil benchmark ball
Gold Lable Elite (Polished) - if need something between Link and spare ball

on league nights ill roll with the top 4 but in tournments ill take 5-6, it just depends on how many i want to take in lol
Posted by: Kappasheno

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/03/09 07:25 PM

In an attempt to build an arsenal, I'm confronted with the following question: "Do I really need a Mid-Performance Ball?"

Current Arsenal:
Rogue Cell: Med - Heavy
Cell pearl: Med
Twisted Fury: Med
Razyr: Dry
Golden Globe: Spare
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/04/09 07:21 AM

I'd say you have a pretty big hole between the cell pearl/twisted fury and the Razyr.
Posted by: sharnothegreat

Re: Building an Arsenal - 09/08/09 09:36 PM

im a newbie to this bowling game and would love to see maybe an updated list of some equipment that should be in a regular house league. thanks
Posted by: captcrabby

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/16/09 01:36 PM

My "arsenal" consists of a Momentum Swing..period.That said Im a newbie.First ball i have ever owned and first that has a finger tip grip.I joined a league last week and my first time out is this evening.At the end of teh league I will be gettinga Freeze.So I guess I have 2 balls now! I was practicing last week and ran into lanes that were so heavily oild I couldnt get my ball to do anything.So Im thinking I need a heavy oil ball(ok I really just want to spend some money before the wife does).Speed is around 17mph. medium revs and high track,if 0 degrees equals hand behind the ball and 90degrees equals hand beside the ball(righty towards the gutter) Im at about 50 degrees. any suggestions?
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/16/09 02:24 PM

You will have a hard time finding a ball more aggressive than the Momentum Swing: http://columbia300.com/images/uploads/pdfs/performance_comparison_chart.xls

A Virtual Gravity or original Cell might give you a bit more, but it wouldn't be much.
Posted by: captcrabby

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/16/09 02:57 PM

Thank you. When I purchased teh ball I asked for a mid range ball that would give me some hook.It appears that its more than I thought.I do not know much about the drillings but I had anotyehr driller lok at it when I had the finger plugs replaced and he said it was drilled"mild".So Im wondering if maybe I should get something a bit more agressively drilled?
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/16/09 03:19 PM

Another heavy oil ball, the AMF Mega Friction.

I will trust any ball in oil that has a warning on the coverstock:

"WARNING THIS BALL HOOKS"
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/16/09 08:22 PM

The best heavy oil ball I have ever thrown is the Visionary Ogre Particle. Feel the surface, and you will understand why.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/16/09 08:34 PM

Joe, have you tried that ball on shorter/lighter patterns? It almost seems that it has so much surface that it would roll the same on any pattern, regardless of oil.
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/16/09 08:57 PM

I have a very aggressive layout on the ball...30 to VAL, 3-3/8 PAP to Pin, 5-1/2 PAP to MB, 6-3/4 Pin to Balance Hole. I have not tried it on a shorter PBA pattern, but would expect it to either roll out half way up the lane (due to surface), or be nearly impossible to control the breakpoint (due to layout).

Where I bowl league on a THS shot, before they started skimping on oil, I was able to stand 35, swing 15 to about 5 and back and score with it, but it would not be my first choice for league or other competition.

I am currently bowling on Shark in my PBA Experience league, and am finding success using the Ogre Particle standing around 26, playing tight around 13 out to about 10 and back. With any other ball in my arsenal, I would have to point it straight at the pocket.




Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/17/09 02:56 PM

I am thinking about conditions like the tournament I was in early last month, where people were even hooking plastic off the lanes. The issue I had was that when I would kill my equipment, it might grab the lane anywhere between 5 feet and 50 feet. With that ball being so aggressive, it seems like you could kill your release, send it up the twig, and at least get a consistent read out of it. So what if it rolls out at 30 feet - as long as it does it at 30 feet each time, you can figure out a way to hit the headpin.
Posted by: kidrobot

Re: Building an Arsenal - 10/17/09 09:31 PM

Where I bowl the best players use one ball. the top 3 averages in my last league were 232-221 and all 3 of the guys used one ball and 1 of them had an occasional back up ball. Last week I heard one of them shot a 868 series, which is now the state record. Any insight on carrying a crapload of balls VS carrying one or two balls which is what I see a lot of good players do at my lanes? I'm sure they have more balls if they play on PBA patterns, but I'm not sure.
Posted by: BowlerBob

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/16/10 12:36 PM

New arsenal desired (unrelated to the current topic flow).
Need some input/suggestions to improve my arsenal.
I'm 150# 5'6", stroker, 15 mph, low-med rev, 4:30 release,16# balls, but will probably move to 15#. I bowl on a fresh oil (dry outside) THS. My trailing avg is ~185 and improving.
I like comparing the numbers, RG, diff, mass bias diff, etc.

I'd like to build an arsenal more suited to my style.

RotoGrip/Storm matchmakers suggest Hy-road & Reign Fire (very similar numbers), and Cell Pearl & Nomad Pearl (have it).

I would like 3 different layouts that are suited to the balls' design:
1 stacked: strong hooking ball for fresh oil or bowling the center and out of others' track;
1 label leverage: med-strong hook, med-long length, handle lane breakdown;
1 length layout: something to get through the front end cleanly with a strong back end (skid/flip), looking at 920A

[Rambling...I'm intrigued by Legends full coverstock.
I believe in harder balls to transfer energy better, but at the few points of hardness, this may be moot.
Watching Kelly Kulick use a Mission and her opponent in the semi-round (what's his name?) switch from Brunswick to a Mission (it looked like a Mission)caught my attention.]

I'm open to suggestions, Ebonite, Brunswick, Storm/Roto, Visionary, whatever.
Thanks!
Posted by: ridersofthestorm

Re: Building an Arsenal - 04/14/10 01:46 AM

At them moment, I've only got two bowling balls, and one of them is a spare ball.

My Nxt Dimension is med to heavy, But it rolls less on dry because of the less friction on the lanes, at first it nearly drove me up the wall because i couldn't figure out why.

