2017 USBC Open Championships

Posted by: champ

2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/18/17 07:48 PM

Well, I haven't seen one of these started yet this year, but with today being the opening day, I suppose its time.

Who is going and when?

I'll be bowling April 13 and 14. I'm only about three hours away from Las Vegas so I'm hoping to make at least one short trip up to scout and bowl the Bowler's Journal.

This will be my 4th year. Looking forward to a good one.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/18/17 09:44 PM

Don't tell or show anyone what you saw, it's a secret wink
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/18/17 10:02 PM

I'll be making my Open debut this year. Really looking forward to it because it will also be my first time going to Las Vegas. We're bowling May 23rd and 24th. My doubles partner and team captain is a left-hander also who is a silver level coach so I'll have someone who can help me play the lanes and with ball/surface selection. I imagine the low to cash in the top division will be higher with no longer those sub-200 bowlers in that pool of players so it's going to be tougher but hoping to do reasonably well. I plan on entering the Bowler's Journal as well.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/18/17 11:15 PM

Yeah, champ, in years past, I've started the nationals thread w/ the oil pattern(s) for the tournament, but, with the USBC not publishing them until after the tournament, I've had no reason to start the thread. I suspect some of the teams that have USBC Masters bowlers will be bowling either this weekend or in the week following next week, after the Masters is over.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/19/17 09:24 AM

When success of a tournament is based on the number of entries, one has to wonder about A Future For The Sport. My own opinion is that the USBC has decided to take advantage of the overall climate of the nationals and turned it into a handicap tournament for the masses. I get the vacation theme, the fun of being in such a huge event, and the social aspect. I just don't agree with it. I also don't view the financial support of the USBC to be my goal in life.

IMO, the sad basis of making the event a fair, level playing field is laughable. Having severe restrictions on the pattern, no video, etc does no good. The people that are there to show up and be donors, will continue to be donors. The best bowlers will simply win by more, because, they are better.

The USBC OC has a long history, and winning an Eagle is still, and always be, very special. But you have perhaps 25 or so teams that have a chance at one, the rest are there to simply fill the coffers.

My broader view is that the OC is starting to look like many leagues. How many positions cash is more important than the competitive aspect. We are in a league which is now typical. The first place team members will never get back that which they paid into the prize fund, never. The fund is whittled down by so many insignificant awards that it gets diluted before the league ends. This, in my view, has made league bowlers less enthused.
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/19/17 11:35 AM

Aside from Jeff Richgels I may have been the most vocal opponent of hiding the pattern. I've done my best to be a thorn in their side, annoying them at whatever chance I could get. Its a stupid rule, does nothing to benefit the tournament, and does in fact hurt the tournament. Its a losing decision.

But I'm still going and really looking forward to it. And there's already plans in place to make the cross country flight to Syracuse next year.

As for the other changes...

Nationals sorely needed a third division if it was going to keep enticing the largest percentage of league bowlers across the country (180-210.) Now those guys have a chance to compete against each other for a title and bracket winnings against their peers rather than have their heads beat in by blue chip teams.

But I also see that it really hurts the draw of the bowlers in that upper division who used to win a lot of bracket money but will now be in the bottom of the division, and who at the same time know they don't have a chance at winning an eagle. Why should they continue to come?

Most agree that its simply an awesome experience. The sheer number of competitors, the grandeur of the atmosphere, the history and prestige, not to mention taking a week off work to go bowling.

For most of us its a lot like buying a lottery ticket. We know we won't win, but that won't stop us from daydreaming. Maybe this is my year!
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/19/17 01:40 PM

I hear ya. But in comparison to the US Open Golf tournament, it's a joke as far as that goes. But those in charge are Picnic and tailgater types.

Perhaps they could just call it the USBC Open, and leave it at that.
But either way, the pattern nonsense only highlights a lot of the sport's troubles.
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/19/17 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: champ


Who is going and when?

I'll be bowling April 13 and 14.


I am in town from the 4th to the 12th and am bowling the 11th and 12th. Perhaps we can throw together a get together?

PS I agree with you and Riggs...no matter how tight you keep the lid on the pattern, SOMEONE knows (more than 1 actually) and once people bowl on it the secrets will get out. The only fair method is publicizing the pattern. I also dislike that they aren't broadcasting any sessions live this year. How do they think this is good??? I didn't catch nearly all of 'em, but I enjoyed watching people who know how to do this game doing it!
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/19/17 07:21 PM

We'll be there April 1 and 2.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Publishing the pattern means squat to the masses of average bowlers like me. We will struggle regardless if we know or don't know in advance. The folks who can do something with the knowledge is a tiny portion of all bowlers.

The USBC likes to do things just to do things, regardless if it make sense.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/19/17 07:41 PM

Knowing how a pattern starts out isn't as important as knowing what to do as that pattern breaks-down. Those who make the proper adjustments and throw the ball in the right place will score and those who don't, won't.

Flat patterns are tough on those who've learned to lean too heavily on 'typical house shots'. Squad times and desert humidity can also play havoc.

For those who are serious, stay out of the casinos, get some sleep and good luck!
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/20/17 02:59 PM

True Goobee. I was embarrassed to read Murphy's post about listening to the 80% of bowlers (really 90+ %), versus the "wealthy".

Almost to a man the best bowlers thought this was a disadvantage to the rest of the entrants. But you're right, the vast majority of bowlers wouldn't know what to do or how to read them anyway.

Most everything I read in his post was [censored] backwards. Particularly when he stated that
"And, many of the recent decisions made were there to support the wealth (being the more active, better players in this analogy) because those were (are) the folks that do all the talking."

He stated that he thought it was funny that many had talked for twenty years about making things harder, and they did.

Yes they did, but it certainly wasn't the average bowler requesting harder conditions, it was the better bowlers.

The thing that rankles me a bit is that in the end, he will claim that the USBC is great, made all of the right decisions because of the "Data". But all they did, including giving freebies to those that hadn't come back in awhile to the OC, was raise entries from what they estimated would be far lower.

In other words, they will have more revenue. His comments for me, undermine his own stated goals about the sports future. It's really about the future of the USBC. [censored] backwards leadership.
Posted by: mmalsed

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/20/17 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: SteveH
I hear ya. But in comparison to the US Open Golf tournament, it's a joke as far as that goes. But those in charge are Picnic and tailgater types.
Perhaps they could just call it the USBC Open, and leave it at that.
But either way, the pattern nonsense only highlights a lot of the sport's troubles.


I don't think comparing it to the PGA US Open is really valid. How many entrants in the US PGA US Open? A few hundred that get cut way down. Plus a professional level payout. Compared to what, hundreds of thousands entering? Wouldn't that make the USBC Open Championship much more "open" than the PGA?


RE: the pattern - I bowled on the pattern prior to last year's and it didn't help me one iota. I have more thought that what was laid down the center here in SoCal may not have been exactly what was at Reno. What ever is! LOL

We're just going to practice on the Sunday morning "pro pattern" that gets set up. Learn to adjust so whatever we see, we should at least be able to adjust a bit. We're under no pretentions that we'll be making any money - personally I'm using it to push myself. As long as I comport myself better than last year, I'll be happy.
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/20/17 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: 82Boat69

For those who are serious, stay out of the casinos, get some sleep


What? and ruin my whole trip?? LoL My USBC trip is an annual vacation, not just a bowling trip. Maybe I am not as serious as I once thought I was going to be...[shrug]
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/20/17 06:02 PM

Originally Posted By: 6_ball_man
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69

For those who are serious, stay out of the casinos, get some sleep


What? and ruin my whole trip?? LoL My USBC trip is an annual vacation, not just a bowling trip. Maybe I am not as serious as I once thought I was going to be...[shrug]


Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/20/17 06:13 PM

The thing that really kills me about not releasing the pattern is the livestreams. I loved those. There was more than once when I scheduled the next day off work so I can stay up and watch a late stream. McNiel's 2012 All-Events is one of them.

I think they were incredible. History was captured and preserved. Entertainment. Education. Promotion of the sport and the tournament.

But now all of that is gone.

