bowling tryouts

Posted by: spr3wr

bowling tryouts - 10/13/06 11:52 AM

need some advice other than high score on how to run an bowling tryout for highschool
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/13/06 02:41 PM

If you're trying to get teams together, score is a big factor, but you have to take into consideration chemistry, personal character, and coachability. Any team sport needs these 3 factors to be successful be it bowling, football, baseball or water polo. And, there too, a bowler's score that day might not always be indicative of their true potential, so you need to run your tryouts over a couple of days or more for a real indication of who's who. And at that same time, you can watch their character and see who's coachable.

Bowling is similar to golf in that you have individuals trying to post a good team score. If you throw a bad ball, a better spare-maker cannot come in an relieve you. If you miss your target, you can't have someone else recover for you. It's just you and the lanes. So while it is a team effort, it's still a group of individuals with a common goal. And because it's individualized, there is no need to be a "cohesive unit" like baseball, basketball or football, but it still needs to be a unit that will work together and repsect each other.

Good luck!
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/15/06 02:01 PM

I remember my High school tryouts. The Coach started with an explanation that Bowling is a game of averages. We didn't have any one bowler that bowled 210 every game, but we had bowlers who averaged 210. So, in his mind, a 1 day tryout was not sufficient. We had 3 tryout days. Scores were accumulated over the 3 days for the final selection. We had 7 selected for a 5 man team. Everyone was guaranteed 1 game to bowl. The lowest 2 bowlers were replaced by the subs in the last game, or sooner if needed.

After the selection, we bowled a couple more times, while he was setting the starters and the line up. That was important to him, and 5 days of scores gave him an idea of who were the better bowlers. Certain bowlers could not follow others. That is where I learned that I cannot follow a faster bowler without picking up speed myself. I follow a slower bowler to this day. I have the same chance of srtiking out in the tenth, bowling second as I do as the anchor bowler. He routinely had our best spare shooter bowl last. There was a very high probabliity of a mark in the tenth from him. He would not lose a game because of an open. And, a spare, high count would generally be equal to or better than our opponent.
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/16/06 02:22 PM

I kind of have a similar dilemma,
I have been asked to coach a high school team. Now I have no experience in coaching a bowling team, running a practice, tryouts etc.,heck I havent even been to a high school match, but this particular group is being very persistant. Although I feel I have something to offer, and can help, being so green as a coach, I think I may be a detriment to the kids.
Time is running out, this team has no coach, and I am being asked to "please strongly consider" this challenge. What to do...? I would rather be an assistant, but that option is not there.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/16/06 03:32 PM

Eraser, my bowling coach wasn't a bowler...period. His high game was a 228 which he bowled with us one day in practice. The kids he coached (including myself) had that score for high games before we hit 8th grade grade for the most part. His strong suit was player management. He knew how to get the most out of his bowlers and was able to push the right buttons. He was a great motivator and knew how to calm someone down if they had a bad game. Tell you how to bowl? Forget it. Tell you if you were too fast or too slow? He could do that. Man, he was sharp.

He currently holds the record for most coaching wins for Varsity Girls and Boys bowling in New York State with 680. That record was amassed over a 30 year span and he took, up until I graduated in 1992, 2 girls' teams to the State Championship and one boy's team (the one I bowled on) to states and the team I bowled on took home the championship in 1992.

So it's not all about knowing how to coach these kids as most of them, by the time they reach high school, should be pretty decent bowlers who probably have pretty fair-sized egos. wink If you need a coach and you don't feel you're qualified, enlist one. There has to be at least one person in your area with coaching credentials who wouldn't mind sharing time creating a great bowling program. I know I would love to start one here but there isn't enough interest. So, for now, I handle the "upper-tier" kids we have and coach them to prepare them for tournaments and when we take our program to the state tournament in May.