My next ball will be a Natural because I travel with my bowling and everyone knows you will hit different oil patterns along the way, Dry Oil ball which may come in handy for the 7 pin on my home alley as alot of the time when the lanes are done they'll be dry, because I haven't been able to master picking the 7 up with the dimension as no matter how hard i throw it it still misses it.

Then I am not too sure, I was going to get a Trop Storm but I've heard there rubbish in terms of durability and really aren't worth getting. Though I am open to different opinions.

Anyone give me advice?. I am looking for an all Storm Arsenal.

Cheers
Posted by: 300goal

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/11/10 07:48 PM

Bowlers-new and experienced alike:
I'm thinking I need a spare ball. What I see in league and on TV is most that use a spare ball throw it straight to make the spare-is that how most of you see what to do with a spare ball?
Is plastic the way to go or can anyone suggestsome brands/makes?
I use a 15# Track Delta Rule now(was on sale in my pro shop) as my only ball. I used to use a 14# Brunswick Swarm with little to no hook on it and it needs to be redrilled because my thumb is bigger now. Any suggestions?
Posted by: BowlerBob

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/11/10 10:54 PM

Try throwing an alley ball that's a pound or two lighter to pick up spares and see if you like it.
Posted by: BobH

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/20/10 04:05 PM

I've been looking at the Mission as my "Oil Ball".

Currently:
Ebonite Crossfire - Pearl polished
Hammer No Fear - Sanded (arcing outside ball - large flare)
Ebonite No Limit - Stacked? (long with flip-weight hole)

Looking for ball to use for heavy oil that will roll strong in oil from Left of Center, not be tired when it clears it (like my Hammer does), with strong arcing action.

Am I on the right track?
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/21/10 09:20 AM

It is hard to say from where I'm sitting, I haven't seen you bowl, and I don't know the lane conditions you are bowling on, and since I don't bowl anymore I am not up on the current bowling equipment and how it reacts on the lanes, other than ball reviews I have read.

Sorry I can't be of help here. My thoughts are that you might want to look into getting a Theory since it seems to be what you are looking for, and the mission is a little more even rolling and controllable, where the Theory is all about covering boards on the back end of the lane.
Posted by: BobH

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/21/10 10:14 AM

Well, to give some background... I am a 3/4 roller, @ 15 MPH, Low-Med revs, Stroker. Average 205.

I have a follow-thru that gives me alot of skid, which is why the No Fear ball is an outside ball for me because it has a large flare and is tired by the time it come out of the oil from the inside but works great from the outside. The No Limit is an Inside Ball very useful for burned heads... it ignores them and only rolls the last 15-20 feet or so. If there is an oil flood or very long, the No Limit is useless to me. The reason I am thinking Mission is because of the hype I've been reading that it supposedly "rolls" in the oil, rather than skid and/or flare all over the place, but it supposedly holds the line and has a strong move to the pocket. This would be for a line that would be @ 20/15 to 10/5. I do understand that any ball can be drilled to do a little more or less, but I want to find a OB cover stock and weight block that would survive rollin this line under extremely oily and/or long conditions.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/21/10 03:52 PM

Start off with it with no weight hole and left in out of box dull before you do anything to it and see how you like it. If I was able to bowl I would have 3 or 4 of them by now, so it is a good ball.
Drill it fairly strong with a 4" pin to pap and keep it closer to the val like about 20 to 30 degrees this will give you a better reaction on the back end and get the ball into a heavier roll when it hits the friction. Put the mb between 45 and 60 degrees from your pap this will help keep the ball aggressive at the break point.

Let me know how you like it.
Posted by: BobH

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/31/10 07:40 AM

Well CoachJim, I didn't get the Mission. I have a Reign of Fire coming in that I'm going to give a chance to. Gonna keep it OB surface and have already been talking to the Pro Shop owner regarding my expectations and possible Layouts. He's drilled my current 3 balls when I had to lower ball weight and we've bowled together a bit, so I feel he has a clear understanding of what I'm looking for it to do.

We'll find out next week when I take it the "Beast Lane" and see if it can "roll up" there. If I can tame that lane with this ball, there's no telling what it's potential may be!
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/31/10 07:55 AM

The Reign of Fire did well at the Nationals last year for many people. On the good side it is not at the top of the food chain, so if it isn't enough ball then you can still go up from there.

Best of luck to you in the coming year.
Posted by: BobH

Re: Building an Arsenal - 01/07/11 07:53 AM

Originally Posted By: CoachJim
Start off with it with no weight hole and left in out of box dull before you do anything to it and see how you like it. If I was able to bowl I would have 3 or 4 of them by now, so it is a good ball.
Drill it fairly strong with a 4" pin to pap and keep it closer to the val like about 20 to 30 degrees this will give you a better reaction on the back end and get the ball into a heavier roll when it hits the friction. Put the mb between 45 and 60 degrees from your pap this will help keep the ball aggressive at the break point.

Let me know how you like it.


Well, don't know the specifics other than 4" and Pin Down. But, let me tell you that I went on the Lane from Hell (End Lane; no league bowling... only open) and after a game of test driving, I was able to use this ball to carve a nice line in an otherwise unshootable condition. I was able to stand 23, roll 9 out to 3, and the ball held the line and rolled up with a strong arc. If I was a little lazy on the release, it would leave 10's. Into the 3rd game I was able to switch to my No Limit (see description above) and roll the original line with the breakpoint coming a little further down the lane. So, the 3 scoring games were 650.

It's nice to have options! thumbsup

ETA: Will have to have weight hole installed. Supposedly it's 15/16's right now, and my Driller would like to add a hole to measure it down a little to keep it firmly in the "safe zone". But he wanted me to roll it a bit to see what shape I would like accentuated.
Posted by: Hunter

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/20/11 10:47 AM

If this thread were to be updated for today's balls instead of 2008, would it look something like this? Using balls mentioned on this site mostly...