And all the top bowlers agree that seeing other bowl on the livestream didn't really give them an edge. Just ask the Vermilyea group. Two Team All Events Eagles in three years while being the first major team to come through.

So we're hiding the pattern which opens questions of fairness, integrity, and transparency. We're losing a tremendous service in the livestreams. We're losing more value in out membership. The tournament is getting less exposure. We're doing less to teach lower average bowlers about the nuances of sport bowling. All of us average Joes agree that knowing the pattern was of no real benefit, and the top bowlers say they never prepare on it anyway.

So while there's a list of negatives, what's the benefit?
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/21/17 06:32 PM

As I launch into my annual news-gathering role, let me know if you want updates on only the Regular division or if the other two divisions are OK, too.

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328614

Team USA member Bryanna Cote was the story of the first weekend of competition, leading every Regular division event, including doubles with her husband, Randy. Bryanna posted 615 in team, 675 in doubles, and 663 in singles for a 1,953 in all-events. Apparel EFX was the Cotes' team.
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/22/17 11:19 PM

Agree with Champ re: the live streams. I feel as a USBC member that's one of the benefits that my dues pay for so I am losing some of the value of my membership. I also don't see any benefit of hiding the streams. The bowlers that live close by can go to the Plaza and scout some of the action anyway, but I also agree that it's not going to help later groups prepare for the tournament that much either way.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 02/24/17 07:23 AM

As the story goes, USBC says the "data" showed that 80% of bowlers thought that it was unfair that some had access to the patterns to play in their own center, unfair advantage and all that. That's hogwash, as many here have stated it wouldn't help them at all anyway.

The lack of coverage via livestreams is a huge negative. Nobody's really following it now because they don't even hear about it. Seeing scores is simply not a big thing.

As always, the best bowlers will end up at the top.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/06/17 03:10 PM

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328681

Lennie Boresch Jr.'s Classic Lanes group now can lay claim to every Regular division lead, as Lennie's Classic Lanes Raisins leads team with 3,158, Lennie and his son Jacob doubles with 1,289, USBC Hall of Famer Gary Daroszewski singles with a 736, and Jacob Boresch all-events with 2,122, including a 760 in team to help his Classic Lanes Kids to second place in that event. Classic Lanes Raisins also now lead TAE with 9,360.
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/07/17 12:01 PM

The first timers on my team were looking forward to practicing on the pattern when they arrive. I told them how much it costs and they said "what?"
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/14/17 09:40 PM

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328727

Two pairs of team event teammates battled for the Regular Doubles lead over the weekend, but, in the end, it was PBA Southwest Region Bowler of the Year Chris Hibbitts (695) & Clint Dacy (625) claiming it with a 1,320 total. They were battling with USBC Hall of Famer Carolyn Dorin Ballard & former Team USA member Steve Smith.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/18/17 01:33 AM

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328750

Kruse's Pro Shop (Fargo, ND) used a near-perfect final frame, with four of the five members recording at least a double, to post a 1,061 game, along with games of 1,021 and 1,116, and take the Regular Team lead with 3,198.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/18/17 06:13 PM

That Brad dude did well
Posted by: dalion

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/21/17 12:03 AM

Is it against policy to post "our opinions" on the pattern after we bowl it?

Course for me its gonna be awhile, im not bowling till the May 25th & 26th.

This will be my 15th straight year!

Not sure what avg their gonna use for me?!? My new "sport adjusted avg", aka based on my USBC Open tourney avg, its 205 but my book is 208.

I too totally disagree w/ their new policy of not publishing the pattern, and also that even w/ it, it really didn't give us much of an advantage. Particually when trying to practice on it. It's 1 thing to give your "Lane oil man" the pattern, its a totally different thing to actually accurately oil that way AND have it match exactly to what you'll see in Vegas. I've done this b4 an every time I got to natl's it was totally different than what I had practiced on. And the live streams? yeah they were nice. U could get somewhat of an idea on where to play/how to attack, but finding a bowler w/ a similar style to you? Not so easy.

Everyone bowls differently, an once u get on the lanes, its just u an the pattern, an all u've got is your knowledge a skills to try an attack it. Seeing what the pattern is, watchin others bowl it, or practicing on it, can't substitute you actually on the lanes bowling it for real.

The main thing u really wanna practice for USBC???? Spare shooting!!!! This will make or break you. Obviously splits u wanna try to avoid but they are inevitable. All u can really do is to try an cut down on them as much as possible, well really all opens.

As for watering down the field and spreading the $$ around thinly? ehhh, are any of us really there to make a living? We're there for the challenge of it. Hell I go just so I can right it off my taxes. I make my $$ in the other tourneys and use USBC for tax write offs =) Course having said that, its been awhile since I came home with OUT a check.
Wow, I just checked and I'd hafta go all the way back to my first trip to nationals in Knoxville 2003 when I came home w/ $0, well should also mention got zip in '05 in Baton Rouge but, that was kind of a weird year: Only got to bowl team, wasn't allowed to bowl dbls/singles due to a train derailment, they closed the convention center BUT they went ahead an paid my entry fee for the next year, so not a total loss. Albuquerque was my smallest check $33.78 which was '08 I believe. wow, interesting. but regardless, its never enough to cover the expense of going.

Good luck out there!
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/21/17 12:35 AM

Originally Posted By: dalion
Is it against policy to post "our opinions" on the pattern after we bowl it?


No, we're allowed to discuss it all we want. I'll be bowling a month from today, and will have a full report when I return.

As for your average, they'll use the higher of the two. Either way, you'll be in the new 180-209 Standard Division.

I like the spreading out of the money. It makes it easier for more 190-210 types to justify the expense of going. If we're not getting our heads beat-in by professional caliber bowlers in the brackets and prize fund, its easier to decide to go.

But just like you, I'm not going for money either. A nice check at the end or a good day in the brackets is certainly nice, but that's not that point. The last two years I've come home without winning a penny.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/21/17 10:02 AM

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328756

Tony Buck (Rockford, MI), despite being a consistent performer, had never posted a number for others to chase until Sunday in Regular Singles, where he worked with the other lefties on his pair to post 267-224-277 for 768.
Posted by: dalion

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/22/17 02:58 PM

Apparently there are some videos posted on the USBCOpenChamp facebook page.
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/22/17 10:22 PM

Originally Posted By: dalion
Apparently there are some videos posted on the USBCOpenChamp facebook page.


And if you go watch them its becoming exceedingly clear that the shot is outside. Today they posted final shots of a 299 and a 300 bowled in the Bowlers Journal; both bowlers playing the 2-3 board.

I don't know about you guys, but that's to my liking. In the summer sport league I used to bowl cheetah was always my best pattern, by a long margin. And that's what the reports rolling in are...it plays like cheetah with more oil up front.

Pack your smooth rolling equipment.
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/22/17 11:16 PM

That's encouraging for those of us that do not have a lot of hand. If I can play out there without having to worry about keeping my speed down, that would be really really good.
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/24/17 02:35 AM

At El Paso and Reno, I played very conservatively lines with little success.

My driller/coach suggested I try playing deep inside this year. He and I bowl in the same league and we also go to Nationals. As such, he knows my game pretty well. The plan is to come out swinging with more aggressive equipment. I recently had a new ball drilled up especially for this, a Track Cyborg. If the Track Cyborg is too much, I'll drop down to the ebonite Gamebreaker 2.

If worse comes to worse, I can fall back to my weaker equipment and go back to conservative. frown
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/25/17 04:24 PM

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328821

A group of current and former collegiate players rewrote the Regular Doubles standings yesterday, led by Midland teammates Nick Pate (Inner Grove Heights, MN) & Casey Maxted (Gillette, WY), who took the event lead with a 760-576=1,336 total.

On the same pair, a 7-10 stopped former Junior Team USA member Kyle Sherman (O'Fallon, MO) from posting the first 300 game of the tournament after posting the first 300 of the Bowlers Journal Championships earlier in the week.
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/25/17 05:17 PM

I had a break out day of sorts shooting 257 in league today. It means a lot to me because I've been slumping so long. I'm feeling good, my timing was better and my accuracy was steady all day. I hit the pocket more often than missing (carry was a bit challenging though) and got to practice playing 10 board straight up.

