Hammer "Black Widow Urethane"

Posted by: nord

Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 11/21/17 04:30 PM


Well it looks like Hammer answered my wish, to put the Gasmask core in a strong surface urethane ball.

I am excited about this release.
Now we will have a urethane hook monster!

Ultra low RG (2.50), Ultra high diff (.058) and a strong cover.
Early, heavy, smooth roll through the soup is my hope.
Something you get can lined up with and own the lane.

Thoughts on this new urethane ball?

BLACK WIDOW URETHANE
In the 1980’s, Hammer was known as “Faball Enterprises” and was the industry leader in urethane technology and performance.
Over the past few years, we have gone back to our roots and brought back the Black and Purple Pearl Urethane.
Hammer is excited to bring this same trusted urethane formula to the Black Widow line and wrap it around our most iconic core.
This combination will give you more overall hook than traditional urethane while maintaining the predictability that a urethane coverstock provides.
Posted by: champ

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 11/21/17 05:16 PM

I thought of you first Nord when they announced this one.

This ball, along with the Roto Grip Hot Cell, is proof to me that the major manufacturers are starting to get it. For years they've been producing urethane only as their light oil ball. That gave you a weak cover, and a weak core and generally bad carry.

Now they're stepping up to modern demands. Give me a large, big flaring core, so I can create some entry angle and have some hit while still using slow response covers.

I think these balls are going to be major factors in major tournaments soon.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 11/22/17 12:35 AM

Originally Posted By: champ
I thought of you first Nord when they announced this one.

This ball, along with the Roto Grip Hot Cell, is proof to me that the major manufacturers are starting to get it. For years they've been producing urethane only as their light oil ball. That gave you a weak cover, and a weak core and generally bad carry.

Now they're stepping up to modern demands. Give me a large, big flaring core, so I can create some entry angle and have some hit while still using slow response covers.

I think these balls are going to be major factors in major tournaments soon.

Totally agree! Finally the manufacturers are getting it.
For guys like myself who have an old school release with low revs and a full roll, reactive simply doesn't do anything for me except disappoint me.
But when I can use strong urethane then I can feel confident.

I am excited about the Black Widow urethane because on the dry Poway lanes I have used the polyester Widow Spare with a strong drilling to great effect.
The Widow Spare with its super strong, early rolling high flaring core and slow response cover make for a very hard hitting ball with excellent control of the pocket.
I am thinking on normal, higher volume house shots, the same core in urethane will be a formidable combination.

I already have my ball on order and my driller thinks he can have it for me next week. Will let you know how it does and try to make a video showing the reaction.

Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 11/27/17 06:07 PM

Keep me updated Nord! I plan on getting one! If I do ill make a video as well! It will be interesting to see how it works with radically different styles
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/03/17 04:05 PM



Hello All,

I would like to share my review of the new Hammer Black Widow Urethane bowling ball.

The Short Review: Wow, wow, wow, wow!!!

The Long Review:

I think over the years you have all become familiar with me and my style. To summarize, I am a low rev, low ball speed Full Roller. I have zero tilt and a 90 degree axis rotation. I have tried a lot of balls over the years and never really found one that perfectly suited my style. Because of the way I roll the ball, I have been kinda stuck in the middle of where I want to be. Balls that provide the control that I need usually do not have carry power for me and ones that have the carry power usually do not provide control. As a result my average stays about the same, in the 170’s.

A while back I think I posted on this forum that I was using the Widow Spare on the Poway dry with good success. This early and heavy rolling Gas Mask core I thought would be the perfect core for a urethane ball. In my opinion and the opinion of others, urethane is about early roll and hook set. Many modern urethane balls have very high RG and low Diffs, the opposite of the way I think a urethane ball should be designed. But when I heard that Hammer was putting the Gas Mask core in a urethane ball, it was like my wish had come true.

I purchased the Black Widow Urethane and had it drilled to maximize its abilities. I used the Aggressive Full Roller layout with balance hole for Asymmetric cores. I have attached a photo of the layout.

I went to Kearny Mesa Bowl which uses Brunswick Pro Anvilane surface and the Big Ben oil pattern. When I called the lanes to verify open bowling they told me a party had rented the whole alley for 3 hours. I arrived just as the party finished and I was put on lane 10. When I got to my lane the return was filled with house balls. Not a good sign. I assumed there would be huge carry down and a messy pattern.

I brought my Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane ball as a gauge of the traction ability of the Widow Urethane. The Scorcher will virtually hook in anything, so I wanted to compare them on the same pattern.

The Scorcher is currently at 1500 grit Scotch-Brite and the Widow I left at the out of box stock grit of 360/800/800 Abralon.

I started with the Scorcher and made my first throw. The ball came back drenched! I rolled it until it was well soaked and then did the same with the Widow. There was definitely a huge volume of oil on this lane today! Once both balls were deep black and slick I got lined up with the Scorcher. I finally settled with right foot on 15 and rolling on 11 out to 10. The Scorcher got down and rolled strongly into the pocket for a strike. I then made the same shot with the Widow and it could not make the turn and almost left the 5-7.

Below is a video showing this comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdn7lqpJauM

Once I saw this, I put the Scorcher away and tried to get lined up with the Widow. I finally settled with right foot on 12 ˝ targeting 9 ˝ at the arrows. This allowed the ball to ride the oil line half in and out. I then rolled my first game. The result was stunning. I could not believe my eyes. The Widow simply could not overreact and yet it hit like a runaway train! I was able to simply roll the ball and it would hold the line and then gently arc into the pins and crush them like no ball I have ever used before. I had two open frames but still rolled a 221!

The Black Widow Urethane is about full control of the target line. For me it was magical, truly magical. I could just play down and in and the ball would go exactly where I rolled it with not even a hint of over/under or late overreaction messing my shot up. Had I finally found the ball that was made for me? It seemed that way. If I made a bad shot then the ball did exactly what I expected. But here is the amazing part, this urethane ball gave me margin for error. I could miss right a couple of boards and be ok and miss inside a board or two and be ok. So I essentially had a 5 board target area with a urethane ball!