Heavy oil: Storm VG Nano, DV8 Hell Raiser, RG Critical Theory Brunswick Nexus f(p+f)/Alpha

Medium oil: Storm Frantic, Storm 2Furious, Brunswick Revolver, Ebonite Mission, DV8 Reckless

Light oil to very dry: Storm Reign Supreme, Brunswick Slingshot, Roto Grip Riot, Storm Tropical Heat

And a SPARE ball smile




Does this pretty much sum it up for the "more common" balls talked about here?
Posted by: vgnano420

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/20/11 12:34 PM

4 out of over 20 brands doesn't really sum it up. Most bowling ball websites all have the ability to focus your search to a particular lane condition. I don't know why you posted this?
Posted by: Hunter

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/20/11 12:42 PM

I was looking to see if a new list, containing newer gear could be created. CoachJim's phenomenal original post was for equipment out in 2008, and the rest of the thread is full of great information. Based on the balls on Jim's list, or a new list, I can learn about the science and why they are for certain conditions.

I only posted some of the brands that I most frequently see people talking about. I'm aware there are many other companies and brands, but I am not familiar with them nor read about them enough. Feel free to elaborate and include other equipment.

I'm trying to educate myself, learn more about the game and equipment, and threads like these really do a good job for self-study purposes.

Sorry you feel it was a waste of your time.
Posted by: Kitten Latch

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/21/11 07:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Hunterx
If this thread were to be updated for today's balls instead of 2008, would it look something like this? Using balls mentioned on this site mostly...

Heavy oil: Storm VG Nano, DV8 Hell Raiser, RG Critical Theory Brunswick Nexus f(p+f)/Alpha

Medium oil: Storm Frantic, Storm 2Furious, Brunswick Revolver, Ebonite Mission, DV8 Reckless

Light oil to very dry: Storm Reign Supreme, Brunswick Slingshot, Roto Grip Riot, Storm Tropical Heat

And a SPARE ball smile




Does this pretty much sum it up for the "more common" balls talked about here?


Compare the Storm Frantic and the Reign Supreme. wink

You've put the Frantic in medium, which is pretty correct. But when the look at the Reign Supreme's specs, they have: the same coverstock and the same box finish. Remember cover stock is 50-60% of the ball's reaction. These two bowling balls will have a fairly similar reaction (Reign Supreme will go just a little longer), and part of building an arsenal is having a wide range of reactions.

Storm Tropical Breeze instead of heat in light oil, mission to heavy oil, remove reign supreme and you've a basic list there (obviously there's more than storm/roto grip, ebonite and brunswick ;P)
Posted by: Hunter

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/21/11 12:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Kitten Latch
Compare the Storm Frantic and the Reign Supreme. wink

You've put the Frantic in medium, which is pretty correct. But when the look at the Reign Supreme's specs, they have: the same coverstock and the same box finish. Remember cover stock is 50-60% of the ball's reaction. These two bowling balls will have a fairly similar reaction (Reign Supreme will go just a little longer), and part of building an arsenal is having a wide range of reactions.


This is such a coincidence. I bowled with someone last night who had a Reign Supreme and it had a lot more backend than a video I saw online last week.

Good tip on the coverstock being responsible for about 50%-60% of the balls reaction. I guess the core would account for 10%, the bowler's contribution another 20% and then percentages for the sanded finish on the ball and RG?
Posted by: Hunter

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/21/11 12:52 PM

I just purchased a Brunswick Apha-Max to go with my Slingshot. Now I will need a medium ball next.

I am anxious to find someone who has a HyRoad or Frantic in my alley.

There's no reason for me to be Pro-Brunswick, I think their website was just more appealing and easier to navigate when I bought my first ball, the Slingshot.
Posted by: tenpin09

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/06/12 08:55 PM

First time poster, so I figured it would be better to ask this question in here rather than creating a brand new thread. As of right now, the balls I own are the Cherry Vibe and the Victory Road (and a spare ball, of course, but it doesn't really matter to the situation lol). I'm looking to add to my arsenal, and I desperately need something that will give me more hook on a freshly oiled lane. I can either get the DV8 Hell Raiser Revenge AND Misfit (the Misfit is thrown in with the Hell Raiser Revenge at my local pro shop), OR any other ball (most likely the Modern Marvel). I guess my main question is, what do all you guys recommend? It appears as if the Victory Road and the Misfit are very similar, will the Misfit offer anything that the Victory Road doesn't? Which do you think will serve a tweener better, the Hell Raiser Revenge or the Modern Marvel?
Posted by: dgordon0408

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/06/12 09:43 PM

actually the misfit is supposed to be a weaker ball but i feel it starts up earlier than the victory road as most entry level balls do, i think that the hell raiser revenge would be a good fit, and i think that the misfit could go under your vroad and above your cherry vibe, i think by changing drillings you could have a pretty good arsenal, what you could do is mess with the surfaces and drillings to get a very complete arsenal, i think you would be set, i think you should eventually get a ball above the vroad but below the revenge, maybe the modern marvel or even a marvel solid, i think that would give you a very complete arsenal
Posted by: tenpin09

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/11/12 09:37 PM

Thanks for the input. My friend hooked me up with a free Hell Raiser that I'm gonna try out. Excited to see how it rolls for me. It will certainly help with my decision.
Posted by: chowder

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/14/12 02:22 AM

my arsenal is.. nexxus purple, game change, sigma hybrid, frantic, hyroad, qz1, recon, then spare ball... is this a good arsenal?
Posted by: Smooth Stroker

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/14/12 10:46 PM

In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, you have bowling ball overload. For me, the Nexxus is fine at the top for heavy oil. The Game Change and the Sigma Hybrid cover the exact same oil condition. To me, carrying 8 balls around all the time is way too much. Just not necessary. I would get leave one of those at home. The Frantic and the Hyroad cover the exact same condition. They almost have the exact same specs. Leave one at home. For League I would go like this