Today bolstered my confidence going into Nationals next weekend. Now whether or not this makes a difference, we shall see. grin
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/26/17 11:58 AM

Scores are going up in minor events. Earlier in the week there was a 299/827 and a 300 shot in the Bowlers Jounal on the D/S pattern. The gentleman who shot the 300 also went on to shoot a 298 in Doubles (with a pocket 7-10 on the last ball) in the tournament proper.

And yesterday, Matt Gasn took the lead in singles with an 802. Some years we might think a win is already in the books, but I think the scores are getting to be too good on the D/S pattern now that good bowlers are starting to flock in. The question is the team pattern...it still looks pretty challenging.

Let the score speculation begin.

Team 3340
Doubles 1420
Singles 826
All-Events 2180
Team All-Events 10,100
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/26/17 05:30 PM

Well the big boys are coming in now, and they've all met with other teams, scouted out the lanes, formulated their plans.

Of course it helps when nobody cares how long you take, everyone's gone but your team. The favoritism at the Open will never change.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/26/17 05:35 PM

Did you see last night how the USBC video treated Jackie, Matt's girlfriend? The one that beat him in doubles? When she bowled, the video went up to the scores, not her bowling.

How elitist of them
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/26/17 05:56 PM

I'm bowling May 27th and 28th. Right now, I have available to take:

Storm IQ Fusion
Story Hy-Road
Storm Phaze
Storm Tropical Heat Hybrid
Storm Tropical Heat Solid
Storm Pitch Blue
Radical Guru

Fusion, Phaze, and Pitch Blue are the only locks to go. I am looking to buy a ball or 2 before I head out. Probably a Code Black. The Dare Devil Trick looks awesome. The Sure Lock is on my list as well.
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/26/17 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: SteveH
Well the big boys are coming in now, and they've all met with other teams, scouted out the lanes, formulated their plans.

Of course it helps when nobody cares how long you take, everyone's gone but your team. The favoritism at the Open will never change.

I've been thinking about this and what the USBC could do to make it a fairer tournament for all bowlers involved with respect to the patterns and here's my idea:

Have 3 or 4 different shots for the team event and singles/doubles. As is the case this year, the pattern graphs are not released until after the tournament. Before each squad a random draw takes place in secret and that's what gets put down for that session. So if you go the day before and watch other bowlers and try to see what their ball reaction is and how they're playing the lanes; the shot may be different for your group when it's your turn to bowl. Same deal for early groups passing along info to groups that are going later.

The only drawback I see to this is that bowlers won't have a chance to go to the showcase lanes and practice on the exact shot they'll be bowling on. They'll get one of the patterns and it will still serve a purpose to bowlers who rarely or never otherwise bowl on sport shots since it will give them a little more of an idea of what to expect.

But this way the live streams can continue and it would still be the same idea of "be prepared for something in the range of 38-42'" but with the top tier teams having to go in with imperfect information like the rest of us.
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/27/17 12:20 AM

Originally Posted By: SteveH
Of course it helps when nobody cares how long you take, everyone's gone but your team. The favoritism at the Open will never change.


And really, should they? This is a national championship. Its the biggest tournament in bowling. Winning is a big deal. Even if Gasn's 802 doesn't win, that's only the 127th 800 ever bowled in the tournament. Do they really need to rush the guy so the next squad doesn't start 15 minutes late?
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/27/17 06:44 AM

Originally Posted By: champ
Originally Posted By: SteveH
Of course it helps when nobody cares how long you take, everyone's gone but your team. The favoritism at the Open will never change.


And really, should they? This is a national championship. Its the biggest tournament in bowling. Winning is a big deal. Even if Gasn's 802 doesn't win, that's only the 127th 800 ever bowled in the tournament. Do they really need to rush the guy so the next squad doesn't start 15 minutes late?


You tell me. The USBC uses the word FAIR more than anyone. But politics is always job number one. Do they really need to rush the donors that score lower? Tell them to wait until summer to be able to receive a DVD, while their favorite groups can have a 10-minute video posted online by the USBC itself?

Yes, they should enforce the rules for everyone as equally as possible. Remember, the ED is the guy that's all about the masses, the majority, the fairness and the quality. So he stated.
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/27/17 10:16 AM

I'm not interested in politics. I'm interested in bowling. I don't care who the executive director is, what his policies are, yada, yada, yada.

I care that this tournament is about the most prestigious thing you can win in bowling. As long as that's protected, I'm happy.

I agree, the no video policy is a bad one. I've been very vocal about that from the day it was announced. Showing a clip of people bowling 300s/800s/taking leads, isn't about favoring elitism over the little guy. Its about sharing and showcasing excellence (which the USBC said they'd be doing from the beginning.)

If I were in charge, I would't have so many weeks in late February/early March filled with squads of 5-10 teams. Shorten the length of the tournament, fill each squad to capacity, and put more buffer room between squads. To me, waiting 20-30 minutes for my squad isn't a big deal at all, but some of the guys I hear whining about it must really want to bowl, get home, and get back to work ASAP. So to quiet the whiners, I'd make some more buffer time in between squads.

And with that, there will be no question about taking your time, slowing down, and enjoying the moment, whether your bowling for a lead or a last place finish.

And while I'm not in charge, and I can't change the schedule, I can encourage everyone to take a deep breath, relax, and enjoy the history and majesty of this tournament. Its ok to wait 20 minutes for the slow team in front of your team. You'll be alright. It won't ruin your experience. And if you'd stop worrying about the politics of USBC, you'd enjoy your experience a whole lot more too.

I leave in three weeks. Can't wait.

Bowl well.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/28/17 11:43 AM

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328825

Already been alluded to in the thread, but Matt Gasn (Clarksville, TN) bowled 251-286-265 for an 802 and the lead in Regular Singles, and it helped his Vanilla Salsa team (Roseville, CA) into the Team All-Events lead (9,743). The 802 was the first 800 of the tournament; trying to remember when the last time the tournament saw an 800 series before a 300 game was.

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328832

Sunday, Robert Leser (Fenton, MI) & Darin Craine (Burton, MI) posted a collective 1,342 score to take the Regular Doubles lead. Article linked above also notes to changes to leads in the Standard and Classified divisions.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/31/17 03:01 PM

http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328862

Probably won't say much other than the new Regular Team leaders are NEBA champions all. smile
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/31/17 03:46 PM

We'll be there tonight. Hitting the practice pairs at 10:00 PM.
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 03/31/17 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Richie V.
http://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328862

Probably won't say much other than the new Regular Team leaders are NEBA champions all. smile


I knew you'd like that. I know a lot of people who put Tony Reynaud on the list of bowlers who really deserve to win a Eagle. Time will tell. It will be a good finish either way.

But its looking like the D/S pattern is definitely the nicer of the two. A 300 was shot today, and an 802 by another bowler tying the lead in singles.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/01/17 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: champ
But its looking like the D/S pattern is definitely the nicer of the two. A 300 was shot today, and an 802 by another bowler tying the lead in singles.


Maybe balancing a hard team pattern? Don't get me wrong, though, b/c it should be hard to win the team Eagle; it's the one they all want. smile
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/01/17 02:37 PM

USBC's current leadership definitely wants to protect the team scores. After 2014, when 3720 was shot, and it took 3500 to be in the top 10, the team event pattern has been much, much harder. Not that the D/S pattern is easy (its not by a long shot) but they at least give you a little more shape to work with in D/S.

It goes to show how good the nation's best teams are though. 2014 was my first year bowling the tournament. Everyone was talking how high the scores were and the lanes were soft. These guys think 2.6:1 was soft! I went and struggled my way to 540 and was amazed anyone could think they were easy. The next two years however, when the patterns dropped to under 2:1 was really eye opening.

Matt Gasn said on an above180 interview that the first team to 3300 this year is probably the winner.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/01/17 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: champ
But its looking like the D/S pattern is definitely the nicer of the two. A 300 was shot today, and an 802 by another bowler tying the lead in singles.


