good bowlers ?

Posted by: 33brumichen

good bowlers ? - 01/21/05 08:29 PM

What makes a bowler good or great? is it average, 300 games, 800`s
Posted by: Squirrel

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/21/05 10:11 PM

Good question.

I think a good bowler is anyone who is happy with their game. I'm not where I want to be yet and have never bowled a 300 or an 800 total, but my score is climbing every week so I consider myself to be a good bowler.

A great bowler is what I'd like to be someday. smile

I think an average over 200 is a great bowler, but that's just my opinion. Is there an accepted standard for good and great?
Posted by: Coach04

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/21/05 11:28 PM

Consistancy...
Posted by: vjmehra

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/22/05 06:28 AM

Hmmm, you could be consistently bad though coach. My personal view would be that anyone who can bowl a 200 average on any condition is a good bowler and will always be in contention for every (non-pro)tournament they enter.
Posted by: Coach04

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/22/05 12:11 PM

If you are bad you are not consistent. Bad scores come from lack of consistency.

Averaging 200 across multiple conditions is consistency.
Posted by: Jack

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/23/05 03:25 AM

Try a traveling league, if you can average 200+ bowling in a different house every time you bowl, then you are consistent, and a good bowler, right Coach?
Posted by: vjmehra

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/23/05 09:01 AM

Not 100% convinced here coach, if you have a dodgy technique you could consistently be making exactly the same mistakes, for example if you never follow through properly you can get into a routine of doing this and then it becomes habit and you are making exactly the same mistake every time.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/23/05 02:54 PM

I think versitility, with a heavy dose of consistency, makes a good bowler. These days just about anyone with wrist and ball speed can average 200. But given different houses and different oil patterns, a good bowler needs to be versitil enough to correctly interpret their ball reaction and move to make it work.

However, keep in mind that the more useless motion you have in your delivery, the more difficult it is to make them all perfect every time. Of course there's different ways to get to the pocket. But the more basic your delivery, the easier it is to make it consistent. That's why you do not see uncoventional styles on the PBA week after week. Dodgy technique will only get you so far, in the long run.

Erin
Posted by: bimmerman

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/23/05 08:05 PM

Coach04 is right, good bowler is consistent. Average really makes no difference. With the THS of today, just about anyone can average over 200 with a little effort, and you don't have to be good to do it.

Anyone who watched today's PBA telecast saw Patrick Allen demonstrate consistency. During the title match, ESPN superimposed two different shots and they were virtually identical. Same body position, same backswing, same release, same mark, etc.
Posted by: Coach04

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/23/05 09:47 PM

vjmhera,

(conĚsisĚtenĚcy - Reliability or uniformity of successive results or events.)

You are misusing, or misunderstanding the definition of consistency. Being consistent means that you do not do all of these things you are attributing to it. It means that you consistently deliver the ball in a controlled, repeatable fashion on every shot. It means you consistently adjust to conditions. It means you are constant in producing the desired results.
Posted by: mdmjdm

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/25/05 12:57 PM

Good vs. Great? I think anyone over 200 is a "good" bowler, just like a golfer in the 70/80's is a "good" golfer.

But "great"? Harder to define. In my opinion, the great bowlers I have seen are versatile. I've bowled in scratch tournaments against two men in particular who I would definitely consider "great". Tim Criss and Rich Wolfe, both current national tour members.

First of all, they are two of the nicest people you would ever want to meet. Have a question? They will advise and help you if they can.

They have one thing in common, they are versatile. Yes, they might have a bad game or two here or there, but they ALWAYS find a way to get it done.

Tapered, blocked, reverse blocked, long oil, short oil...they find a way to get it done and finish at or near the top. And MOST of it is due to a strong mental game. Neither gets rattled easily by a 160 game. Class acts, whether they are bowling well or not.

To me, that is what makes someone "great".

I'll just stay happily at "good", especially in comparison to those two.

John
Posted by: Jack

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/25/05 05:19 PM

I agree with Erin and John, versatility is a great big plus, but I also feel that consistency will lead to versatility. I've bowled with Norm Duke, Gary Dickinson and several others, and it's amazing to watch them.
Posted by: mdmjdm

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/27/05 01:10 PM

Jack, I will agree with you there. All the talent in the world, and the ability to be versatile wont help you if you havent "been there before". Just look at how nervous people get with their first 200, 600, 700...etc.

I've had tons of all of the above, so the only real "nerves" I feel anymore are the times I have a shot at 800. (which I still dont have in a league frown )

I guess you have to "progress" all the way through "good" in order to be great. Nerves have a way of making even the best bowlers choke.

You could say that I feel being consistently good and getting "used to all the attention" is necessary for awhile in order to move "up" to great. That's another ingredient in being great...comfort with being watched.