Nexxus
Frantic
QZ1
Spare

Tourny
Nexxus
Sigma Hybrid
Frantic
QZ1
Recon
Spare

I don't think there is ever a need for more than 4 balls during league. Learn to play more than one line. Be able to play inside or outside and there is little need for 8 balls during league. I never used more than 2 balls during a typical league night, not counting my spare ball. I would use one ball until I thought I couldn't score effectively with it anymore, no matter where I played it on the lanes. If the only issue is carry, I can change that myself. The only concern I have is hitting the pocket. If I can hit the pocket on a regular basis then I can strike. I just have to find the right angle of entry. Usually I use one ball for the whole night. I usually start with the strongest ball I can use on a particular night and shell down if necessary.
Posted by: cole

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/08/12 10:43 PM

i have trouble on building an arsenal i have the roto grip defiant and critical theory and a storm frantic thanks
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/09/12 05:44 AM

That seems like a fairly decent arsenal for just starting out. Judging from the videos you posted, I think you would be better off spending your money on lessons than more equipment. Find a good coach in your area and start working on your game. Post back if you have specific questions.
Posted by: who's that

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/11/12 09:32 PM

Summer league arsenal..
-L/M Buzz Attack (light/short oil/spare ball)
-L/M Sting Widow Maker (medium long) pin down.. Sits in bag all night..
-Motiv Raptor P7 (medium heavy/heavy) Gets 75% of league...
-Motiv Raptor Attack (medium/heavy) Great ball for transition..

Tournament arsenal.. (In addition to everything above)
-Motiv Cruel (medium)
-L/M Extreme Damage (medium short)
-Track spare ball

FALL LEAGUE ADDITION
-2 Cruel
Posted by: forhuskers

Re: Building an Arsenal - 07/15/12 03:39 PM

Hello all

I'm hoping to get an opinion of my current arsenal (All are OOB):

Brunswick Alpha-Max
Storm Hy-Road (Benchmark ball)
Storm Victory Road
Columbia 300 Burst
Columbia 300 White Dot
Assorted 80's-90's urethane/reactive such as Blue Hammer, Columbia 300 Cuda/C, Piranha C, Power Torq, etc (All in a closet at home)

What gaps are there that you can see? I don't know my speed, RPM, etc. I would call myself a power tweener. I bowled for a lot of years, took a 10 year break, and started up again two years ago before breaking my ankle halfway through the season It's like I've had to learn to bowl all over again. I was a stroker years ago. Currently averaging around 190.

The conditioner on the lanes I bowl on doesn't really break down, it carries down. The bowlers in my two leagues range from 215 average to 110 averages. It's a small town with older wood lanes and pin setters that were purchased used a few years ago. Generally oiled to 41 feet, can range from medium to heavy in a normal house shot pattern. I think a big key is that there are all types of shots thrown from crankers to backup balls, so the oil is carried down all over the place.

Let me know if you would need any more info to make a recommendation. I've been looking at the Brunswick versa-max but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be too close too the Hy-road.
Posted by: mail777

Re: Building an Arsenal - 08/18/12 01:42 PM

hi there. i have question about arsenal.
i have hammer taboo (old version 2000 abraion on it)
marvel pearl (just buy it never used, still dont drill. i think to drill it above pin and make it 4000 abraion and polish. ) i [censored] this ball for my benchmark
frantic (it drilled too strong i think i cant use it, our lanes are too dry for i think. i want to redrill it with pin down and for less hook, and 4000abraion and polish)
all above are 16pound.
and old 15pound ebonite charge for dry lanes.(not my ball my friend gave it tome. i cant feel good on this ball because its 15lb. )

i dont know my rev or speed here there is no place to measure them.
i can say that i like to play outside like norm duke or PA.
i am left handed and use two hand with no tumb. i can say that my rev is more than anybody i can see around. but i dont want to play inside. i am more confident when i play outside.
can you help me for my arsenal and drilling layout.

and one last question is there a rule that a ball must have at least 3 hole?
my taboo has 2 hole and i am happy with it.

for now i use taboo for my benchmarkball and have 195 on league.
i can say not benchmark just a taboo and spare ball.
i cant use frantic because of its stupid drill.
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 08/19/12 08:17 AM

Per USBC equipment specifications, a ball can have just 2 holes:
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/...pecs-manual.pdf

Some general suggestions:
- One of the most important things is to make sure your ball fits properly. Find a good pro shop that will work with you. It is an essential first step.

- Become familiar with the Dual Angle drilling technique, and select at least one strong, medium, and weak layout to help match up to different conditions.
http://www.morichbowling.com/Education/Drilling.aspx

- Consider subscribing to Bowling This Month magazine for detailed information about various bowling balls. Each month's magazine is also available online. Ball Talk is available for previous years via download.
http://www.bowlingthismonth.com/

- If you can find a local coach that is familiar with two-handed technique, that would be great. Or, if you can post a video here, that would be helpful. There are lots of folks willing to help with identifying areas of improvement for your form.

- Understand that the lanes will tell you where to play them. Sometimes it is outside. Other times it is inside. Pattern length and other characteristics will usually determine the best angle of attack. It is up to the bowler to read their ball reaction and adjust.

Welcome to the forum and happy bowling.
Posted by: mail777

Re: Building an Arsenal - 08/26/12 01:42 AM

i reply this on the other topic but i want to ask you one more question.
you said and i also think the same the lane tell us where to play but i never see parker bohn 3 or patrick allen or ryan cminelli play inside...

they always on the outside.. what are their strategies? i want to stay outside aspossible as i can. thats is why we build arsenal to beat down the lane.
i ask can i resurface the balls and drill them low flare and change them inside the game and use always outside?
Posted by: metguy

Re: Building an Arsenal - 08/26/12 10:31 AM

Originally Posted By: mail777
i reply this on the other topic but i want to ask you one more question.
you said and i also think the same the lane tell us where to play but i never see parker bohn 3 or patrick allen or ryan cminelli play inside...

they always on the outside.. what are their strategies? i want to stay outside aspossible as i can. thats is why we build arsenal to beat down the lane.
i ask can i resurface the balls and drill them low flare and change them inside the game and use always outside?