Finally saw the bowl.com article on that. Todd Lathrop, one of the members of the Silver Lanes team that currently leads the team event, bowled the 300 in singles, which was the first of the tournament. Lots to like out of the weekend, but there's a strong group mostly from New England to bowl this month, Chris Viale's Cambridge Credit group. I believe one of the younger Westgate bowlers will be on the companion team.
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/02/17 01:22 PM

I leave for Vegas Tuesday and am staying at the 4 Queens downtown until Sunday. Then we move to Southpoint for the duration. I bowl team @ 530pm Tuesday 4/11 and D/s @ 1pm Wednesday 4/12, then return home on the red-eye that night. I have relatives out there that I plan on visiting with but will have plenty of time to get together and have a pop or a practice or a 40frame game squad or a run at a dice table or something///get ahold of me here and I can PM my phone number if you want
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/03/17 02:13 PM

Getting ready to check out and leave Vegas. Day 1 I did OK, posted a 573 in team. Day 2 was horrible, not worth mentioning. I found the team pattern not as hard as doubles/singles, go figure. I'll post more information if anyone is interested after I get home tonight. Note: You are repeatedly warned both verbally and in print about the no video taping policy which I found annoying.
Posted by: mmalsed

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/03/17 06:14 PM

I'm interested - we head over there on the 29/30th.
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/03/17 08:57 PM

Goobee, 573 in team is very solid. Good bowling. We'd all love a recap.
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/04/17 01:22 AM

Based on my poor experience with last year's practice lanes, I was going to skip it this year. My team consisting of 4 first timers who really wanted to practice so I obliged them. Again, the practice lanes were nothing like the actual conditions. I recommend skipping the practice lanes as they are expensive and do nothing to help you form your strategies.

Team Pattern:

Unless you have a lot of hand and ball speed (neither of which I possess), deep inside lines are very tough to play. Most of my shots immediately wanted to move left as soon as it left my hand. I tried standing at 30 and 35 boards and it took extreme effort to get the ball out. Many shots immediately took off and headed to the 7-pin. When I did get it out far enough, there was no energy left when it struck the pocket.

Outside, I played with 7, 8, 9 & 10 boards with varying results. More often or not, it looked like I was in the pocket but I was leaving 4 pins. Obviously the entry angle was incorrect. 6 board I think was the shot but I couldn't consistently hit it. Any misses right of 6 board, you were in no man's land, the ball would not recover.

I settled with a shallow inside line, standing 20 and targeting 15. I used my Motiv Rebel Tank which is a modern pearl urethane. It gave me just enough tail movement to finish in the pocket and leave easy spares. Strikes were hard to come by, in 3 games, I believe I had 9 or so strikes. I picked up most of my spares, with only 1 open in each game.

Doubles and Singles:

You are only given 6 minutes practice so I tried as many lines as possible.

I first tried using the Rebel Tank and shallow inside line from the day before which I had some success with. No deal. Where I had a 5 board tail before, the ball just slid all the way down. I changed to a reactive ball and it went through the nose. I moved further inside and I moved outside as well. 6 minutes expired and I still did not have a plan.

From the outside, my ball would not finish. Either I didn't have enough surface or my low rev was the problem. Moving right and trying to angle the ball in would result in the ball going through the nose.

Inside, it was inconsistent. At one point, I threw 6 shots in a row solid in the pocket with only two strikes (3 ten pins and a 9 pin leaves). I tried moving my feet to fine tune and lost the shot completely after a while.

Spares were insanely hard to pick up, especially the left side. Left of 5 pin, balls took off like a scalded dog.

When I wasn't missing easy spares, I was getting killed by splits and washouts. Over/under was my enemy. I ended the day confused and abused by the shot.

Before leaving, I talked to one of the Storm reps. Her recommendation was a strong ball with surface (500) and playing outside for Doubles/Singles. Of course, she was also recommending her balls to accomplish this.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/04/17 11:09 AM

Originally Posted By: goobee
Getting ready to check out and leave Vegas. Day 1 I did OK, posted a 573 in team. Day 2 was horrible, not worth mentioning. I found the team pattern not as hard as doubles/singles, go figure. I'll post more information if anyone is interested after I get home tonight. Note: You are repeatedly warned both verbally and in print about the no video taping policy which I found annoying.


Looking forward to reading your take on the conditions. I am following a thread on /r/bowling on Reddit. There are a bunch of people who are posting what they are seeing. After looking there and from takes I've seen on FB, it looks like it is playing somewhat outside with controlled equipment. I was going back and forth with John Brockland. I mentioned getting the balls I listed above and he thought something more mid-ranged is going to work the best. Or, a strong ball with a weaker drilling.

I've seen a lot of posts about the warnings about taping. It's complete BS if you ask me. I want to start taking pictures of all of the staff out there smile
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/04/17 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: General Pounder

I've seen a lot of posts about the warnings about taping. It's complete BS if you ask me. I want to start taking pictures of all of the staff out there smile


I don't know if only team captains, or every participant gets an end of tournament survey, but I hope everyone who gets one, lets USBC know what a boneheaded rule change and policy this is.

I know I'll be getting a survey, and I look forward to eviscerating them on the issue.
Posted by: mmalsed

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/05/17 11:45 AM

I didn't get one for last year. . . smirk
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/08/17 05:12 PM

Junior Team USA Support 1 is bowling the team event tonight at 5:30. Vegas time. If you're as much of a nerd as me, you might want to follow the live scoring found here: http://southpoint.meriq.com/southpointplaza/

These guys are always great to follow along with. I'm sure they'll take the lead in something before the weekend is over.
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/09/17 11:47 PM

Well, that certainly didn't turn out the way I thought it would.

Next big team up is Team NABR. They bowl the 13th and 14th.

I'll be getting there on Saturday. Plan to bowl a couple squads of the Bowlers Journal on Sunday, and then the tournament proper on Monday and Tuesday the 17th and 18th.
Posted by: rrb6699 (RayRay)

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/10/17 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By: General Pounder
Originally Posted By: goobee
Getting ready to check out and leave Vegas. Day 1 I did OK, posted a 573 in team. Day 2 was horrible, not worth mentioning. I found the team pattern not as hard as doubles/singles, go figure. I'll post more information if anyone is interested after I get home tonight. Note: You are repeatedly warned both verbally and in print about the no video taping policy which I found annoying.


Looking forward to reading your take on the conditions. I am following a thread on /r/bowling on Reddit. There are a bunch of people who are posting what they are seeing. After looking there and from takes I've seen on FB, it looks like it is playing somewhat outside with controlled equipment. I was going back and forth with John Brockland. I mentioned getting the balls I listed above and he thought something more mid-ranged is going to work the best. Or, a strong ball with a weaker drilling.

I've seen a lot of posts about the warnings about taping. It's complete BS if you ask me. I want to start taking pictures of all of the staff out there smile


taping what? what are these warnungs?

rr
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/10/17 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By: rrb6699 (RayRay) [/quote


taping what? what are these warnungs?

rr


With some strict exceptions, we the bowler (aka paying customer) are not permitted to record bowling on the lanes, in protection of the super secret lane pattern.
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/10/17 09:23 PM

The warnings are in the printed materials handed out to partipants, posted on the walls of the venue and spoken as an admonishment during the squad room presentation. Violators will be asked to leave, both players and spectators. Pretty harsh if you ask me.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/10/17 11:29 PM

Another year or two of Chad Murphy, and the Open Championships may just be the data they need to get rid of him.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/11/17 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: champ
Well, that certainly didn't turn out the way I thought it would.

Next big team up is Team NABR. They bowl the 13th and 14th.

I'll be getting there on Saturday. Plan to bowl a couple squads of the Bowlers Journal on Sunday, and then the tournament proper on Monday and Tuesday the 17th and 18th.


