2-handers in the Shark Championship

Posted by: aoiten

2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/25/10 11:48 PM

I was surprised to read that there were almost THREE two-handers in the Shark Championship. One being American Brian Valenta. Looking forward to that bit of TV. (For some reason I'm thinking that Osku will win, but I'm not willing to put money on it. heh)

Qualifiers:
1, Dan MacLelland, Canada, 8-1, 5,087.
2, Osku Palermaa, Finland, 6-3, 4,946.
3, Tom Smallwood, Saginaw, Mich., 6-3, 4,921.
4, Jason Belmonte, Australia, 4-5, 4,909.
5, Mike Fagan, Patchogue, N.Y., 7-2, 4,888.

Other Cashers:
6, Walter Ray Williams Jr., Ocala, Fla., 5-4, 4,884, $2,500.
7, Brian Valenta, Lockport, Ill., 3-6, 4,830, $2,300.
Posted by: ryanfeia

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/25/10 11:52 PM

Gotta love Belmonte!
Posted by: aoiten

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/26/10 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By: ryanfeia
Gotta love Belmonte!


Without a doubt, mate. heh

I know who won now, but I didn't see the video. Waiting to see it on the Web.
Posted by: slaterracing

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/26/10 04:37 PM

Wow that was a tough day for everyone out there. Not sure i have ever seen a championship match with that low of scores.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/26/10 04:39 PM

Found the matches on YouTube. Here's the first one.

Posted by: ebon betta

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/26/10 05:46 PM

could it be lofting is easier two handed ?
Just a thought.
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/26/10 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ebon betta
could it be lofting is easier two handed ?
Just a thought.
.

Could be. Didn't seen to help them a ton...
Posted by: aoiten

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/26/10 10:51 PM

Tom Smallwood is pretty interesting. He had his two fingers taped and a Turbo Rev (clear grip thing) on his index finger. Of course, the partial thumb technique is--to borrow a word from Spock--fascinating. He has been referred to as a 1.5-handed bowler, but he seems more like a thumbless bowler.
Posted by: slaterracing

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/27/10 10:12 AM

OK i have a question. I know the reason why everyone was moving all the way left and just coming across center and trying to bring the ball back and it seemed to either not come back or come back way to hard and go thru the nose. Here is my question why didnt they move right and throw up the 2nd or 3rd arrow and let the ball come in there. Looking at the pattern the oil is lighter around that area as long as they did not get it to far to the right. Seemed to me that they cld have done that with a more aggressive ball and if it broke to much start backing it down. Seemed the problem was that the line was broken down so bad from the high rev bowlers I wld think moving to a 100% diff line wld have helped. Any thoughts on this. I have nevered bowling on any of the pro shots so i have no clue if this wld have worked but wld like som insite. Thanks
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/27/10 10:31 AM

These bowlers have such high rev rates that it would have took a very weak ball, maybe even plastic to move back out. You have to remember they get practice time before the show, and even during the show and in the pre-show practice they usually try to burn a spot up down the lane to create a hook area and since there is lighter oil in that area already it doesn't take much. Usually they throw straighter when doing that so they already did damage to the heads. Then with all of that power they tore up the the rest of the pattern with the help of the tv lights.

They could only go with so weak of a ball moving in deep because it still needed to be able to make it back to the pocket.
Posted by: looseleftie

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/28/10 08:58 AM

Interesting to see whether two handed bowling will get that extra momentum, and be taken a little bit more serious by other bowlers (league and PBA)..

As Belmo said some time ago, look how the two handers go against traditional bowlers and their success rate... If there are up to 4 two handers on PBA, imagine (in theory) the rate of success if there were say 10 for the sake of this post... HMMM, makes u think... I have seen about 6 two handers now over last two years at my centre...Numbers are slowly increasing, I don't know about your centres?
Posted by: aoiten

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/28/10 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: looseleftie
Interesting to see whether two handed bowling will get that extra momentum, and be taken a little bit more serious by other bowlers (league and PBA)..