Being a coach isn't about having all the answers or having the most knowledge. It's about caring and wanting the kids under your supervision to suceed, not only as athletes, but as people as well.
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/17/06 09:41 AM

I don't think its the coaching, fundamentals, that concern me , its the rules, structure, of the way high school leagues operate.I don't have a clue. I do have a friend that I can bounce some things off of, he has coached in the past but has commitments and can't devote alot of time now. I want the kids to succeed, and don't want them to be penalized because the "dumb coach "screwed something up. I guess the only way to learn is to jump in with both feet and have at it.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/17/06 10:02 AM

Talk to the league's directors and see what they say. Don't blindly run into this situation. Every state has their own rules, but you might be able to bounce some questions off of me as it wasn't all that long since I was in high school bowling and I might be able to answer some questions.
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/17/06 10:37 AM

Thanks Brian,
I'll keep that in mind. I need to investigate this a little further before I decide. I think I have about 3 weeks.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/19/06 07:13 PM

My USBC Doubles partner is a HS Bowling Coach. He gets a lot of satisfaction working with the kids. I think the kids benefit too.

Good luck.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/19/06 08:02 PM

Too bad there aren't HS bowling teams in every state, be they clubs or varsity lettering sports. I know for some schools, proximity to other schools and bowling centers is a problem, but at least in the higher populated areas, you would think there might be something.

I played football and baseball in high school, but, to me, they never stacked up to bowling. Maybe it was because our bowling teams were winners without prejudice from parents and boosters while the baseball and football teams were conference doormats because of meddling from parents and boosters and the shamelss promotions of the more "popular kids". Plus, the bowling teams were "intimate", in that the team sizes were small. Hey, we didn't all get along off the lanes, but on them, there wasn't a tighter group.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/19/06 09:37 PM

Here in CA there's an organization that pretty much controls the high school sports. For some reason they do not let the kids participate in more then one sport at a time. So we're having trouble getting high school bowling going.

Maybe Angel knows more about it. But we heard just a quick take on it at our Nor Cal Directors' travel league and it was pretty discouraging.

But high school bowling is one of the reasons USBC did away with all watches and rings for Jrs. A lot of programs prohibit kids from being awarded with anything that has value. So it now all down to patches and certificates. Can you imagine? Bowl 100 pins over your average and you get a certificate on a piece of paper run off on a computer. Same with 700 and 800 series.

Erin
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/19/06 10:15 PM

As Brian said, I don't remember ever seeing our Bowling Coach bowl. Don't know if he even could. But, I know that he was respected for his time and effort that he put in.
We had a JV and Varsity team. There were just 14 of us with the Coach. We all got along great.
I went to my 40th high school reunion last year. It was held at the school. They have a reunion event annually for each ten year anniversary at the same time. So in attendance were alums from 10, 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Being a new school, I was in the first graduating class. And still in the trophy case in the vestabule, was the first conference championship trophy and plaque the school ever won. The 1965 Bowling championship, with my name on it. I was still proud.
There used to be a picture of us too. But, since then they had to make room for more awards.

Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/20/06 07:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Atochabsh
But high school bowling is one of the reasons USBC did away with all watches and rings for Jrs. A lot of programs prohibit kids from being awarded with anything that has value. So it now all down to patches and certificates. Can you imagine? Bowl 100 pins over your average and you get a certificate on a piece of paper run off on a computer. Same with 700 and 800 series.

That's just flat stupid. Maybe the other programs were jealous at the fact that bowlers could earn stuff like rings and watches. A running back gets notoriety and a hard look from a D-I school for cranking off 2,000 yards or whatever, but a kid who shoots a 300 gets a piece of jewerly, and that probably bothers some of the athletic directors, especially the ones who still don't consider bowling a "real sport". brickwall
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/20/06 08:32 AM

I agree Brian,
Thats just flat out stupid, heaven forbid that a young bowler be rewarded for any success he/she has achieved. Maybe its that coaches of other sports don't want any thing to legitimize the SPORT of bowling, fearing it may take athletes away from their "more popular" sports. I have seen trophys honoring achievments in other sports that cost more than a 300 ring, so whats the big deal.?
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/20/06 10:48 AM

Unfortunately, I think Erin is correct. No ameteur athlete can receive any award of value for participating in his/her sport. Bowling is one of the few sports that all ages fall under one guiding organization. And, unlike the NCAA or other, Bowling gives out awards that excede the maximum value sstandard for all other sports.