Cambridge Credit group will be there this weekend, as well, although I think the O'Keefes will not be with them, so it's an all-New England group. champ, this would be Bill Webb's group, so I hope you run into him again. smile
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/14/17 11:46 PM

Looks like NABR is the team to beat. Their team score might hold on for a win, but their Team All-Events is looking like a lock. Rose and Pohl won't actually be bowling until early May, but with 37 of 45 games bowled, they're already +797. That's huge.

What say you guys?

I'm leaving early Saturday morning. I might bowl a BJ squad that night, but more than likely just do a couple on Sunday. A report to come. Can't wait to bowl.

Love this tournament.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/15/17 12:00 PM

The Cambridge group I follow both landed in the top 40 in team, and one of the "B" team bowlers nearly got into the top 10 in singles (with a 722).
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/17/17 11:55 AM

I was "less than successful." It was TOUGH. I knew it was going to be tough going in, but sometimes tough is stupid tough. An example: I missed right on a shot and left the 1248. Nothing unusual about that. However, when I put the spare attempt exactly, precisely where I wanted it, in the 12, somehow the 8 remained.

I hooked away from two singles (with my polished urethane) before changing spare tactics and threw a back up ball at most all my simple spares. Picked a baby that way. The only other time I did something successful was looking at a 39 (left it 3 times) and finding more ways to miss it than make it in my head...on sudden inspiration, I took the ball one down in my strike arsenal, moved out and pitched it straight up the 3 board and that actually worked!
Had two instances where the strike attempt went through the 3 pin and left the 1246T. On the fist one I went left side and put the headpin around both the 6 and ten. 2nd time I put it between the 1 and 6 and left the ten. The USBC topped it off by putting up the "pick up the pace" banner at the start of game 3 of singles. My wife saw the smoke coming off the top of my head from the stands and came down to talk me down. Good thing. I would have said or done something REALLY stupid otherwise (prolly). I am over it now, but I cannot wait for the survey they send out every year. I have a doozy of a suggestion for them. LoL

OTOH - it wasn't just tough for me...I shot 466 in team and somehow got $130 back in bracket money. We have 3 eagle winners in our group and none had a 600. It is hard, and house bowling in no way got me ready for it. I need to find a tough shot league where the guys do not mind having a 150 shooter around...
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/17/17 03:22 PM

You hit it square on the nose 6_ball_man. The lanes were indeed "stupid tough". My assessment above parallels your experience. I fail to see the logic for making the pattern this difficult. Where is the incentive for people to come back when they are demoralized this badly?
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/18/17 01:57 AM

I've been here a couple days. I've shot three squads of the Bowlers Journal, a team practice session, and the Team Event today.

The two patterns are very different from each other. That's what all the reports I have seen have said, and they were correct.

I thought the team practice session and the actual Team Event played pretty similar. I found there was a nice hook spot around 6-8 downlane. Hit that area and I had good ball motion. No hold inside, but some extra swing room outside of 6 to still tickle the pocket.

I shot 534 in Team which featured four opens and some very bad carry. I have a lefty team mate who shot 641. As a team we shot 2500...not bad for our group, in the Standard Division.

Tomorrow I bowl D/S at 1:00 local time. I'll find out if its similar to what is in the Bowler's Journal, and all reports here say that it is. My three attempts there have resulted in 505, 566, and 580. We'll see how that helps for tomorrow.

So far its been a good trip, and South Point has been a good venue. My only disappointment so far was the $130 bill for four people at the buffet. That stung a bit. Won it back in brackets today smile
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/18/17 11:14 PM

Day 2 was a little uglier.

To me, the D/S pattern plays A LOT like PBA shark pattern. There is a definite out of bounds outside of 10. The difference being on this pattern, there is no hold as you move in. On the Shark there is enough volume in the middle to get tom hold. The more I moved in, the earlier the hook was. I knew that, and only tried it a few shots just to confirm I wasn't assuming anything.

I shot a lousy 469 in doubles and 560 in singles. My last game was a very solid and clean 215 which was my only 200 including the nine games I bowled in the bowlers journal.

Altogether I shot a disappointing 1543. I know my execution was as good as its every been at Nationals, however, in both events I had a one board breakpoint. Just one board in either direction and I was lucky to knock down seven pins. I honest believe that with another board to work with I could have easily shot 1800.

It was a good tournament. Good experience again. And very much looking forward to the long trek to Syracuse in 2018.

Oh and I never miss an opportunity to post that the new no pattern release rule is buffoonery at best.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/19/17 07:34 AM

There are a select few that have posted very big scores. I've read a ton of reports as to the lane conditions in D/S and teams, mostly conflicting reports.

The confusing thing for me is that the USBC stated last year that their surveys showed that most bowlers wanted the tough shot, and felt that not revealing the shot and having no videos benefitted the average bowler. Almost to a man, the pros and elite bowlers scoffed at this notion and stated that they would have an even larger advantage over the average bowler. They were correct.

I know the USBC wants to use the term Integrity all the time, and feels the shot should be truly difficult. But at the same time, they make the shot tougher than the vast majority of bowlers will ever see, regardless of whether they bowl on sport conditions or not. One pro bowler likened the shot to a 1.5:1 flat shot.

To compound the harm, next year's Syracuse OC will force most bowlers to schedule early morning and late night squads. Quite a bit of interest here in the east from bowlers that could drive over there, like me. But there's very little interest when you combine the squad times with the venue itself.
Posted by: mmalsed

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/19/17 11:38 AM

completely agree with you, SteveH.

I won't be making Syracuse next year. Difference in prices between flying to LV (where everyone goes) and Syracuse (where? LOL)
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/19/17 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By: SteveH
I know the USBC wants to use the term Integrity all the time, and feels the shot should be truly difficult. But at the same time, they make the shot tougher than the vast majority of bowlers will ever see, regardless of whether they bowl on sport conditions or not. One pro bowler likened the shot to a 1.5:1 flat shot.


There are lot's of stories floating around the booth here about how vocally whinny Pete Weber was when he came through. He barely cracked 1700, and let everyone know that we shouldn't be bowling on patterns so much harder than what they face on the PBA tour.

And while most scoffed at his attitude, pretty much everyone agrees about the patterns. Really, they're too tough. Especially if you want to continue to entice 10,000 teams.

In my opinion, the standard should be about where it was in 2014. Scores were very high by USBC standards, but all things considered, they were at a good level. Almost everyone still struggled to hit what they thought they should, but it wasn't as brutal. And they great teams shot 3500s. But in today's bowling, is there anything wrong with great teams shooting 3500?

I think 3720 was some kind of nightmare for the traditionalists, and they never want to go there again. But the paying customer has to suffer.

I'm not whining. I love the tournament and will bowl on it if they decided to put out flat 1:1 pattern. I have nothing but admiration for the people who find a way to put up the scores that win. But the USBC needs to stop pretending its 1960 still. Times changed. Scores changed. You can put out a shot that demands skill to score on and still give the people something to work with.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/19/17 04:06 PM

Yeah it seems only a special few really get the pattern. Of course, only special people get to bowl so slowly they end up all alone out there too, with video coverage.

But some do very well on the pattern, and it's not really a surprise that those bowling now and later have done very, very well. Lots of time and effort into analyzing both the pattern discussions and team strategy.

The story behind how they got to this year's number of teams amounts to bribery and begging.
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/19/17 06:28 PM

Our bowling center sent 12 teams this year, mainly because Vegas is close (~250 miles). Of the participants, many were first timers and didn't have a clue what to expect. Many will not be returning. The organizers are trying to line up donors...er...teams for 2018 and are having problems fielding 2 teams. what does that tell you?

After 3 consecutive years (El Paso, Reno and Las Vegas) I will not be going to Syracuse.

The USBC may be interested in protecting the "integrity of the sport" but they are doing a half-ass job of furthering people's interest in it.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/19/17 06:28 PM

update Ryan Reid 259 first game singles.
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/20/17 12:45 PM


Zerocuse is a no brainer for me...only 90 miles away, I can actually drive home to sleep if I want to. A lot of my west coat friends will not make the trip, I am guessing...I will put a team together that doesn't bowl with my annual nominal group [shrug]
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/20/17 09:57 PM

I'd love to go there because it's not that far, five hours or so. But the time slots absolutely suck.
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/20/17 11:09 PM

Originally Posted By: SteveH
I'd love to go there because it's not that far, five hours or so. But the time slots absolutely suck.