As Belmo said some time ago, look how the two handers go against traditional bowlers and their success rate... If there are up to 4 two handers on PBA, imagine (in theory) the rate of success if there were say 10 for the sake of this post... HMMM, makes u think... I have seen about 6 two handers now over last two years at my centre...Numbers are slowly increasing, I don't know about your centres?


The success rate is very high for two-handers in the PBA, isn't it? I've seen some local people "play" with two-handing, but only maybe one or two who do it regularly. There were a pair of "Asian" girls using thumbless techniques; they were pretty good. At the alley were I see more Asian people, I see thumbless techniques used more. (Maybe that's why I'm drawn to it, being half Asian? heh)

I'm starting to feel the way Belmo does. He doesn't want to be thought of as just "The Two-handed Bowler." He just wants to be recognised as a bowler, preferably as a GOOD bowler.

I thought something similar when a kid said to not two-hand next time. (I'm just bowling...what're talking about?) I didn't know the context of his comment, but later I was told that he thought I was cheating. Huh?! It seems that people who don't understand the technique have the most complaints about it. The only thing the second hand does is support the ball until just before the release. Yeah...that's cheating. O.o If anything, for the less skilled two-handers (me), always using two hands is the /opposite/ of cheating. heh
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/28/10 01:24 PM

My chief concern with the two-handed approach, is long term effects on the body, just like regular thumbless bowling and the plant and pull crankers. All of these styles tend to take more work to be able to be consistent. A lot of moving parts that need to be timed just right.

I do believe Belmo to be a good bowler, he's won many international tournaments, but when you have a unique style like his, you become known as "The Two-Handed Bowler."

I don't like the way the USBC and to a lesser extent the PBA want to push the style though. It's a good idea for the USBC to study it and the bio-mechanics that goes along with it but don't try to make it out to be the best thing since sliced bread.

Also there can be such a thing as too much power, look at all the trouble these bowlers started to have on the show.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/28/10 04:54 PM

Two-handing can be done in a relaxed mode due to the support of the second hand. If your back is in good condition, it shouldn't pose a problem. The stresses on the hand, wrist, and shoulder seem lower compared to one-handing. I've been having trouble with my left hip though. (That's part of a pre-existing condition.)

I didn't notice the two-handers having any problems that anyone else didn't experience. They did well, qualifying for two events each. I'm curious about the number of people who qualified on multiple patterns.

For some reason I don't think of two-handing as a power technique. Maybe because I lack power for now? I just see it as a way to deliver the ball.

I understand the feeling of two-handing being promoted or pushed to an unreasonable or annoying degree. As a person who enjoys alternative techniques, it's common to have one-handed hook bowling pushed and promoted at me. heh And I have been overzealous at times promoting my preferred flavour of the month. What I find time and again, the more I think I've learned, the less I really know.

My wife, for example, has some non-textbook elements to her game. I was thinking yesterday that we should work on those things, especially her swing timing. Then I came across a video of Diandra Asbaty and found that she does things in a similar way. Who am I to argue with something that works?

http://www.pba.com/Bowlers/Bowler/37075
Posted by: B-Hammer

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/28/10 05:25 PM

There is a group of 5 kids that are my local center's "bowlers of the future", I've seen them all try two handed and they can score pretty good with it, but right now they all favor a Fagan-esque sky high backswing. They actually have a pretty amazing ability to mimic PBA player styles.

Only know of one league bowler that bowls two handed and he's terrible, actually think he scares off other people from trying the two handed technique because they don't want to be associated with him. Not only does he not score well but he looks silly trying to do it.

It all has to start somewhere though, I remember when snow boards first came out and the few people that tried it looked stupid, now it's probably as popular if not more so then skiing.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: 2-handers in the Shark Championship - 12/28/10 05:44 PM

I know of one two handed bowler in my area, and that's even if he is still doing it. He was 15 when I first met him in a merchandise league, and he is probably around 20 now. His father is in the local hall of fame. He was good then, averaging around 200 on the short pattern we had. He started bowling around 3 years old. He always wanted to use the exact bowling balls his father used, which were 16 lbs, so he had to use two hands and just kept at. He kept at bowling while participating in other sports as well. I know I heard he moved up to adult leagues a few seasons ago. At one point he was talking about maybe converting to a one handed approach but I doubt he did.