Lets break this question down into parts, then you decide.

The lane tells you where to play. If you know the length of the oil pattern and subtract 31, you get the best spot for where you want your ball to exit the oil. For the pattern you are on, this will give you the most forgiveness.

Most straighter bowlers need entry angle to strike (though i seriously question this :)) so they will push that forgiveness area to the outside as much as they can. It would give the illusion they are playing the same line always when that may not be the case. Remember, just because they are hitting second arrow doesn't mean their ball is breaking at 10 board always. They are moving their breakpoint around a few boards and using their arsonal smartly. For shorter patterns, they are getting out towards the gutter a few boards more and for longer patterns they are keeping it a little tighter a few boards EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY STILL BE HITTING THE SAME SPOT AT THE ARROWS.

For a THS, the pattern will be +/- a couple feet at the most and probably very likely the same distance every week. This is where knowing your equipment gives you an advantage. Kegel White pattern is 40 feet so you are now thinking i have to exit at 9 board. One problem though, after the first few feet, outside 9 board is DRY.

So, you pull out your new solid reactive ball and decide to play straight up 9 board. If you miss outside (towards the gutter) your ball hooks up on the dry lane and by the time it gets down the lane it is dead, no hook left, all its energy is spent. Or, you decide to move in a little and play 11 board out to 9, keeping the ball in the oil trying to reserve the balls energy for downlane hook. But, you just can't quite get the ball to make it back to the pocket for strikes. Hmm, what to do now? What ball are you using again? Oh yeah, a new solid reactive ball. And it won't play inside, even a little bit? Go back outside and pull out a ball that isn't so strong (cover wise), like a 4000 grit polished pearl. Now, do the same thing you just did with the solid reactive. What did that do? Maybe need to take the polish off of it and go just with the 4000. Try it again. It's nice when you have them already prepped and ready to go, just grab it out of the bag and bowl. Not always possible, sometimes they throw one heck of a curveball at ya (like out of bounds).

On a THS that you'll see in leagues, i'm not a big fan of mixing up your layouts for how you have your balls drilled. In some cases, yes, not for most it's just not needed. Find the reaction you like in a ball and change cover strengths. The more inside you like to play, the stronger your grits could be but an outside line bowler would best be served staying high in the grits, no more than 2500-3000 at the lowest.

There is no oil made that won't breakdown on you, sooner or later you will need to adjust. Maybe you can go all three games or maybe not, but knowing your baseline ball dynamics will serve you well when making that move.
Posted by: champ

Re: Building an Arsenal - 08/26/12 01:02 PM

My opinion on the matter of where to play the lanes...

1) If your main goal is to be a good league bowler, and you don't bowl too many different places, and the conditions are similar every week, you can probably get away with mastering one area of the lane. You can focus on buying equipment with weaker covers and cores, and using weaker layouts to keep you outside as much as possible.

2) If you want to enter the realm of tournament bowling, you'll need to be more versatile if you want to succeed. Some patterns just can't be played that successfully (or at all) from an outside line. As for the guys you mentioned who you've never seen playing inside...I'm sure they can and do when they need to in order to make money and place well, and when they are in situations that allow them to play to their strength, they show up on tv, and that's when you see them.

3) I hear a lot of people get hung up on learning to play different area of the lane, or using different hand positions, as though its a completely different thing. Try changing you mentality. Playing fourth arrow, and playing first arrow aren't completely different things; if the lanes are telling you to be there, you simply line up with your target, projects the ball toward your breakpoint, and let the pattern steer the ball. Sure the angle is different, but the physical motions aren't.

4) Consider your style. (I believe I've read you're a two hander) The two handed style is the ultimate in today's power game. It produces more speed, maximum revs, and as such is prone to the inside line. If you want to play outside, this style of delivery may always fight you. I'm not knocking the style, just saying it might not be best suited for what you style is.
Posted by: mail777

Re: Building an Arsenal - 08/26/12 03:13 PM

thanks for the replies.. they help my progress.
and also you are right..
novadays i read a lot about drilling..
i think first of all i must find my drilling layout that fits my style.

and then i will begin to focus on surfaces.
i mentioned before we dont have any good proshop or a bowler who knows tecnical details.
i want to become a bowler and i want to do it proper.. knowing the details.
thats why i read every topic in these forum.

i asked this another topic.
can i use frantic like vibe.
i mean i cant buy vibe or the same power ball now. we dont have a place that sells 16lb balls.

i want to build an arsenal like that.
taboo 2000 with polish
marvel pearl 4000 polish
frantic 4000 polish with low track drll. maybe pin down.
powergroove 2000 no polish or maybe 1000?
spare ball (i use this only 7pin. all the other i use strike ball.)

how is it ?
i can buy a ball when i go usa. what kind of ball i must to supply my arsenal.

i want to be a pro bowler. not a league bowler. thats why i care too much attention on my arsenal..

i bowled for 1year and my avarage is 195 for now.
but it begin to rise..
Posted by: charliexx

Re: Building an Arsenal - 09/23/12 04:05 PM

What should be my in-between ball layout now or my third ball in the bag

PAP: 5 inch Horizontal 1 Inch Up


Storm Vivid - 55 Degrees / 4 1/2 Pin to PAP / 40 degrees
Brunswick Nexxxus - 45 Degrees / 4 Pin to PAP / 55 Degrees
Posted by: champ

Re: Building an Arsenal - 09/23/12 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: charliexx
What should be my in-between ball layout now or my third ball in the bag

Storm Vivid
Brunswick Nexxxus


You currently have two very strong pieces of equipment. Unless you are bowling on a very heavy oil pattern, you will want a ball in the "benchmark" category, and one for drier lanes when they break down. Balls like the storm Hy-Road or Crossroad might be great becnhmark balls, and equipment like the Columbia Freeze, Storm Tropical Breeze, or Hammer Vibe would be good to look at for the drier lane balls. Lower end equipment should be used much more frequently than higher end equipment, because oil patterns that call for such aggressive equipment aren't that common.