Also the other remarkable thing I could not believe was the oil handling ability of this ball. These lanes were flooded this day. Maybe they put more volume down because of the party, but the Widow was soaked to the bone with oil, slick and black. Yet, it did not blunt the power or reaction of the ball. It kept hitting for 5 straight games and I never moved a millimeter from my target line or with my feet. Finally I got tired and left on a real high. You know that high I speak of, the high that comes from bowling at a new level. That is how the Black Widow Urethane made me feel. It made me a better bowler, it taught me how to be smooth and roll the ball and be rewarded for accuracy.

I have also attached a pic of the Widow soaked with oil so you can see I am not kidding about the volume.

Below is a video showing my first session with the widow. Please watch it carefully. Keep your eyes on the 6 pin in many of the shots. I virtually never get a 6 pin to bounce off the side wall and take out a 10 pin. Never. The only ball that has ever done that for me on occasion is my Dark Legend solid. But with the Widow, it was constantly making the 6 pin smack out that 10 pin. I simply could not believe the ball had that much energy at the pins. Pay attention to my bad shots too and how I get a great result out of them. When I miss right, or miss left, or throw slow, or too fast, somehow the Widow has a way of sorting it out. Amazing…

So that is my real long review of the Hammer Black Widow Urethane ball which I believe is a ball that will be winning a lot of tournaments for many players much better than me. Hopefully this review has been of value to you. Take care and good bowling!

My first session with my new Black Widow Urethane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqArAVIvtx0
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/03/17 09:11 PM

One correction on my review, the stock grit of the Widow is actually 360/500/500 Abralon. My bad.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/04/17 05:25 PM

How would you say it compares to the judge?
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/05/17 12:55 AM


Hello All,

Tonight I bowled my first series in actual league with the Black Widow Urethane.

It was exactly the same at Parkway bowl as it was at Kearny practice, even though Parkway and Kearny are using different patterns and have different lane surfaces and oil volumes.

Same as Kearny, I stood right foot on 12 1/2 and targeted 9 1/2 all night.
Did not have to move a millimeter through the whole set and got the same reaction on every single good shot, a hard, deadly strike!
If I missed right the ball would hook and set and crush the pocket high flush.
If I missed inside the ball would sit and hit high flush and crush the rack.
If I hit a tad light the six pin snapped the 10 out every single time.
If I hit real light all the pins were thrown at the 7 pin and once again a strike.
Only really, really bad shots left trouble.

End result?

A new personal best high series, a 630!
I had 17 strikes in that series.
Had a few boo, boo open frames and opened twice in the ninth frame.
If I had only closed those ninth frames...

Anyway, the point is, the Black Widow Urethane should be put on a pedestal and worshiped, it is that good.
It is so powerful and controlled. It is the most amazing ball I have ever used. I still can't understand how this ball does what it does.
My team is now in first place and next week is the position round. My doubles partner was sitting in awe of me. I did not tell him about the Widow until after our match was over.

In the third game he and I were tied frame for frame, strike for strike. He is a 219 average bowler.
He said, "who will crack first?"
Well, he was the first not to strike! Lol
I closed that third game with a 225 and that was with an open in the ninth frame.

The Widow Urethane was made for me. It emphasizes my release and utilizes it. I have a higher carry percentage with it than any other ball I have ever used. I don't know why or how this happens.
It is just like you saw in my video. Strikes from multiple types of hits.

This ball rolls very, very heavy and hits very hard, yet it never seems to roll out or lose any energy or overreact.
It is truly amazing.

I have attached a pic showing the flare rings on the ball. Remember I am a low rev bowler so the rings have very large separation.
But it looks like I am definitely getting good flare potential out of the ball with the layout I chose.

Also note the ball is not all deep black and shiny with oil like it was at Kearny since the volume at Parkway is much less than Kearny.
Yet despite no Brunswick Pro Anvilane surface and lower volume, I was able to play the exact same shot with the exact same results at Parkway as I did at Kearny.
How???

As to how this ball compares to the Crow?
It is so different and better.
The Crow has backend snap and can be hard to control and will require moves as the lane starts to transition, but with the Widow, the ball just rolls and rolls and hits like a runaway train.
I have never had to move my target or feet yet with the Widow.

The Widow is smooth as silk and stays on target and arcs softly across the lane allowing you to just lay it in there all night.
The Crow is touchy and will not hook set, it tends to get down and make a snappier move that can cause you to lose accuracy.
The Widow protects you from your errors by smoothing them out while the Crow can magnify your errors and get you in trouble as it has often done to me.
That is why I stopped using the Crow.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/05/17 05:24 PM

Today was the perfect day for my Urethane ball. The lanes were freshly oiled. but, being on the outside pair, along the wall, they dried really fast.

So, between games, I want out to the car to get the Urethane from the trunk. Only to realize, I switched cars with the wife.

So, I struggled to a 470 finish in Senior league. And, that happened to be high on our pair.

Bet, I could have had at least 490 with the Urethane. Not 1 double all day.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/06/17 11:41 AM


I know exactly how you feel Dennis!
Last week they tried a "new pattern" at Poway.
Normally I am good using rubber, or at the worst, urethane if there is a tad more volume.
This night nothing would work!
I had rubber and two urethane balls (Judge and Grizz at 320 grit) and none of them would carry, everything was lazy to the pocket.
Had 3 strikes in 3 games and each game was exactly a 155!
I tried my hardest, but that is as high as I could bowl on this pair.
This week I am bringing every type of ball I have including a dreaded reactive resin ball!
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/06/17 06:34 PM

If you ever are looking to get rid of your judge you know who to talk too!!!!!
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/06/17 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
If you ever are looking to get rid of your judge you know who to talk too!!!!!


Ok. I will remember,
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/08/17 06:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
How would you say it compares to the judge?