But, now that you bring it up Brian, how does ameteur football give a Heisman Trophy to a football player as an undergraduate and still allow him to play another year? That Trophy has a great deal of value. Just ask OJ.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/20/06 12:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
But, now that you bring it up Brian, how does ameteur football give a Heisman Trophy to a football player as an undergraduate and still allow him to play another year? That Trophy has a great deal of value. Just ask OJ.

I'm not touching that with OJ's or anyone else's bloody glove! grin

Actually, I do think that it has something to do with jealousy. Think about it, bowling is the only sport where the ceiling scores (highest scores possible) are both difficult to obtain and (well, once was) almost impossible to obtain. There is no ceiling score in football, baseball, backetball, etc. So you cannot give someone a ring for scoring 9 touchdowns in a game, or driving in 10 runs in a game, or scoring 100 points in a game, because, at some point in time, although unlikely, those feats can be broken.

But in bowling, nobodoy can throw a 301 scratch game or a 901 scratch series, therefore certain games such as a 298, 299, or 300 warrants a ring for the accomplishment, as does an 800 or 900 series. If you shoot a 290, you can get an 11 in a row plaque. If you shoot 125 poins over your average, you can get a watch. Call me crazy, but bowling has a great awards system, er, well, used to before the merger anyhow. Other sports have no similar awards system that I know of.

Yep, it's jealousy. wink
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/20/06 04:29 PM

Jealousy???

I think it is because no other sport has an organization geared to the individual like bowling has. The individual pays for membership to the USBA for sanctioning. I never got a membership card to Little league of America, although that is who I played under. Even under ABC rules, individual awards were finely tuned to show a real achievement in the sport.
As a Junior bowler, I had patches sewn all over my shirt. When I got my first 300 at about 18-19, it was in a sanctioned league and I received a plaque and written award.

Since then, rings for 298 and 300, and watches for 100 pins over in a game.

If I were an ametuer in another sport, say NCAA baseball, which I was, I would hate to think those awards would eliminate my eligibility. I was never asked specifically about bowling awards when playing College Baseball. I was asked if I ever received any compensation for athletics, to which I always answered no. An award is not compensation in my mind. It is recognition for achievement.

Brian, don't worry. The glove doesn't fit.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/20/06 06:29 PM

It just dawned on me that a statement is written in the USBC Pamphlet we receive with our USBC Membership Card, it says:

"Working in conjunction with the high school and collegiate athletic associations across the country, items in the USBC Youth recognition program have been reviewed and modified where necessary to protect youth members' current and future eligibility to compete in high school and collegiate sports. Some award items, such as rings and plaques, needed to me replaced with other items that are more symbolic in nature and fall within acceptable value limits of all 50 states. Beginning in the 2006-07 season, USBC Youth members will earn emblems, medals, or pins for their achievements. However, the option will be available for bowlers, their parents or legal guardians to commemorate their achievement by purchasing awards similar to what has been previously offered."
Posted by: DivaDevil

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/22/06 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
As Brian said, I don't remember ever seeing our Bowling Coach bowl. Don't know if he even could. But, I know that he was respected for his time and effort that he put in.
...And still in the trophy case in the vestabule, was the first conference championship trophy and plaque the school ever won. The 1965 Bowling championship, with my name on it. I was still proud.


Ahhh Dennis that is cool! Do you have any idea if your coach is still living?
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/22/06 08:47 PM

Hi DivaDevil, thanks for noticing.

This is a great board. If you have the time, with the little ones, join us in conversation.