John
Posted by: vjmehra

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/27/05 02:30 PM

Coach, I completely agree that a good bowler is consistant, but on this side of the pond at least consistancy does not have to be a positive thing (just checked this in the Oxford English dictionary (UK)), therefore a bad bowler could still be consistent, just consistently bad. Maybe in US English the term is defined differently?
Posted by: emperor

Re: good bowlers ? - 01/27/05 03:44 PM

Just to augment the definition, how about a bowler who is clutch, when the pressure is on? Let's examine 10th frame scenarios, where a difficult spare is made or a bowler just punches out with a turkey. Added pressure (pin differential is so minute) can affect a "ok" bowler and he/she can choke. That's why I love position weeks!
Posted by: mdmjdm

Re: good bowlers ? - 02/01/05 11:09 AM

Clutch bowling is part of it...there is no doubt about that. The really good bowlers can muster out a good 10th frame even when they have been struggling the entire game. How many times have we all seen that rock-solid anchor bowler struggle all game...then need a strike or a mark to win?

Regardless of average, the good bowlers get it done...somehow.

John
Posted by: Squirrel

Re: good bowlers ? - 02/01/05 10:26 PM

I've done that a few times, shoot better in the last frame when I really need it. Pressure seems to help my game.
Posted by: Mary Allen

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/07/05 03:31 PM

I think what makes a good bowler is someone who has mastered the physical part of the game and who has a strong mental game. Another componet that makes a good bowler is someone who makes the time to practice, because if you don't make the time to practice how can you progress. But you also have to practice smart, meaning you have to organize your practice sessions. And the way you do it is to work on one thing at a time. The most time you should put in a practice session is no longe than an hour. If you practice more than an hour then you can overpractice and before you know it you bad habits can surface itself in your game causing a slump. I've been bowling for eight years and have a very solid physical game but my mental game is improving. Good luck and happy bowling.
Posted by: TMorgan

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/10/05 12:20 AM

IMO a good bowler isn't made on series, score, avg, or even multi-avg. I think in order to be a good bowler you just have to love the game no matter what it throws your way... Of course that's just my personal opinion.

I have averaged over 200 in 7 different houses that I have bowled in. But, I still think that's not what makes me a good bowler. I'm a good bowler because I enjoy bowling no matter what the score.
Posted by: TMorgan

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/10/05 12:23 AM

To add to my last post... and give my opinion on a great bowler. A great bowler to me is a good bowler that never admits to greatness...

One can never reach greatness if they think they have already achieved it.
Posted by: mdmjdm

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/10/05 06:51 PM

TMorgan: Good point. You have to stay humble, and realize that you will ALWAYS run into someone out there who can beat you.

IMO...If your name isnt Earl or Walter Ray...you aren't "great"...at least not compared to them.

Personally, I also think that you SHOULD look at yourself as a good bowler (if you are)...and let others tag you with "great" or "awesome" if THEY want to...their choice.

John
Posted by: nycxice13

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/23/05 12:00 PM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by mdmjdm:
Good vs. Great? I think anyone over 200 is a "good" bowler, just like a golfer in the 70/80's is a "good" golfer.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">im a excellent golfer but a horrible bowler.
Posted by: mdmjdm

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/24/05 06:21 AM

I actually brought golfing up for a reason. The sports are alot alike...you need to have the same "relaxed" motion to be successful.

Force it and swing too hard in golf, and you are rewarded with a poor shot. Same in bowling...you can't "try too hard". Everything has to be relaxed and smooth for good results.

Maybe that is why I am about a 10 handicap in golf???

John
Posted by: nycxice13

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/24/05 11:24 AM

I don't know. When I play golf I get into a zone once i step up to the tee. Bowling im constantly trying to correct my motion. But that will come in time.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/24/05 02:27 PM

Exactly nycxice13. You don't have your motion down yet. Its like when you first started playing golf. I mean, you didn't just pick up a golf club and become a great golfer.....right? It took time, practise, concentration and possibly some lessons too. I just can't tell you how many golfers are good bowlers also and vis versa. The two sports go hand in hand.

Erin
Posted by: strikesbeme

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/24/05 02:57 PM

So which is funnier, someone who throws their golf clubs, or someone who kicks the ball return?

I've seen golfers throw a club (or clubs) into a lake, and I've seen bowlers (ME!) throw a ball into a river.

Just thought I would add some humor to this thread.

Whatever game/sport you're playing, play it to the best of your ability and never lose sight of the fact that it's just a game.
Posted by: mdmjdm

Re: good bowlers ? - 03/24/05 03:19 PM

I think throwing the clubs into a lake is funnier. You KNOW they are kicking themselves on the drive home...hundreds of dollars down the tube...