The Widow Urethane is a thousand times stronger! Lol
But seriously, on heavier oiled lane conditions, like the real heavy oil at Kearny that you see in my Widow Urethane demonstration video, the Judge would be little more than a spare ball.
I know because I have tried the Judge at Kearny and after two throws it is super saturated and will not even grab the lane at all.
The Widow Urethane, as you can see, just rolls through that soup and carries.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/08/17 08:36 PM

I might have to pick one up... I'm really curious to see how it rolls two handed
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/09/17 01:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
I might have to pick one up... I'm really curious to see how it rolls two handed


If Jesper Svensson's frequent use of urethane is any indication, you should like it.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/09/17 04:49 PM

I already throw almost entirely urethane! Just the new age strong ones make me nervous
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/09/17 10:57 PM

I haven't touched any reactive the last two weeks of league and have no intent to until my center decides to change to a higher volume and/or longer pattern again. I am very curious about the Black Widow too, however the one asymmetric ball I owned gave me a fishy reaction. Also, I really like how my Turbo works as a sanded urethane ball.

Mark
Posted by: SteveH

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/10/17 11:18 AM

It's the ultimate irony that discussions like this, and many others I've heard at league, come at a time when the USBC is reviewing rolling back ball performance in one way or another.
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/10/17 11:32 AM

Yep, even the Black Widow Urethane would exceed proposed DIFF specs.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/10/17 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Mkirchie
I am very curious about the Black Widow too, however the one asymmetric ball I owned gave me a fishy reaction.Mark
The Widow is the least "Fishy" ball I have every thrown.
Watch my test video and see how smooth and controlled it is.
No backend trouble with this ball. It just stays on target.
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/10/17 10:25 PM

Fishy might not have been my best choice of words. It's more that it didn't match up with my rev-dominant game, which I believe to be true of asymmetric balls in general. I'd also be concerned about how strong it is, even for urethane. On the bowlingball.com perfect scale, it is stronger than my Vintage Danger Zone. With my game, the Black Widow Urethane might be too strong and defeat the purpose of using urethane. The other night in league, I had a few shots where I got my Turbo a bit outside of 5 at the breakpoint. It roared back for a flush pocket hit every time. I'm still not sure how that ball can do that.

Mark
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/12/17 12:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Mkirchie
I'd also be concerned about how strong it is, even for urethane. On the bowlingball.com perfect scale, it is stronger than my Vintage Danger Zone. With my game, the Black Widow Urethane might be too strong and defeat the purpose of using urethane.

Ok, this story may answer your question.

Update on the Widow:

Tonight my doubles team bowled position round and we succeed and won the league title.
My partner used his Alpha Crux and bowled a 726 series which was the high of the league.
But I had trouble the first two games and learned a very important lesson about the Widow Urethane.
This ball needs oil! Lots of it!

When we arrived, a higher rev bowler was practicing on our lanes and throwing right up second arrow.
Well, when our warm up started I stood right foot on 12 1/2 targeting 9 1/2 as I did last week and the Widow was going Brooklyn!
So eventually I had to move left with feet and target, right foot on 16 rolling right up 11 nice and straight.
But even with this, the Widow was dead on arrival.
There simply was not enough volume left to use it.
The Widow was reading the front almost immediately and had nothing left for the back.
I did not know this at first and struggled with the Widow for two games barely getting a 168 and 167.
The ball was simply not striking though I made very good shots.
I left the 8-10 three times on the right lane on what looked like great shots that swept in from the outside and hit high flush.
Finally in game three I balled down to my Dark Legend Solid, moved my right foot right to 13 and targeted second arrow.
The Dark legend skidded over the dry fronts easily and saved it for the back and struck hard.
I got strings of strikes with it and closed with a 209.

Lesson learned?

Black Widow Urethane needs lots of oil in the front, it must have that oil or it will die out fast.
For me and my style, the Dark Legend Solid is several steps down in hook potential from the Widow and is a ball I can go to when the Widow is dying out.

So if you get the Widow thinking it is a dry lane ball, forget it, it is not for dry lanes! Also if you are a high rev bowler and you don't have a lot of volume it probably will die out for you too.

In the USA vs. The World tournament, Jesper was using the Hot Cell and it was dying out and not hitting. But Belmo was using a normal Pitch Black and struck every time hard.

These strong urethane balls (Widow & Hot Cell) can be too much ball!
Posted by: champ

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/12/17 11:31 AM

Let's not forget the Widow Urethane comes out of the box at 500 grit. That's a lot of surface, even for urethane...especially if your lay down point it outside of the oil line.

500 will force you into oil. But then you're asking urethane to create angle, which, even with this core, it won't do at a consistent and reliable level.

You need to find the surface which allows you to play outside without the ball hooking at your feet. When I was enamored with urethane, I three a Natural at 1500 and it worked great from the 5-6-7 area.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/12/17 01:00 PM

I find myself disagreeing with you champ... I sand my judge to 300 and will play in around twelve... It could simply due to the fact that I'm two handed but it bites hard and early while still in the oil... Id say go dull and get in the oil rather then put a higher grit on it and go outside the oil... A urethane ball is supposed to hook early, when you start looking for them to go long is when you run into issues with kicking out corner pins. Ill be curious to see how my tank rampage rolls as I'm getting it tonight... So far Ive been sticking to old school urethane and haven't thrown much new age urethane with the exception of the supernatural
Posted by: champ

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/12/17 04:05 PM

Most bowlers won't be able to get urethane to turn the corner when they move in with it. Your two-handed rev rate is likely where we differ in opinion.

I do agree you want urethane to read early. You want it to hook and set. But lower rev/lower speed bowlers will have a ball hook at their feet at 500 grit, regardless of the coverstock material.

1500 is still an aggressive surface for a lower rev rate bowler who likes to play outside in the dry.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/12/17 05:44 PM

With the lower rev rate and the later hook does it still maintain the ability to kick out corner pins?
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/13/17 11:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
I find myself disagreeing with you champ... I sand my judge to 300 and will play in around twelve... It could simply due to the fact that I'm two handed but it bites hard and early while still in the oil... Id say go dull and get in the oil rather then put a higher grit on it and go outside the oil... A urethane ball is supposed to hook early, when you start looking for them to go long is when you run into issues with kicking out corner pins. Ill be curious to see how my tank rampage rolls as I'm getting it tonight... So far Ive been sticking to old school urethane and haven't thrown much new age urethane with the exception of the supernatural

I agree with you in disagreeing with Champ.
The whole idea of urethane and especially the super strong Widow is to get it to hook really early and set and then roll a long way without any troubling backend reaction.
If the lanes don't have enough head oil to do this, like what I mentioned happened to me on Monday during our doubles finals, then put the ball back in the bag and pull out something weaker that will clear the heads and save something for the back to carry.