Love to hear your average, leagues, or any other subjects you would bring up.
Posted by: Black Jack

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/23/06 07:45 PM

In my experience good coaches are often awful bowlers, the two coaches who've helped me through the last 6 years were both worse bowlers than me.

Actually, one of them backhanded and only owned a bowling ball once I gave him one which wouldn't hook for me anymore. Also, the coach for my youth bowling squad is a fairly bad bowler- 150 average in a team of 7 who all average 210ish.

He's good at motivating people and also good at noticing our strengths and weakenesses, for example, I find it hard being first off, I always think it's unlucky. 5th however I find easy, so I tend to go there. I also hate following left handers, so I never do that either.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/25/06 04:40 AM

BlackJack,
High School Coaches are usually Teachers who are volunteering their time or picking up an extra task for a few bucks after school. No School, to my knowledge, hires a bowling coach.
The best Coach at that age is someone who knows how you bowl, and can spot a problem. Just to be able to identify that something has changed, or some habit is causing trouble is good enough for a good younger bowler. My Dad was mine.
A Training Coach is something different. Here, the ability, knowledge of the game and certification qualifies this person to work with you to improve what you do.
Posted by: sawmill

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/25/06 10:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
BlackJack,
High School Coaches are usually Teachers who are volunteering their time or picking up an extra task for a few bucks after school. No School, to my knowledge, hires a bowling coach.
The best Coach at that age is someone who knows how you bowl, and can spot a problem. Just to be able to identify that something has changed, or some habit is causing trouble is good enough for a good younger bowler. My Dad was mine.
A Training Coach is something different. Here, the ability, knowledge of the game and certification qualifies this person to work with you to improve what you do.

Eh? Here, they are recruiting high school bowling coaches in the local bowling newspaper. They are offering USBC backed seminars just to teach those recruits. IIRC Richard Shockley is teaching the next one. Doesn't sound like high school teachers as coaches to me.... Although a teacher probably has to be involved somewhere. And if I heard correctly, they want all the high school coaches to get a minimum of USBC Bronze Coach certification.


Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: bowling tryouts - 10/25/06 12:09 PM

This is really interesting. Advertising for a Bowling Coach.
I can state for a fact that in our High School District, Only Teachers can be a Coach of any Sport. So, all of the Coaches in all sports have to teach a minimum number of classes before they can Coach. My Coach was a History Teacher first.

Now, this does not apply to Club Sports. They include: Girls Field Hockey, Boys Ice Hockey and others. These are usually sports that all schools in the Conference do not support, but some make available for a participation fee. This pays for fields, ice rinks, org fees, uniforms, refs, and a Coach. Clubs may include Bowling in some schools,
I guess.
Posted by: d_bradford82

Re: bowling tryouts - 01/20/07 10:49 AM

Off topic kinda:

For tryouts this year we bowled for 3 straight days. 6 games a day and each day was a different sport shot ranging from a dry/short shot, a medium shot, and a shot with lots of oil. Kept a running score.

You also had to meet with the coach individually and you did a little skills test, which involved shooting your ball threw a pair of cones set at the arrows, between the cone and gutter (you had to hit the 3 board or you were going to hit the cone) And then there was 10 shots at the 7 pin and 10 shots at the 10 pin.

For the skills part you got extra pins added to your score. Took the top bowlers (for the exception of anybody that didn't seem like they were going to be team players or had anger problems that be harmfull for the team.

Far as our coach goes, WELL he's not much of a coach it seems to me. He oils the lanes for us and thats about it. If you have questions about your shot he will watch and help you. But i think his way of thinking is if you made it threw tryouts, your good enough you shouldn't really have to be coached.

He has taken our team to 4 national championships. BUT when you had a stacked team like he did i don't think it would be hard, people like jeremy sonnefield (Mr. 900), Derek Sapp (who is on tour now), and three other guys who could have played for any school they wanted too, who needs a coach?