Only the 7am and 10:45pm squads suck. There are other options. Don't let the opinions of facebook whiners convince you not to participate when its so close to home.
Posted by: mmalsed

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/22/17 06:56 PM

Originally Posted By: champ
Originally Posted By: SteveH
I'd love to go there because it's not that far, five hours or so. But the time slots absolutely suck.

Only the 7am and 10:45pm squads suck. There are other options. Don't let the opinions of facebook whiners convince you not to participate when its so close to home.
this!
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 04/22/17 07:53 PM

Not listening to opinions, just schedules.
Posted by: mmalsed

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/01/17 12:01 PM

so - went this last weekend with my F-in-law and wife and a couple of friends to fill out the team. Here is my impressions:

First, the hotel. I really like Southpoint. Rooms are nice - nothing special, but clean and nice. I like the place. I like not having to drive INTO Vegas to get to it, lol. I have only ONE beef: We KNOW that the morning (9am) squad is going to get out later than checkout, and RIGHT UP AGAINST the late checkout deadline . . . so can we get a little leeway? It's not like the hotel doesn't know this. . . and we'll be at Southpoint again in two years and again in two years after that. . . c'mon, please?

Second, the arena. Really liked this. Nice center. Nicely placed. LOTS of room for equipment so I really didn't feel like I had to cram my 4-ball-roller in someplace. PLENTY of room for balls, even during team event. I liked the digital displays at the back, even more as I played with them just a bit. Really good wifi coverage (I used bowlsk during my squads). Yes, it was cool - but I LIKE that! LOL

Third, the squad area. Okay, c'mon people. You KNOW that we have people sitting in the seats, with bowling equipment there too . . . let's figure out how to make enough SPACE for it rather than berating people for putting their equipment where it wasn't supposed to go. I mean, seriously? You KNOW it's a problem. . . and a solution should NOT cost you money, just use the space more efficiently.

Fourth, the squad meeting. This thing drags on and on. Yes, the awards are nice, but go in some order maybe? smile

Okay - to the bowling. Caveats (err, excuses) - I've been nursing a strained back for over a week, so yeah, that's what I'm blaming it all on! smile http://www.bowlsk.com/games/view-tournament.html?tournament=5177813510389760

I found it TIGHT on both patterns. If I was relaxed, stroked the ball smoothly and really hit my mark with the right speed, I could strike. Unfortunately, I kept leaving it outside, which was WAY out of bounds. Then I had multiple-pin pickups, which were hit and miss. In the 65% range.

For the team event, I used my Crux at 1000 grit. I could get it to go right down 10 and work nicely, but then I started tensing up and throwing wild and it did NOT have enough surface to get back. My Marvel did, but I didn't trust it enough, and I was all over anyway at that point.

For Dbls/Sgls, it was a longer pattern, so I started with my Marvel S at 500. Honestly, I should have taken everything down to 500. If I stroked it nicely, I could do nicely. But zero leeway. I also REALLY need new inserts - they have sharp edges and just gouged at my fingertips. My own fault, workable but painful.

I was, of course, my own worst enemy. I only marked in 5 (of 9) tenth frames. No clean games - and I was leaving left-side spares, and I had just spent time practicing a loose left-side throw to pick them up. . . sigh.


It was fun. Exhausting, but fun. I was a true pleasure to watch my F-in-law bowl in this at 83. Two years ago he was on a stretcher being rushed into emergency open heart surgery and once he was brought back, he nearly lost his fingers and toes (because of the aortic pump they put in to keep his brain going. . . too bad they missed THAT part! LOL) - he has them all and can bowl. We got him some new shoes to help him slide better now that he can't really feel his toes, and bang, he's out there. The 5th and 6th games really wore him out, but he plugged through. smile SO proud of him!

It was also fun bowling with my wife. Really have to figure out a couple of issues with her fit, but she bowled her average or thereabouts the whole time for dbls/sgls. Very proud of her!

We won't be going to Syracuse, but will likely go when it comes back West. smile
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/02/17 03:01 PM

Originally Posted By: SteveH
Not listening to opinions, just schedules.


My team captain reserved for next year at the end of March and got an 11am squad one day and 2:30 the other but he told me even at that point a lot of the favorable days/times were already gone.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/02/17 09:53 PM

Originally Posted By: wronghander
Originally Posted By: SteveH
Not listening to opinions, just schedules.

My team captain reserved for next year at the end of March and got an 11am squad one day and 2:30 the other but he told me even at that point a lot of the favorable days/times were already gone.


Like I stated, just looking at reality.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/02/17 10:09 PM

I started my bowling at age 52, and league back in the 2010 season. I've heard it all from the old timers to the new young bowlers, leagues that are scratch and fun leagues, now sports leagues.

There is no doubt in my mind that if bowling as a sport is to continue, people age 30 and under have to love this game. If they don;t, those that control it are so incredibly out of touch, they are killing it. Just absolutely killing it. Bowlers and proprietors are also culpable. We all are really.

It's not the nonsense of the back in the day people so much, it's the selfish nature of competition. More $$$ centric than bowling centric. People that are no shows at league because the positions are already set for the end of league. People that start asking for subs after the first half, knowing their little prize fund will pay for their absence.

Frankly, I've grown to love the sport in a very short while. But I've never in my life seen a game so sadly in need of a spark to keep it going. I've come to see that it's not that the USBC leadership doesn't care, it's that their myopic vision doesn't allow for any understanding of what's going on in the real world. Many local and state associations are a complete joke, yet they need to depend on them. The house shots are definitely a joke, but the Open Championships humble professionals.

Rebuild from the ground up with people that understand all bowlers, not just the elite.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/02/17 11:27 PM

When I was young, proprietors almost gave bowling away to young bowlers because they knew it was a way to pay it forward. As juniors, we would bowl at 9 AM on Saturdays and then go to another house and shoot again at noon. All for about $2.50 :-)

I think too many young people are living 'virtually' through their electronic devices and not out there living their 'real' lives :-)

I think bowling will pass into history. I hope not, but I'm not seeing any activity by the USBC, Proprietors or bowlers themselves that would convince me it might go the other way.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/03/17 07:25 AM

The USBC has focused 100% of their attention to competitive bowling, clearly separating league bowling from competitive bowling. From Junior/Youth on up, they realized that the "Future for the sport" is a rebuild in progress. I can't say I disagree with that focus, as the proprietors own the rest of bowling.

The only people that can do anything about league bowling per se, are the bowlers themselves. Like everyone else it seems, we have trouble getting adults to take it seriously. The Sport part of bowling is all tournaments, some good scratch leagues and what have you. League bowling for the most part is recreational, mixed handicap leagues. Nothing wrong with that either, it's been that way going back to Fred Flinstone.

Proprietors have done what they've done to keep the doors open. But many of the private centers have not reinvested, some are sitting on pricey real estate, others have families that want no part of it anymore. Most of the new centers built are either boutique centers of entertainment businesses. Many have no leagues, and many are not sanctioned.
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/03/17 03:37 PM

It also doesn't help when major owners such as Bowlmor look past leagues as part of their business model.
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/03/17 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: goobee
It also doesn't help when major owners such as Bowlmor look past leagues as part of their business model.


Leagues were never part of their business model. Leagues are only part of the model for some new centers, and mostly old centers. Heck, even the USBC doesn't consider leagues part of their existing model.

The reason is $$$. You could have 10,000 people ready to bowl in a group. The least profitable of all for new centers is league bowlers. The ones that complain the most for existing centers is, league bowlers. The ones that want to pay the least while demanding the most are, league bowlers.

League bowlers have made themselves persona non grata
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/12/17 09:17 AM


Scoring alert: PDW shot 1714 at the Open
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/13/17 11:37 AM

Anyone watching the live stream from Nationals last night got to see some of the very finest from my area. BowlingDynamics, who was 3rd in Team and 4th in Team All Events last year, just settled into 2nd place in team event this year.