Never kicked a ball return...Punched the top of one once, though. Not smart...lol. First, I was upset at my shot(missed a 10 pin). Then, I let my anger get to me and punched the ball return. Didnt do any damage, except to my hand. Then I was mad at myself for lashing out like that.

I guess my hand throbbing for the next two days was my punishment? lol. First (and hopefully LAST) time I ever did anything like that..ouch.

John
Posted by: budvangogh

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/05/05 06:57 AM

My opinion of a good bowler is someone who can find the best avialable shot on a lane and maximizing it--200 is not possible sometimes and the good bowler gets what is possible--
Posted by: Flamenco

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/05/05 02:49 PM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by budvangogh:
My opinion of a good bowler is someone who can find the best avialable shot on a lane and maximizing it--200 is not possible sometimes and the good bowler gets what is possible-- </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Totally agree
Posted by: Darrell

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/05/05 02:57 PM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by budvangogh:
My opinion of a good bowler is someone who can find the best avialable shot on a lane and maximizing it--200 is not possible sometimes and the good bowler gets what is possible-- </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Good point Bud.
If I am not mistakened John Jowdy tells the story of Amleto Monacelli won the Showboat Invitational with a score of 158. Moral of that story is that our competitor has to bowl on the same lane condition. The resourceful, versatile, in others words the good bowler finds a way to win.
Posted by: TMorgan

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/05/05 03:56 PM

Very well said Bud. I have to agree with that assessment.
Posted by: Big Sarge

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/05/05 09:48 PM

Hello all. This subject drew me in and I thought that it would be only appropriate for my first post.

I would like to add the following into the mix of what a "good" bowler 'is'. A good bowler is one who freely and unselfishly offers help, advice, coaching and mentoring to others. A "good" bowler promotes the sport, not for personal gain , but in an effort to help expand the sports horizons and to bring the challenge, fun and joy to others. Good bowlers bring others in to see what a wonderful sport this is and how much enjoyment one can attain by hurtling a cursed ball at a bunch of stationary wood.

After years of involvement in several other competitive sports, I can tell you that one of the greatest things that bowing has going for it is the promotion and involvement at the grass routes level. I have seen this for years and years. Growing up in a bowling alley, I took it for granted. And over the last several days since coming across this site during my "rebirth" into bowling, I have witnessed that it has not died-not at all.

So I'm back. Back to this @#$$#%! game. I have been smitten again by one of my earliest loves. I have become active again thanks largely to all of you. You have drawn me back in. Thanks a bloody lot!!-lol

Big Sarge
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/06/05 02:14 AM

Sarge!!! you are so welcome back!! LOL

Your points are well taken and should be an inspiration for all of us.

Erin
Posted by: Headshot

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/06/05 06:29 PM

Sarge.... Great to have you with us. This board has so many well informed people, it's very well worth the $1,000.00 a year membership. Oh wait! This board is free, but probably worth that much.
thumbsup

I know it has greatly improved my game. I just started back bowling about a year and a half ago; the equipment and lane conditions are a world apart from what they were 20 years ago.

The information you can gain from this site is comparable to reading every bowling book on the market; although I have bought most of them anyway. The people on this site fit the description you listed in your post, very helpful!
smile
Posted by: Big Sarge

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/06/05 10:13 PM

The wonderful thing about this forum is that everyone is genuinely friendly and out to help each other. Believe me that is not the case with forums for some of my other passions-pool most particulary. (I wont get started on this subject line or I will write a novel)

And..oh it is free??!! Then who is getting that check I mailed out?! Just as well it will bounce anyway after I buy this new ball and replace my bag.
Posted by: Averagely Unique

Re: good bowlers ? - 04/07/05 10:18 AM

I had to chime in on this largely due to the interesting head-to-head between vjmehra and Coach04 on the definition of 'consistent'.

I too am a Brit, vjmehra (and own a very good Oxford Concise). You are missing the wood for the trees man. Coach was correct in his assertions. Nobody would assume a consistent bowler was a consistently bad one - as nobody would wish to aim for such 'consistency'. In bowling, a consistent bowler is assumed to be a good one - one who can repeat a good shot and technique and whose scores don't fluctuate badly.

Man what a pointless attempt at contradiction! No offense. You don't need to be contrary just for the sake of it. Don't soil the British name with such irrelevancies!

It's true to say that a good bowler is not just one who scores well though, but is an ambassador for the sport - even at a local level, and helps others out whenever possible through sharing his/her knowledge and skills. A high-average bowler who never assists those who could benefit from it, is not a 'good bowler' but perhaps a selfish showboater!!

I haven't met too many like that - most are helpful and keen to support less experienced players. And everyone on this site is very supportive and helpful - therefore good bowlers!

PS vjmehra, I am sure the Oxford dictionary didn't tell you to spell the word 'consistant' - that would be bad!

;-)