You don't want to be forced in with urethane even if you do have high revs. That is not what it is for and it will not succeed this way.

Having said this, I do use my Karma urethane at 2000 grit at Poway because Poway is pretty dry, but at 2000 I can still roll right up second arrow and the ball will still read early and set.

So even though I disagreed with Champ, I will also agree with him and say that a smart player could have a urethane arsenal.
Urethane balls of different types and grits so that urethane can be played the way it was meant to.

In my case perhaps I would start with the Widow and if it is too strong rolling up 9 1/2 then ball down to the Purple Hammer and probably be ok.
If Purple is still too strong then ball down to an even weaker urethane, maybe the Blue Hammer which has 4000 grit or the True Motion.

Remember the goal of urethane is a direct shot with closed down angles and lots of control of the pocket.

And to answer your other question, yes, strong urethane with a low rev player like myself does snap out those corners as long as there is enough oil on the lane so the ball doesn't die out.
Check out my Widow video to see the corners snapped out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqArAVIvtx0
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/16/17 05:50 AM

This is not an argument. there are 2 things happening.

1. The entry angle to the pocket is more direct, resulting in fewer corners being left with the Urethane.
2. At a slower speed, the pins stay on the pin deck longer to hit other pins.

Nord, when you kicked out a 10, it fell late because the 6 pin was still in front of it and not in the gutter. Where it would have been on a faster roll.

My thought on sanding a Pearl is, "it is still a pearl". It will always get more length then a reactive ball. But, the grit may get additional friction in dry. It just seems to be defeating the purpose of the ball. A different ball my be better suited.

And, I don't see my Urethane reading early. It's like old school rubber balls. Some of your early read may come from where the ball path is. Our house is dry outside of 8. On 9, it slides more then on 7.

And, I find I need more speed with my Urethane to keep it outside. I don't want to swing it, but go straight up. My revs may be too high. Speed solves that problem. Otherwise, it's a nose job.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/16/17 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael

...I don't see my Urethane reading early. It's like old school rubber balls. Some of your early read may come from where the ball path is.

Urethane definitely is designed to read the fronts early, hook early, set, and roll.
For my game, the way I throw it, when reactive is not reading the lane, I can go to strong urethane and it will roll.
Below is a video I made showing this difference in ball effects in action.
The Storm Marvel S at stock grit vs. the Visionary Crow at stock grit.
Both balls are thrown on the same lane and the same exact shots are made.
You are able to see how each ball reacts to the lane.
The Marvel S, which is an early rolling, very strong Storm ball, just slides down the lane and will not read.
The Crow which is modern urethane, just reads and rolls.
And I would consider the Crow a urethane ball that tends to get more length and has more backend than the Widow Urethane which rolls much more early.
In my doubles league at Parkway, I recently started using the Widow on the fresh and if there is not enough volume and the Widow is rolling out, I ball down to my Dark Legend solid, ball down, which will conserve energy by sliding so far and grabbing late hard. It's a nice one-two punch that has worked for me so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQeTjBc5hQ0
Posted by: wronghander

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/17/17 11:15 PM

Curious if anyone heard Phil Cardinale's comments regarding urethane and if you have any thoughts about it. Starts at the 17 minute mark here:
https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/18/17 09:27 AM

Originally Posted By: wronghander
Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot! Sorry, had to do it, lol.

I got it when you posted. BR post had a lot of interesting comments.

As for being a crutch I don't think so. If anything all my balls are crutches. They allow me to get the ball motion I desire without having to crank it.

Looks like the market is making a full circle on ball releases, cores, and covers. Stronger cores with urethane now. Next will be let's add some particles in the urethane to give it a little more bite.

Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/18/17 07:31 PM

Ive had people get [censored] at me for 1 throwing urethane, and then 2 throwing it two handed and I love it! I get the "Your just ruining the shot wtf" My reply is that theres way more people throwing two handed and way more people throwing urethane so you better get used to it! rotfl Funny that a bowler who does PBA events had no issue with it and bowled fine against me... hmmmmm... Maybe you just need to know how to adjust when somebodies throwing urethane?
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/18/17 08:59 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about ruining our shot :-) Pushing a little more oil down lane is more help than hindrance for us old crankers :-)

No gutter-caps for me if I'm following you :-) You simply open up the lanes, allow us to store more energy and get a much wider angle that will still carry :-)

Still, if I could throw urethane two-handed, I would :-)
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/18/17 09:01 PM

I totally agree with you!! People who have even a basic understanding of what they are doing should have no issues adjusting! The funny thing was I put more revs on the ball one handed and nobody ever complained then
Posted by: wronghander

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/18/17 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: BOSStull
Originally Posted By: wronghander
Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot! Sorry, had to do it, lol.

I got it when you posted. BR post had a lot of interesting comments.

As for being a crutch I don't think so. If anything all my balls are crutches. They allow me to get the ball motion I desire without having to crank it.

Looks like the market is making a full circle on ball releases, cores, and covers. Stronger cores with urethane now. Next will be let's add some particles in the urethane to give it a little more bite.

I do agree with Phil Cardinale's overall point though. People do use it as a crutch. No one should ever be saying "I had to throw urethane" and blaming their lack of carry on that. There are other options and you can get a urethane like reaction with a resin ball. I was considering a urethane ball myself over the summer but my PSO talked me into a BTU Pearl instead. I'm not sure I would do well with a true urethane. With my rotation (or lack thereof) I might be leaving a lot of flat 7s. The hook-set motion is only good if you can get your ball to face up to the pocket.