All of this of course comes with the sidenote of: no ball will overcome delivery flaws. For ever dollar you spend on bowling balls, another ten dollars should be spend on practice and coaching.
Posted by: metguy

Re: Building an Arsenal - 09/23/12 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: champ


All of this of course comes with the sidenote of: no ball will overcome delivery flaws. For ever dollar you spend on bowling balls, another ten dollars should be spend on practice and coaching.



You know, bowling is a tricky sport. The fact one person can score really well with a ball others can't score with, The fact one bowler can score really well at a specific ball speed when others (at that speed) can't, The fact one bowler can carry the corner pins when others can't should raise an eyebrow or two.

When talking "Baselines", well, baseline IS the name of the game. Baseline hand position, baseline ball path, baseline ball speed, baseline axis tilt and rotation, baseline ball reaction.

The best arsonal is one where your equipment has the ability to overlap to some degree. NO HOLES. Norm Duke said that Professional Bowlers are the best in the world at changing their ball speed. Ever wonder why they put so much emphasis on that? Or, how much practice time they've spent developing that ability?

By changing ball speed, that in itself gives you a different look, while using the same ball. Slower, more midlane read. Faster, easier path to the breakpoint. Of course, your entry angles still have to be there but that isn't ball speed as much as ball choice. It's not enough to simply chose a variety of balls, you need to know the intended reaction of the layout. It's not enough to simply chose a variety of layouts, they need to match up to the ball and your style.

I wish someone would come up with a graph to go off of, but so far we are left to our own "best guess". In the CNC world, we have slide scales. X amount of RPM's by X size drill equals optimal Feed Speed. Still, nobody (in their right mind) would try and feed a drill into stainless steel like they would aluminum. So, other factors are present. Bowling is the same thing, OIL LENGTH and STRENGTH (resistance).

You can get pretty much any ball to the pocket, but it's pretty obvious that isn't good enough. don't matter how hard you try, it just won't carry. On the flipside, you can put a ball anywhere near the pocket and it will carry. This is when you know you're getting close to figuring something out that works for YOU. Simple fact, you will never get to that point by throwing the same strength equipment. You have to have a wide variety and you need to learn to read the lane QUICKER. That takes time, time you have spending on practice..
Posted by: NaSTI

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/17/12 04:44 AM

Need some suggestions on my arsenal. I dont want to buy another ball, just want to work with what I got since im only bowling leagues on a THS currently.

IQ Tour - OOB 4000
Storm Triple X Factor - 500/1000 + polish
Storm Frantic - 4000
Storm Tropical Heat Pearl - OOB

I want to keep the OOB condition on my IQ Tour as is. The rest I would like some suggestions on surface changes to build my arsenal. Can I do so just by altering different grits and/or polish? What would you gurus suggest? I am open to resurfacing the rest of my equipment, and dont really know the best route to go. Thx in advance!
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/17/12 08:05 AM

NaSTI, the answer depends a lot on the lane conditions you bowl, the layouts on your equipment, cores, covers, your speed, revs, etc. Combining all of the variables can be tricky. I worked this out, once and for all, for myself and posted my strategy here. The link is http://www.bowlingcommunity.com/b/ubbthreads.php/topics/172968/4_Ball_Arsenal_Specs.html#Post172968

I have further simplified my stratgey by choosing one simple, optimimum layout. It is the same for all my equipment, symmetrical or asymmetrical. It places the Pin 3-3/8 inches from my PAP, and 6-3/4 inches from the center of my thumbhole. The thumb is then drilled through the mass bias marker. This layout produces near maximum flare for each ball. The goal is then to choose balls with different flare potential, in the range of 3-4", 4-5", 5-6", to ensure a varied arsenal.
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/18/12 05:59 AM

Also, I would not recommend changing the layout on a ball once it is drilled. Small changes to span and pitches are okay. But, once you have drilled into the core, you have effectively changed its shape. Ball plug is a uniform density so it cannot match the original multiple densities of cover, filler, and core. And, it has its own hardness and surface friction characteristics. That is especially important if the ball is likely to roll over one of the plugged holes. I'm all for experimenting, but be aware that significantly changing the layout (ex: Pin up to Rico drilling) can produce unpredictable or misleading results. It is much better to decide on the layout first before drilling a ball.
Posted by: NaSTI

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/18/12 06:53 AM

Thanks again Joe Bowler, as all the other advice you have given me. Yeah your arsenal makes complete sense. Since you are taking away alot of variables, leaving it left to only flare potential of a ball and/or Rg rating will help alot. Then when youre in transition you will only need to reach in the bag for longer and longer equipment. Now I need to get more balls! Lol...but yes I completely understand your method of having the same layout, same cover surface and just let the flare potential decrease or increase when you need to make a switch.
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 12/18/12 04:17 PM

Actually, the suggested 4-ball arsenal in the link above includes several variables: coverstock, surface prep, RG value, Diff value, MB value. All of the suggested values are different, not just the desired track flare. The reason for the differences is they each have an effect on hook shape as well as total hook. The goal is to match them up to provide the most effective combinations.

Personally, I have found success using only one layout, and allowing the characteristics of each ball to provide different reactions. And, depending on the lane conditions where I am bowling, I will sometimes do the same with surface prep, and take all of my equipment to 4000/polished, when the additional friction from sanding is not required.
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/03/13 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
Also, I would not recommend changing the layout on a ball once it is drilled. Small changes to span and pitches are okay. But, once you have drilled into the core, you have effectively changed its shape. Ball plug is a uniform density so it cannot match the original multiple densities of cover, filler, and core.


Seems we agree on some things, JB. I've still got a couple re-drills I obtained used but I'm working to phase them out. For example, I got my Mission off ebay, it was originally pin-up, I had it plugged and drilled pin-down. Who knows what RG or differential the ball really has anymore? I like the ball but if I had to replace it with something new, the same layout might just act a whole lot different (even on say, a Mission X which should be close to equivalent besides cover). Also, a ball with no plugs just seems to roll more true and hit better for me, all other things being equal. I don't concern myself with surface hardness of the plug and so on since I won't allow a plug to be in my track and neither should anyone's pro shop, still... I'm over re-drills.