Their captain, Dave Cirigliano, is probably on the list for best bowlers at the Open without an Eagle. He has eight prior top 10 finishes, he's one of only two bowlers with three 300s at the Open, and he's 8th on the average list of bowlers with 30 years. And the rest of the team and their companion team are no slouches either. I'd love to see Dave take the lead in doubles today.

Their performance may say something about NABR's 3266 as well. Time will tell. Matt McNiel's team bowls the first weekend in June, and Chris Barnes' star studded team bowls in early July.

Plenty of good bowling to go.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/13/17 02:12 PM

Originally Posted By: champ
Their performance may say something about NABR's 3266 as well. Time will tell. Matt McNiel's team bowls the first weekend in June, and Chris Barnes' star studded team bowls in early July.

Plenty of good bowling to go.


McNiel's team is loaded. Alex Aguiar, one of the best in New England, will be joining McNiel's group after bowling with Doug Kent's group for many years.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/14/17 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: champ
Their captain, Dave Cirigliano, is probably on the list for best bowlers at the Open without an Eagle. He has eight prior top 10 finishes, he's one of only two bowlers with three 300s at the Open, and he's 8th on the average list of bowlers with 30 years. And the rest of the team and their companion team are no slouches either. I'd love to see Dave take the lead in doubles today.


HA! I was just talking to the other person on this list last month. Craig Szplett runs the Pro Shop at Palos Lanes where I bowl Tuesday nights. When he had 2 of them, I talked with him about it. He said that he was surprised that the list was so small. When he had #3 a few years ago, there was a cool article about it.

http://www.bowlingdigital.com/bowl/node/12262

Very good guy too. It's awesome to see these kids of records.
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/22/17 02:44 PM

I am here in Vegas. Had a chance to go down and watch the late team squad last night. Amazing place. Saw a few lefties throwing it out to around 8 at the down lane markers and getting strikes. One of them was pretty rev impaired too. Got a practice session tomorrow night so we will see how it plays for me but I like what I saw and I think it will be a matter of whether I can hit my target.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/24/17 10:29 AM

I leave on Friday and bowl Sat at 5:30 and Sunday at 1. I'm looking forward to it. Been a long time since I have hung out with this group of friends. I'm going to need to go into detox for a while afterward though smile
Posted by: mmalsed

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/24/17 11:48 AM

LOL
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/24/17 10:07 PM

Outside the squad room, there's a vendor selling "beer" dogs. Supposedly they are cooked in beer or something. I had one, wasn't bad.
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/25/17 03:17 AM

Didn't see that but I've eaten enough junk food on this trip, LOL. Coronado Cafe at South Point is pretty good though FWIW. If you're bowling a late squad especially they have some good after midnight specials. Had a late practice on Tuesday and got a steak dinner with eggs, toast and hash browns for $5.

Anyway bowled team today and shot 195+151+208=554. Shot played different in practice with less friction, at least on the left side. Had my Pyramid Antidote that I just got before coming out here and took that down to 500 and got through the first game clean with only 4 strikes and no doubles. Got through the first game shooting at mostly single pins. Did have a chance to strike in the 11th for a 200 but threw my worst shot and went 3 off the left before cleaning it up on the final bal. Second game ran into problems and ball stopped finishing. Wasted a couple of frames making bad adjustments. I eventually figured out that I had to move my feet left but keep my downlane target the same which was 10 at the markers. Had to do this a couple of times, had 1 other lefty bowling with me near the same area. I mostly hit hit my target in the 3rd game (at least at the arrows) but had some shots with either too much speed or not getting it off my hand cleanly resulting in some multi=pin combos. A little frustrating because I was very careful all night (the 11th of game 1 notwitstanding) to not swing the ball out but I do struggle with slowing down my ball speed. Fortunately didn't washout on my headpin misses and was able to convert the 1,3,9 both times I left it as well as the bucket, double wood, and 3,5,9 which I left on the light hits all while going straight at them and with no spare ball. Did have an early double in that game and doubled in the 10th to get over 200.

Overall really happy with my spare shooting and I think I had pretty good series for my first time out. We'll see how singles and doubles go tomorrow but my plan is to not give the pocket away and grind it out like I did tonight. Prepared for the shot being tougher than the team shot.

For you righties: Our high bowler was a first timer that just missed out on a 600. He had a rough first game but then took out a pitch black and played about 16 to 10 and shot 232 and 218 in the last two games. Very impressive as I was told by multiple people that urethane wasn't going to work here for anyone.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/25/17 09:01 AM

Originally Posted By: wronghander
We'll see how singles and doubles go tomorrow but my plan is to not give the pocket away and grind it out like I did tonight. Prepared for the shot being tougher than the team shot.


This is what I have heard from the beginning. Don't give up the pocket. In years past, you had to create friction at 10 and then moved your feet left and then don't get the ball outside of the burn you just built. From what I have seen, you are almost better off with a small swing at your burn spot and more straight up.

I've heard that D\S are brutal. Can't wait anyway.
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/25/17 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: General Pounder
Originally Posted By: wronghander
We'll see how singles and doubles go tomorrow but my plan is to not give the pocket away and grind it out like I did tonight. Prepared for the shot being tougher than the team shot.


This is what I have heard from the beginning. Don't give up the pocket. In years past, you had to create friction at 10 and then moved your feet left and then don't get the ball outside of the burn you just built. From what I have seen, you are almost better off with a small swing at your burn spot and more straight up.

I've heard that D\S are brutal. Can't wait anyway.

They sure were and definitely planned on going in to miss to the inside if I was going to miss at all. Shot 195+140+200=535 in doubles and 176+234+158=568 in singles. Game 1 had just 3 strikes and stayed on the headpin to manage makeable spares but completely lost it in game 2. Started to miss the headpin and had an ugly 1,3,7,9,10 leave for my first open and then had 3 opens in a row with 2 splits with a whiffed 7 pin in there (my only single pin miss of the tournament). Went to my Radical Ridiculous @2000 in game 3 and had to really keep the speed down and play it left to right to get it up to the pocket. The good news is when it hit the pocket it did carry and didn't leave another 7 pin the rest of the day. Carried some light hits as well. Had been playing with my Grudge at 1k and it was just too much surface I guess because it just resulted in flat 7s when I did hit the pocket.

So I stuck with that ball the rest of the way. Despite having 3 lefties on the pair the left side didn't seem to break down at all. If anything there was either a little bit of carry down or the fronts got burnt up because I had to move my feet outside a few times. Had a chance to shoot a good singles set but a washout & open in the 10th of game 1 turned a 190s game into 176, and after having my best game of the tournament chopped two consecutive leaves to start game 3 and then left a 4-6 split in the 7th and saw my chances of shooting a 6 go out the window.

Still ended up with 1657 for all events which is pretty respectable I think. Disappointed that I had one really bad game in each set but my spare shooting was much better than it has been and kept me in it. Saw too many people (including my doubles partner) needlessly whiff single pins by hooking at them so I really believe you have to go straight at everything, even double wood. Hoping the USBC does away with the not revealing the patterns nonsense next year and I can consult my driller (who also is left-handed) about getting a few balls and layouts that are going to help me for next year. I really think I can shoot some good scores if I can get better ball reaction.

Good luck to GP and anyone else that's going to be bowling here. Had a good time here and looking forward to coming back to South Point in two years.
Posted by: dalion

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/26/17 04:57 AM

Just finished up my Team event. Wasn't pretty. But at least I can say I shot 500.

Heard from a pro u need to burn a line around the ten board or else you wont have any shot at all. Even if the 1st game is bad, this is the strategy I was told to use. We did just that. At first I wasn't putting anything on the ball at all, throwin between 2nd an 3rd. as the games wore on I could start putting more an more wrist action in my throw and by the 3rd game, really midway 2nd, it had opened up. 1st game horrible tho, 132 w/ an open in the 10th. 2nd game finished near my "sport" avg adjustment w/a 174 and ended things w/ a 214. 3rd game wasn't even clean, I got hosed in the 6th by a pocket split that I didn't deserve.