I do agree that it ruins the shot but lane preservation is not the bowlers responsibility. Urethane is not going away so it's up to Kegel and Brunswick to start developing some better lane oil that will help combat it.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/18/17 09:17 PM

Exactly! To wipe or not to wipe, that was the question? When everyone was throwing urethane in the late 70's and 80's, I can't remember a single person unhappy with carry-down. It was like adjusting a carburetor :-) Move left until the carry got a little rough and then move 1 board back to the right. Today, watching balls move so many boards in so little distance is not what most people like. Those throwing urethane today are just experiencing what everyone did back in the 80's. The sad part, ball manufacturers are slow to respond. The urethane craze, is just the result of so many people throwing so many rev's, burning up the lanes and needing weaker equipment. I'd rather throw a Tropical Breeze than a Pitch Black. I was looking at a Hot Cell and thinking, manufacturers are trying to do with urethane what they did with resin. LOL! Who said "Dry lanes make weak ball strong and strong balls weak"?
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/18/17 09:35 PM

I think the new age urethane awful... I throw the judge (which is an original black hammer from back in the day) These new urethane balls are the ball makers trying to get the old school reaction with new age balls... I throw urethane not because I have too but because I like the reaction and I like the overall feel of using more old school equipment
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 06:32 AM

Urethane practice again in Senior league. Lanes are usually very dry. And, all of my equipment is way too strong. I have used my plastic spare ball at times.

I'll get my Blue Hammer out and try it again, today.

My main problem is staying on the outside. It is not my normal line and rarely use it. With my out/in line, my delivery hand is out. when I do that with a Urethane, it slides down the channel.

I think I can swap my spare ball for the Urethane. Don't want to carry 6 balls.
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
. hmmmmm... Maybe you just need to know how to adjust when somebodies throwing urethane?
Don't know if the you was directed at me but I will respond anyway. I adjust to what my ball is doing although I do take into account what everyone else is throwing and where. If it looks like carry down may be the culprit I will switch to one of my particle balls either the Yeah Baby or New Standard which ever one is in the bag at the time.
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 09:47 AM

Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
Exactly! To wipe or not to wipe, that was the question? When everyone was throwing urethane in the late 70's and 80's, I can't remember a single person unhappy with carry-down. It was like adjusting a carburetor :-) Move left until the carry got a little rough and then move 1 board back to the right. Today, watching balls move so many boards in so little distance is not what most people like. Those throwing urethane today are just experiencing what everyone did back in the 80's. T

I had a Brunswick Twister in the 80s and still have the ball. I just showed up with it and bowled. No cleaning no wiping. It has since been replaced with an Artic Sniper that I use for spares. As in the 80s with the Twister I can play the TWIG with the Sniper if need be but there is really no reason to.


Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
Exactly! I was looking at a Hot Cell and thinking, manufacturers are trying to do with urethane what they did with resin. LOL! Who said "Dry lanes make weak ball strong and strong balls weak"?
I had the opportunity to throw the Hot Cell at a Storm DEMO back in November. I was not looking for a Urethane but I threw it just because it was there. Hot Cell may have it's purpose but not for me on a house shot.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 10:43 AM

I had a Black Hammer and an LT-48. I sold the LT-48 a few years ago and finally tossed the black Hammer. I could get the Hammer to move, but not carry unless the conditions were 'very' dry or I was on wood lanes.

I have a friend who's a 'no-thumber' who buys the latest and greatest urethane equipment. Our hands are similar so I get to check out everything when we practice together. I've tried the Pitch black, Pitch Blue, Blue Hammer, Natural and Super Natural. I'm waiting for him to pick up a Hot Cell, but he doesn't like anything that hooks a lot. I may have to wait :-)

I keep looking, but think weak resin is better than urethane. By using narrow drilling angles and wider VAL angles, I can simulate what urethane does without losing hitting power.

Now, if I had 450 RPM's........................ hmmmm.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: BOSStull
Originally Posted By: Dylan585
. hmmmmm... Maybe you just need to know how to adjust when somebodies throwing urethane?
Don't know if the you was directed at me but I will respond anyway. I adjust to what my ball is doing although I do take into account what everyone else is throwing and where. If it looks like carry down may be the culprit I will switch to one of my particle balls either the Yeah Baby or New Standard which ever one is in the bag at the time.

Not directed at you at all! I just saw something about urethane and ruining shots... It really irks me when people complain about the urethane
Posted by: IronMike

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 01:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585

Not directed at you at all! I just saw something about urethane and ruining shots... It really irks me when people complain about the urethane


I do not own a urethane ball. However, it irks me as well when people complain about any aspect like this.

Bowling is a competitive sport...I'm not out here trying to help my opponent throw his best possible game. If throwing urethane gives me a better shot -and- hurts my opponent's shot, I call that a 'win-win'.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 01:40 PM

The secret to bowling on any oil pattern is to avoid the pattern unless that pattern provides more pros than cons. On a typical house shot, I like to stand left just enough to accumulate a little oil on the way out. Just that extra amount allows strong balls to get a little further down lane before recovering. It's why crankers are always moving left looking for oil that is quickly disappearing.

If people are looking for oil that will help them get farther down lane, why would they fear 'carry-down'? The contention that urethane ruins an oil pattern or that 'carry-down' is a problem for reactive resin, may be more myth than fact.

I've just spent 30 minutes looking for an article with some evidence of urethane ruining oil patterns but only found anecdotal comments. Can anyone point me to an article where urethane and oil patterns are discussed? I've heard Randy Pederson say it can impact another's line, but I can't find any technical evidence to prove it.

In fact, I would think with 9 out of 10 throwing reactive resin, the impact in leagues would be just the opposite. Reactive balls would make most patterns useless for urethane unless a person has serious rev's. Wood lanes would be different, but on formica, urethane simply deflects too much.

I bowl in a league where 65 out of 66 use reactive resin. Only one person who throws with no thumb uses urethane. While this is just another anecdotal comment, there must be a reason for such a huge disparity.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 02:11 PM

Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
The contention that urethane ruins an oil pattern or that 'carry-down' is a problem for reactive resin, may be more myth than fact.

The reason that carry down causes issues for "Reactive Resin" is because reactive resin balls depend on dry back ends for their reaction.
They are designed to skid through oil and then grip the dry quickly and react suddenly, releasing all that energy and that is why they carry better than any other ball type.
Now if you wet that back end with oil due to carry down, that reactive reaction becomes weaker and weaker until that ball loses all its pop.

As to carry down and urethane, only non-flaring urethane produces carry down.
My Black Widow Urethane produces huge flare and takes oil off the lane like a reactive ball.
My Grizz urethane with no core and no flare does create carry down with its single oil stripe that it rolls over again and again.