I kind of blinked when I saw your strategy of using the same layout on all your gear but when it sunk in I saw the logic in it. My strategy is different... I tend to ask my pro shop to lay out a ball according to it's strength.

When I bought my Reign I was looking for something to retain a lot of energy, so I had it drilled pin up. I did the same with my Roto Grip Bandit, and have the Berserk laid out about the same to work for me when I want the same shape but a little more traction. Likewise if I was shopping for something like a Violent Eruption I'm sure I'd go pin-up.

On the other hand when I bought my Mission I wanted something "rolly" that would pick up earlier, I had it re-drilled pin-down and I keep it at 1000 Abralon with a light touch of 2000.

These work for me but your strategy is interesting and I'm going to give it some thought.
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Building an Arsenal - 02/03/13 08:44 PM

Sounds good, Rick. "The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways." Knowing yourself, your game, your equipment, your lane play strategy, etc., will all benefit your improvement as a bowler. One question to ask yourself is what was unique about those times that you rolled your honor scores. For example, what were the lane conditions? What ball/surface/layout did you use? Where were you standing? Once you accumulate enough of these experiences, you will likely see patterns that will help you understand even more clearly what works best for you in a variety of circumstances.
Posted by: bigcall

Re: Building an Arsenal - 04/30/13 10:08 PM

What are the characteristics of a benchmark ball?

My sense is that it's not something on the high end, but rather something in the middle of the road that you can adjust from.

I currently have 3 balls that I'm using:

Rotogrip Dagger - more or less what I consider a benchmark but not sure if it truly qualifies
Rotogrip Mutant Cell Pearl - for more oil
AMF Angle - dry and for spares (OK, I know it's ancient)

Was thinking I might need to expand the arsenal and go with a pure plastic ball for spares or something more this century than the Angle?
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/01/13 01:59 PM

Originally Posted By: bigcall
What are the characteristics of a benchmark ball?

Rotogrip Dagger - more or less what I consider a benchmark but not sure if it truly qualifies


The idea of the Nomad Dagger as a benchmark ball works for me. Hybrid cover in the mid-performance category, medium RG (although on the high side of medium). If anything it's got a little more diff than I'd tend to choose for a benchmark ball but that is fine. Unless it has a wonky layout, you've got a good benchmark ball there IMO.
Posted by: bigcall

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/01/13 03:23 PM

I'm looking to replace the Angle for drier lanes.

Looking at Roto Grip Scream or Hammer Grape Vibe.

Any thoughts on either one?
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/02/13 07:36 AM

Both look good. I have a Roto Grip Shout (same core as Scream but solid cover), it's a great ball. Ignores the heads and much of the midlane, but still smooth in the back ends.
Posted by: bigcall

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/13/13 05:10 PM

Still pondering the less oil ball selection. Saw the video posted last week on the Motiv Tank and wondered how that or another urethane ball compares to the Scream/Shout or Vibe for that matter?
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Building an Arsenal - 05/13/13 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: bigcall
Still pondering the less oil ball selection. Saw the video posted last week on the Motiv Tank and wondered how that or another urethane ball compares to the Scream/Shout or Vibe for that matter?


I can compare/contrast the Shout to the solid Storm Natural, so happens I was just practicing with them today.

I was hoping to play pretty close to the ditch (short pattern being used for the next two weeks in the sport shot league, at a different house). No idea what they had put out on that lane but I was able to play out to 3 or 4 at the arrows with the Natural (normally impossible for me without doing something drastic to ball speed and hand release).

The last game I decided to switch to the Shout. I rolled the first one at the same alignment and it held pocket, but I could tell it didn't want to. I moved in to 6 at the arrows, much better (with the Natural it would have been very difficult to carry from 6, I really wish I knew what I was bowling on!)

The layouts and surface are both different, but the thing that strikes me most is the difference in shape. The urethane ball seems to hook early which to my eyes looks like it will be a bad thing, but then it just sets up and goes in at a milder angle than the reactive ball. Meanwhile the Shout is still very predictable when it does make it's move, and has more recovery. I like them both, I would say that I want the urethane when I'm trying to grind out a 200ish score on difficult conditions, where the Shout is (at least in my hands) more capable of keeping up with a higher scoring environment when the lanes are tough but not TOO tough. Not to say one can't throw up big numbers with urethane, if it matches up well you sure can.
Posted by: Bobforsaken

Re: Building an Arsenal - 09/04/14 11:16 PM

I'm attempting to build a Bowling ball arsenal. I'm a new bowler only really playing on a 42" house shot. I'm more of a stroker that may break 300 RPM's on a good day. (estimate only). I currently have a Ebonite Cyclone, IQ Tour Fusion, and Optimus. They are all 15lbs and have the OOB finish. They are also all drilled for length with near maximum flare. My issue/question is that they all seem to work the same. If I find a good line for the current lane conditions with the Fusion, I can take out the optimus and play the same line or vice versa. I've actually thrown Turkeys with same line alternating balls. Are these balls just too similar to be effective with current OOB surface? Is it my Rev Rate masking the differences in the balls? Should I expect this out of a House shot?
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Building an Arsenal - 09/06/14 07:55 AM

Bowling ball performance can be confusing. I've often found that weaker bowling balls will cover MORE boards than stronger bowling balls, depending on lane condition.

Without being there it's difficult to say what's happening. It's possible that you're playing "in the dirt", meaning mostly in the dry boards. Any reactive ball is going to find plenty of friction (and early friction) in that case. Where performance bowling balls really show their differences IMO is heavy oil, which you may never see if you only play the THS and play 2nd arrow and outside of it. In other words, on a dry lane both my UpRoar and Defiant Soul see plenty of friction, and the UpRoar is cleaner through the fronts so it can hook more in back. Put the same two balls on a heavy condition, the Defiant Soul is able to read the midlane and hook, while the polished UpRoar just skids thru the pin deck.