There were some good bowlers on lanes 1 an 2, I think they may have finished top 5? 1 of em had an eagle.

we'll see how dbls/singles goes tomorrow. im not expecting much just trying to have fun w/ it. My spare shooting was good tonight, just throw em hard an straight. most of my opens were due to me just missing my target. just gotta have more concentration.
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/26/17 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By: wronghander
I was told by multiple people that urethane wasn't going to work here for anyone.


I was told by a senior pro that the better strategy was to go urethane. Give up some strikes to maintain control to avoid bad leaves. Missing spares appears to be the back breaker at Nationals.
Posted by: dalion

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/26/17 10:30 PM

Well bowled much better in dbls/sings. Used the same strategy, throwin down the 12 board area, avoiding the outside, and the inside. The safe a sane approach? at least I stayed out of trouble w/ the splits. Today I didn't push the ball either so didn't leave any terrible splits. had 2 clean games in doubles an 1 in singles. wanted to leave makeable spares. couple times did miss the pocket an leave the 1,2,10 or some combo there of. Had 2 baby splits, made only 1. I did leave the 6,7,9,10 split, in the 10th frame of all places, but somehow managed to pick that up??!? Don't think ive ever picked that up in my life! Ultimately pleased w/ my performance:
Shot 611 dbls: 202, 198, 211
singles: disappointed I couldn't finish it off w/a 600, but content w/ a 588: 183, 223, 182
team was actually a 528: 135 ugh, 174, 217

Avg'd 201 today, 191 overall.
44 strikes, 38 spares, 12 opens

Doubles partner had a couple 190s and a bad 156 game, man so close!! finished 1157, which as of now is 30th place?
our team finished w/ 2586, so we're in the top 100 at least, for now.

all Standard division

Overall finished 1727, so better than Pete Weber? imagine that. just barely =)

Outside of the 10 board, an it wasn't coming back, inside of 15? and it was goin left, hard left. Threw straight @spares cuz the hook shot too unpredictable. Yeah the shot is tough for sure, an not all that consistent. plan on making continuous adjustments.

other notes: Nevada law states EVERYONE must be buckled up in the car, so keep that in mind if u'r driving or uber'ing.
Southpoint: Really south of the strip, was not impressed w/ the buffet. Course once u've had the lobster/prime rib buffet @Valley View Casino in SoCal, everything else kinda pales in comparision. Tried the prime rib restaurant, that was actually pretty good. heard a lot of the places are over priced. If u r staying at the hotel, apparently bowlers get a special rate, $57 w/ usbc card? also u get a coupon book, which has a 1/2 price buffet coupon, add a players club card an get an additional discount, which for me, made the buffet $5 for lunch. Prolly best to use the 1/2 off coupon for the seafood buffet @dinner.

Can't seem to find any link to "low to cash" numbers? Does anyone know where this info is now, or has that been done away w/ just like the pre-publishing the oil pattern an live streams?
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/26/17 11:48 PM

Quote:
low to cash numbers


Not sure, Rick used to post those numbers in the past. I have not seen anything this year, I wonder if they are not doing this year?
Posted by: wronghander

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/27/17 02:22 AM

I talked to a USBC official today and the low to cash numbers will be posted starting next week.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 05/28/17 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: wronghander
I talked to a USBC official today and the low to cash numbers will be posted starting next week.


USBC typically updates low-to-cash online on the 1st & 15th of the month during the tournament, so I'd say look for it on Thursday.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 06/01/17 05:14 PM

Low-to-cash: http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/...OCLowtoCash.pdf

Like I said, this should be updated on the 1st & 15th of the month (and, likely, after the end of the tournament instead of July 15).
Posted by: dalion

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 06/17/17 06:48 PM

Walter Ray shoots a lil over 1800, I see a couple 170s in there.


Individual results for Walter R Williams Jr
224 Doubles Regular 222,217,171 1237
507 All Events Regular 585,610,664 1859
504 Singles Regular 223,202,239 664
588 Team Regular 174,228,183 2780
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 06/18/17 07:17 AM

Originally Posted By: dalion
Walter Ray shoots a lil over 1800, I see a couple 170s in there.


Individual results for Walter R Williams Jr
224 Doubles Regular 222,217,171 1237
507 All Events Regular 585,610,664 1859
504 Singles Regular 223,202,239 664
588 Team Regular 174,228,183 2780
I like WRWjr. He does go on to win the
2017 USBC Senior Masters
last week with over a 240 average.

https://www.facebook.com/Walter-Ray-Williams-Jr-151127833292/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf

Watch Step Ladder Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjgrsWlXz-c
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 06/18/17 02:21 PM

Latest low-to-cash (linked previously) said an estimated prize fund would be posted on July 1, if people have been looking for that.
Posted by: dalion

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 07/01/17 02:35 PM

And they've updated the Low-to-cash now as of 7/1, but still cant find any estimated prize fund

and, I can't speak for the other divisions, but there has been NO change in the low-to-cash numbers for the standard division since it was 1st posted in June 1st. normally u would expect the numbers to rise, even a lil bit. either their prediction was spot on or they really have no idea =)
Posted by: SteveH

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 07/01/17 11:04 PM

Scroll down and you'll see the links for all divisions and estimated prize funds.

https://bowl.com/Open_Championships/Open_Championships_Home/Information/
Posted by: dalion

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 07/07/17 05:13 PM

Yes, I see it now. I also see the estimated low to cash numbers have actually dropped. I don't think I've ever seen that happen
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 07/07/17 11:34 PM

Originally Posted By: dalion
Yes, I see it now. I also see the estimated low to cash numbers have actually dropped. I don't think I've ever seen that happen


I'm actually not surprised, I found Singles/Doubles to be much harder than Team. Many folks may have had trouble on Day 2 as well.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 07/08/17 01:38 PM

If you haven't seen, Belmo made his OC debut this week, and did it in an unusual way that was actually pretty cool: He wasn't sure how it worked, so he just put his name on the sub board and connected with a group from Naples, FL (who were looking for a sub on the board as he was filling out his sub slip). Belmo ended up 16th in all-events.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 07/08/17 04:33 PM

Adding Riggs' write-up about Belmo's appearance, which includes an interview with Richard Belcher, who was captain of the group Belmo landed with.

https://www.11thframe.com/oc/article/953...-subbing-with-a
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 07/18/17 01:38 PM

I didn't see what time, but I thought I saw that the lane conditions for the Open would be revealed today, and I thought I also saw an interview with Chris Barnes was involved.
Posted by: Richie V.

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 07/18/17 05:03 PM

And here they are...

Team: http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/...mOilPattern.pdf

38', 29.45 mL total oil, 1.79:1 L, 1.79:1 R (middle track ratios slightly different L-R)

Minors: http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/...SOilPattern.pdf

41', 29.71 mL total oil, 1.93:1 L, 2:21:1 R

Both patterns were asymmetrical, but it was less pronounced on the team pattern. Jeff Richgels speculated that they were using a new oil (he mentioned Kegel Current, which was being tested at this year's Hoosier Classic collegiate tournament), but they were actually using Fire, which breaks down quicker than the Ice oil recently used in the tournament.

Thoughts?
Posted by: goobee

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 08/20/17 02:27 AM

If anyone is interested, the payout results are now final. I didn't fare too well overall but I'm not too disappointed. I won 11 of 12 brackets on Day 1. thumbsup
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 08/21/17 10:46 AM

I couldn't even manage to hit 500 for any set, but got a check for 145$. $120 was for team event, so, obviously I was riding on the back of my teammates (THANKS, folks!)
There was $25 for something I don't know what it was.
The initials before the amount were OCPtfStSg...sooooooo...Open Championship, then I am lost....it said 0 for score and 0 for place. Any guesses? I got some bracket money on site (VERY surprised at that)but minus for the bet(s).
Posted by: champ

Re: 2017 USBC Open Championships - 08/21/17 03:11 PM

I'm going to get a couple hundred bucks back. Cashed in team, singles, and all-events. This will be the best my team has done in four consecutive tries at it. Looking forward to getting the checks.