Please watch this video tech talk on urethane. It is really very, very good and explains all this and more:

David O'Sullivan: Peak Performance Pro Shop- Tech Talk Urethane Bowling Balls
https://www.facebook.com/david.osullivan.585/videos/10101574004071661/
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 02:19 PM

Ive found that its much easier to ruin somebodies line with a super strong urethane ball sanded to either 360 or 500... Not that ive ever done that wink
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 02:24 PM

Not to be argumentative, but I would love to follow you in league. What you call ruining a shot is just what I look for. Not that I ever do that :-)

I understand the logic that people use when discussing urethane. I've just never experienced it in league and don't see anyone whining on the PBA about urethane carry down.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 02:33 PM

If the carry-down was 60 feet I would concede the point, but even Svensson doesn't do that. Urethane is a niche that works for some people in some venues on some patterns. On formica, except for those with high rev-rates, urethane simply deflects too often. As I said in an earlier comment, I have a no-thumber for a friend who throws urethane and I can bowl the same line as him, and my ball will do more damage to the pattern at 325 RPM's as his does at 400+.

I don't use facebook. Can you find that video on the internet and provide the URL?
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
On formica, except for those with high rev-rates, urethane simply deflects too often.

In the video I posted earlier, I am using the Black Widow Urethane on the slickest lane surface made, Brunswick Pro Anvilane with a flood of oil on the Big Ben pattern.
The Widow is super saturated, yet it does not deflect, it grabs and rolls a ton. I don't have high revs, only 150 rpms.
The Widow is that strong.

Watch again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqArAVIvtx0

Also I am getting a ton of flare with this ball despite being a low rev full roller.
Check out the pic I took last night in league.
Posted by: mmalsed

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 04:29 PM

oh, they can ruin "a shot" and force others of us to change.

The problem I have with crankers with eurethane is that they ruin my shot in three ways:

1. they scoot the oil out early in my shot as they cross my line going from left to right as I go straight. This often causes my ball to interrupt its skid early. You can see it jump a bit and it disrupts it's skid.

2. They change my break point as they come from right to left. I'm not always ready to have MY ball break when theirs has already made its move and charged across. Now my ball is disrupted twice.

3. They move oil farther down the lane. I'm already fighting long lanes, now they're longer?


Now - this said, it forces me to adjust. My problem is that I haven't found a way to make a solid adjustment to this yet. I'm not comfortable playing the twig (the only way to get far enough outside my crankers) and I don't have anywhere near enough hand to play inside them.

Best way I've been able to make it work is to take nearly ALL hand out of it, and toss it straight down 15 with a little hook action at the very end. Not satisfactory, not fun, but I can at least score.



smile
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 05:45 PM

Results for today's Urethane rolling.

Game 1: Started 10 pin, strike, strike, 10 pin, 10 pin, 10 pin, moved, went high, moved back strike, strike, 3 strikes. For a 226
Game 2: Started with a double, then high for a split, and all spares and splits after that for 170. 4 splits.
Game 3: Split, strike, split, moved and the ball deflected leaving the 5. Moved again and left a 4-5. Total of 6 splits in the game, 2 of which I picked up for a 160.

So, it started out well, but weakened and hooked uncontrollably in game 2. Worse in game 3, but I stuck with it. Kept moving for a game and a half and never found a good line.

Also, what I found. If I stay under the ball all the way through the release, the ball straightened out. With a side rotation release, I found a hook, and at times, too much.

this ball changes how I roll. don't know if I want that. But, I was able to keep it outside, rolling straight up 6 was the best. Spares were real easy, but left too many splits to really say. The forward roll went right thru the middle, leaving big gaping holes in the rack.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Results for today's Urethane rolling.
Game 1: Started 10 pin, strike, strike, 10 pin, 10 pin, 10 pin, moved, went high, moved back strike, strike, 3 strikes. For a 226
Game 2: Started with a double, then high for a split, and all spares and splits after that for 170. 4 splits.
Game 3: Split, strike, split, moved and the ball deflected leaving the 5. Moved again and left a 4-5. Total of 6 splits in the game, 2 of which I picked up for a 160.
So, it started out well, but weakened and hooked uncontrollably in game 2. Worse in game 3, but I stuck with it. Kept moving for a game and a half and never found a good line.

Also, what I found. If I stay under the ball all the way through the release, the ball straightened out. With a side rotation release, I found a hook, and at times, too much.

this ball changes how I roll. don't know if I want that. But, I was able to keep it outside, rolling straight up 6 was the best. Spares were real easy, but left too many splits to really say. The forward roll went right thru the middle, leaving big gaping holes in the rack.

-Which urethane ball were you using?
-How strong was the layout?
-What grit did you have it at?
-What oil pattern were you bowling on?
-What lane surface did the lane have?
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 10:43 PM

201-288-205 with the judge with a fresh 500 on it... Played 15 to 10 all night... The only shots I didn't strike on were more or less my fault... Urethane can be kept inside with success... But again it goes back to the whole, I have 450 RPMs
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 10:52 PM

-Which urethane ball were you using? Hammer Blue
-How strong was the layout? Strong, pin up and right of ring finger
-What grit did you have it at? Was refinished at 1000
-What oil pattern were you bowling on? House shot, 40 feet, 10 to 10
-What lane surface did the lane have? Anvilane, 4 yrs old. no oil today

I bowl in a Senior league and use it as practice. My scores mean very little as we are 24 points ahead with 1 week to go for first half. Next week is position round and even if we lose all 7 points, we are still 17 points ahead. I'll bowl head to head against the league top bowler next week and use appropriate equipment. I have been able to bowl just enough to win this year in this league.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/19/17 11:07 PM

Dennis, what type of bowler are you? Like rev rate and track?
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 01:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
-Which urethane ball were you using? Hammer Blue
-How strong was the layout? Strong, pin up and right of ring finger
-What grit did you have it at? Was refinished at 1000
-What oil pattern were you bowling on? House shot, 40 feet, 10 to 10
-What lane surface did the lane have? Anvilane, 4 yrs old. no oil today

Cool, the Blue Hammer remake or a vintage one?
What is that Blue Hammer anyway?
Is it really urethane or some odd reactive/urethane formula?
No oil???
So up 10 and it could still hold without oil?
If I tried that with my plastic ball it would not make it to the head pin.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 03:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
201-288-205 with the judge with a fresh 500 on it... Played 15 to 10 all night... The only shots I didn't strike on were more or less my fault... Urethane can be kept inside with success... But again it goes back to the whole, I have 450 RPMs

Amazing...
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 05:38 AM

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-ball-review/hammer-blue-hammer/

Hammer Blue

I left it at 1000, but, now will try it at 2000.