Again it's tough to say what you're experiencing but these are just ideas I'm throwing out.

The other problem here is, the Fusion and Optimus are actually pretty close in overall hook potential. The Cyclone is really a medium-oil ball, has the cover off The One which was Ebonite's heavy-oil ball not that many years ago, and has a pretty strong core too... so it's not all that far behind the others in hook potential (not as much as one might think, anyways). With one medium-oil ball and two medium-to-heavy bowling balls, you're not going to see a lot of separation in your arsenal, rather lots of overlap.
Posted by: goneal32

Re: Building an Arsenal - 09/17/14 10:26 AM

I am also building an arsenal, I currently have a Hyper Cell drilled 4x4x2 for heavy oil, I have a Optimus as a benchmark ball that I have not drilled yet, I have a Motiv Ascent Apex for dryer conditions, also not yet drilled, and a White Dot for spares..My question is, how should I drill the Optimus and the Ascent? The Hyper Cell works great on fresh with 4x4x2, do I do the same pattern hoping I have a decent choice of balls and I wouldn't have any overlap with the same drill pattern, or maybe something different? I mainly bowl on 42' house patterns. Is my ball selection ok, too?
Posted by: Rob Mautner

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/29/16 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: goneal32
I am also building an arsenal, I currently have a Hyper Cell drilled 4x4x2 for heavy oil, I have a Optimus as a benchmark ball that I have not drilled yet, I have a Motiv Ascent Apex for dryer conditions, also not yet drilled, and a White Dot for spares..My question is, how should I drill the Optimus and the Ascent? The Hyper Cell works great on fresh with 4x4x2, do I do the same pattern hoping I have a decent choice of balls and I wouldn't have any overlap with the same drill pattern, or maybe something different? I mainly bowl on 42' house patterns. Is my ball selection ok, too?


Based on the core numbers and the surface materials, I think that you will find the the Hyper Cell will actually be your middle (benchmark) ball, with the Optimus being more for heavier conditions and the Ascent Apex for drier conditions. Your 4X4X2 drilling is pretty strong, and is a good layout for most medium rev/medium speed bowlers. I would recommend sticking with the same layout for all of the balls so that you can see the actual differences between them which makes on-the-fly ball change adjustments much easier. You can also adjust the surfaces to move them further apart or closer together.

Your ball selection is OK, however at some point you might want to add something between the two more aggressive balls and the less aggressive ball. Something like a Storm Sky Rocket would fit nicely, I think.
Posted by: bigcall

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/29/16 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: bigcall
What are the characteristics of a benchmark ball?

My sense is that it's not something on the high end, but rather something in the middle of the road that you can adjust from.

I currently have 3 balls that I'm using:

Rotogrip Dagger - more or less what I consider a benchmark but not sure if it truly qualifies
Rotogrip Mutant Cell Pearl - for more oil
AMF Angle - dry and for spares (OK, I know it's ancient)

Was thinking I might need to expand the arsenal and go with a pure plastic ball for spares or something more this century than the Angle?


Interesting to look back on this thread now.

I went with the Scream as my low oil shot and spare ball although I still usually tote the Angle to the lanes (it usually stays in the car) in a separate joey just in case the lanes are really burned up.

My Nomad Dagger has been replaced by a Storm Hy-Road Solid these days (only have room for 3 balls). Again maybe not a true benchmark ball, but it seems to work well for me thus far.
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/30/16 09:16 AM

Don't put too much stock in the slighter higher RG of the Hyper Cell. Until very recently the Hyper Cell (solid) was the top, top shelf ball in Roto Grip's line. It has a ton of differential and about as strong a coverstock as Roto has put on a ball. Also with a strong mass bias number it's going to want to transition pretty fast. Strong ball.

Meanwhile the original Optimus (pearl) IS lower in RG, but doesn't have that super-strong cover or core asymmetry. Less diff, too. If anything IMO that cover can be over/under on a heavier condition. Optimus solid is a different animal, it didn't seem to go over too well but I'm not sure why.

Optimus wouldn't be my FIRST choice for a benchmark ball (I like a mid-range hybrid or solid for this slot, myself) but as a medium-heavy kind of ball it's not bad either. It comes polished but actually seems to work great with some surface too, don't be afraid to experiment!

Originally Posted By: Rob Mautner


Based on the core numbers and the surface materials, I think that you will find the the Hyper Cell will actually be your middle (benchmark) ball, with the Optimus being more for heavier conditions and the Ascent Apex for drier conditions. Your 4X4X2 drilling is pretty strong, and is a good layout for most medium rev/medium speed bowlers. I would recommend sticking with the same layout for all of the balls so that you can see the actual differences between them which makes on-the-fly ball change adjustments much easier. You can also adjust the surfaces to move them further apart or closer together.
Posted by: Rob Mautner

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/30/16 09:29 PM

A lot depends on the bowler's style. Lower speed, lower rev players have to look at the low RG to get the ball down the lane. Higher speed, higher rev players look more to the surface friction and less to the RG. I wrote an article for BTM a few months ago, called "The Spaces Between," and it explains how to figure out what is important for your style.
Posted by: David170

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/31/16 07:02 AM

Storm Hy Road 173, Tropical Heat 167, Polar Ice 120, Bronco spare ball 0, Roto Grip Scream 139.

The numbers on the end are the perfect scale rating. I throw the ball about 13.5 mph so why the HyRoad is on top. Most night's on a THS I use the tropical or the scream.

http://www.bowlingball.com/info/perfect_scale.html
Posted by: Rob Mautner

Re: Building an Arsenal - 03/31/16 07:23 PM

IMHO, the Perfect Scale is only "perfect" for those bowlers who are afraid to learn about bowling ball specifics: cover, surface, core, and layouts. Taking the time and effort to learn will make your ball choices, and your ball change adjustments so much more effective.