OIL?? the lanes were oiled before a Men's league on Monday night, about 4 pm, and not touched since for the Tuesday, noon Sr league. The side of the house we bowl on, saw open bowlers all Monday Night, not the league.
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 06:38 AM

Here is a new urethane release by 900 Global
Ball manufactures are getting a little more creative with their Urethane releases.

Shadow Ops with Core
Shadow Ops™
Available January 23rd
Preferred 600 Series

The New S25™ Hybrid Coverstock is an 80/20 urethane and reactive urethane blend a first for 900 Global coverstock

Available January 23rd
Preferred 600 Series

Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 07:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
201-288-205 with the judge with a fresh 500 on it...
Nice bowling Dylan
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 12:26 PM

This thread made me want to throw my urethane all night instead of my usual plan lol... But in hindsight I should have thrown my forza GT the first game
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 01:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
This thread made me want to throw my urethane all night instead of my usual plan lol... But in hindsight I should have thrown my forza GT the first game

Have you tried the Judge at stock grit of 320 wet sand?
It may be even more smooth and still hit just as hard.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By: nord
Originally Posted By: Dylan585
This thread made me want to throw my urethane all night instead of my usual plan lol... But in hindsight I should have thrown my forza GT the first game

Have you tried the Judge at stock grit of 320 wet sand?
It may be even more smooth and still hit just as hard.


I usually will do 360 abralon which is close but didn't have time to get an even 360 on it last night
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
Originally Posted By: nord
Originally Posted By: Dylan585
This thread made me want to throw my urethane all night instead of my usual plan lol... But in hindsight I should have thrown my forza GT the first game

Have you tried the Judge at stock grit of 320 wet sand?
It may be even more smooth and still hit just as hard.


I usually will do 360 abralon which is close but didn't have time to get an even 360 on it last night

Stock is 320 grit wet sand.
Try it at 320 grit, I think you will be surprised.
Just go to the hardware store and pick up some 320 grit wet sand paper.
Wet the paper and ball and then spin the ball in a spinner to put the grooves back in the ball like this:

Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
Dennis, what type of bowler are you? Like rev rate and track?


Well, a horrible one now, hahaha. IMO.

Was ABC member in the 70's. Bowled tournaments around the Midwest.

Took off 26 years to raise kids. Restarted in '05. It's been a struggle.
2 slide knee operations later, and I'm still learning how to balance.

I'd call myself a Power Stroker. Get about 300+ revs, when I do it right. And, lately, that has been rare. I'm just getting older and have to face it. The body just doesn't do what it used to. My speed has slowed alot, and I have too many revs for a house shot at that speed.

In the last 5 years, I have dropped from 211 to 180. And, it's killing me. All since my operations.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/20/17 10:49 PM

I feel ya with the slide knee issue... No surgery for me yet but I have three major issues with it... Just gotta find a way that works for you... Its part of the reason I'm two handed now... But with the rev rate you have and what I'm guessing is lack of speed urethane really doesn't seem to be the best choice
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/21/17 11:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
...But with the rev rate you have and what I'm guessing is lack of speed urethane really doesn't seem to be the best choice

Why would urethane not be the best choice for a rev dominant player?
Better tell Jesper to start using reactive then. wink
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/21/17 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: nord
Originally Posted By: Dylan585
...But with the rev rate you have and what I'm guessing is lack of speed urethane really doesn't seem to be the best choice

Why would urethane not be the best choice for a rev dominant player?
Better tell Jesper to start using reactive then. wink



Ive got no issue with the rev dominant! I think you just need to have a fairly decent ball speed to match when throwing urethane
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 01:49 AM

My former speed was clocked at 17+. Now, I can barely get 13.

And, that makes a huge difference in the ball reaction. I will not use asymmetrical core balls, as they are too erratic with my release. I try to stay with balls with High RG, 2.58 or more. And, Differential of .032 or close.

That compensates for lack of speed with added length. And, provides a smoother arc rather then a radical snap. both are more controllable at my slower speed.

the major difference I find in my game is the difficulty in getting strikes, especially strings. And, that's balance and timing.

I am hoping a Urethane can be added to my arsenal as an option when lane conditions dictate.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 01:54 AM

I recently picked up a motiv tank rampage and am loving it! And it still has a lefty layout... Has a lot of uumpf for a urethane
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 08:49 AM

The Tank Rampage has a symmetrical core which interests me more then the Black Widow, and its Gas Mask core, which is asymmetrical. The RG matches me, but am concerned about the very low Diff.

Seems that it would be too straight and slow to hook on the back for me.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 08:53 AM

Dylan, for 2 full seasons, my leg was in a hinged, removable cast from hip to ankle. But, that didn't stop me from bowling.

I bowled those 2 years, only taking 1 step, and averaged about 194.

But, in doing that, I really developed my release and hand. Now, I walk, and have pretty significant balance issues. Even after 2 sessions of Rehab. My leg just forgot how to walk, due to Muscle Atrophy.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 11:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
The Tank Rampage has a symmetrical core which interests me more then the Black Widow, and its Gas Mask core, which is asymmetrical. The RG matches me, but am concerned about the very low Diff. Seems that it would be too straight and slow to hook on the back for me.

1. You don't want a urethane to hook in the "back." You want urethane to read the whole lane front to back and be subtle in the back.

2. If the cover stock is strong enough then it will do its job and a low diff can be a blessing.

My Grizz has essentially super low diff, does not flare at all and has no core and is drilled with a simple CG in palm drilling.
The weakest combination in a ball for a full roller.
Yet, even though it seems to be rolling very straight, it will be grabbing the whole way and hits very hard and can roll out on drier lanes very easily.
It needs oil.
The advantage though is when the ball matches up, I can either just point it and be in the pocket all night, or if the volume is slightly less I can play a subtle tip shot keeping it in the oil all the way and still carry and of course use the same ball for all spares.
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 03:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Dylan, for 2 full seasons, my leg was in a hinged, removable cast from hip to ankle. But, that didn't stop me from bowling.

I bowled those 2 years, only taking 1 step, and averaged about 194.

But, in doing that, I really developed my release and hand. Now, I walk, and have pretty significant balance issues. Even after 2 sessions of Rehab. My leg just forgot how to walk, due to Muscle Atrophy.


I didn't mean any offense with what I said! Sorry to hear about the issues and glad your still bowling... I cant bend my knee when I slide without it giving out on me so I bend entirely at the waist... Ive been bowling with a partially torn LCL and torn meniscus now for about a year
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 06:14 PM

oh, no offense taken. I had torn MCL, repaired arthroscopically. then had 5 meniscus tears removed. some there for 40 years, I bet.

But, had to wait a year after my heart attack for Dr to approve the operation.

Physically, It's been a down hill slide for me. But, I'll get back. Somehow!!
Posted by: goobee

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 07:29 PM

Ah the perils of getting old. Where's that fountain Ponce de Leon's been looking for?
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: goobee
Ah the perils of getting old. Where's that fountain Ponce de Leon's been looking for?

I'm only 20! I shouldn't be having these issues!!
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/22/17 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
Originally Posted By: goobee
Ah the perils of getting old. Where's that fountain Ponce de Leon's been looking for?

I'm only 20! I shouldn't be having these issues!!


you just got there faster.
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/23/17 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
I'm only 20! I shouldn't be having these issues!!

In the "Knocking the Shine" off the pearl ball thread, you mentioned that when you switched to 2-handed you plant more than slide. In this thread, you mention that you can't bend from the knee when you bowl. I assume that the knee problems are not bowling related, however the combination of planting with no knee bend is exerting a tremendous amount of stress on your knee joint. Short of taking a break, I do feel that it would be good if you could figure out some way to modify your delivery to minimize the stress on your knee. Just my thoughts and I hope that eventually you won't need to worry about your knee.

Mark
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/23/17 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Mkirchie
Originally Posted By: Dylan585
I'm only 20! I shouldn't be having these issues!!

In the "Knocking the Shine" off the pearl ball thread, you mentioned that when you switched to 2-handed you plant more than slide. In this thread, you mention that you can't bend from the knee when you bowl. I assume that the knee problems are not bowling related, however the combination of planting with no knee bend is exerting a tremendous amount of stress on your knee joint. Short of taking a break, I do feel that it would be good if you could figure out some way to modify your delivery to minimize the stress on your knee. Just my thoughts and I hope that eventually you won't need to worry about your knee.

Mark

Ill try and get a video of it up soon... But by not sliding as much it allows me to keep my legs more straight up and down where as sliding requires a lot of knee bend
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/23/17 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Dylan585
[But by not sliding as much it allows me to keep my legs more straight up and down where as sliding requires a lot of knee bend

I am a planter. No slide at all.
I hate it when the approaches are slippery, it seems like I can't get any traction and I feel like I can't make a straight approach.
I am thinking of going to try tennis shoes like Michael Haugen.
Do they make non sliding bowling shoes for planters?
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/23/17 08:24 PM

I have a slide.

But, I am sure there is an inter changeable sole that doesn't.
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/23/17 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: nord
Do they make non sliding bowling shoes for planters?


Along the lines of what Dennis said, you could consider a pair of Dexters with interchangeable soles for both feet and put traction soles and heels on both feet. Personally, I like to slide and estimate my slide to be around 2 ft long (hard to tell exactly from videos from behind.)

Mark
Posted by: Dylan585

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/24/17 04:30 PM

I have the dexters with the changeable soles and use the 2 pad... Mine is super worn and actually slides more then a fresh one but it does not slide much
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 12/30/17 12:21 AM


A quick note:
Today I picked up my Purple Hammer.
I will try it tomorrow at Parkway where I bowl doubles league and compare it to the Widow.
My hope is it will be the perfect ball down option when the Widow is hooking too much, or hitting flat from rolling out when the volume is not enough for it.
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 02/03/18 10:55 AM

OK my team mate has decided to by a CRUTCH, I mean a Black Widow Urethane. nelson

He asked me beforehand if he bought one one would it mess me up. I responded if that's what you want buy it. I will adjust. So in the near future I may be able to make comments on adjusting when bowling on the same lanes with urethane.

Also will give me a chance to throw his to see how it reacts for me. We both use interchangeable thumbs and same size finger inserts although his span is a tad shorter I can still throw his with problem.
Posted by: nord

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 02/13/19 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: BOSStull
OK my team mate has decided to by a CRUTCH, I mean a Black Widow Urethane. nelson

He asked me beforehand if he bought one one would it mess me up. I responded if that's what you want buy it. I will adjust. So in the near future I may be able to make comments on adjusting when bowling on the same lanes with urethane.

Also will give me a chance to throw his to see how it reacts for me. We both use interchangeable thumbs and same size finger inserts although his span is a tad shorter I can still throw his with problem.


So whatever happened to your friend and his Black Widow urethane?
Did he get it and did he mess you up?
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" - 02/16/19 07:40 AM

Originally Posted By: nord
Originally Posted By: BOSStull
OK my team mate has decided to by a CRUTCH, I mean a Black Widow Urethane. nelson

He asked me beforehand if he bought one one would it mess me up. I responded if that's what you want buy it. I will adjust. So in the near future I may be able to make comments on adjusting when bowling on the same lanes with urethane.

Also will give me a chance to throw his to see how it reacts for me. We both use interchangeable thumbs and same size finger inserts although his span is a tad shorter I can still throw his with problem.


So whatever happened to your friend and his Black Widow urethane?
Did he get it and did he mess you up?

Yes he did but no it does not mess me up. When he uses it he plays between the 2nd and 3rd arrows. I play outside of him. Our house shot is longer than most. It favors either high revs or lower speed players in order to play left of the 2nd arrow. He is lower speed.