Switching Styles During Tournament

Posted by: aoiten

Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 02:09 PM

Today I was told that, during a league tournament, one must continue to use the either a singled-handed style or a two-handed style. No switching is allowed.

This is my perspective: Wha?!

Is that a USBC ruling or maybe just a house rule? Is it fair? Does it make any sense at all?

Posted by: Richie V.

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 02:52 PM

It could be a league rule, but the USBC rule is you can't switch hands in the middle of a tournament and does not address one-handed or two-handed style (though they may have done so at the convention a week or so ago). FYI, Osku Palermaa is a well-known two-hander, but switches to one-handed when shooting spares.
Posted by: B-Hammer

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 03:44 PM

Who told you that, another bowler, or a tournament official? USBC loves two handed bowlers just look at all the marketing they are putting towards the style.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 03:47 PM

Is this a youth league or adult league? If it's adult league then what Richie says is true, it would have to be a league/tournament rule. USBC has ruled on this several years ago. As long as the bowler is using the same dominant hand for the swing and release it is legal to go from one handed to two handed and back. In the online rule book at bowl.com, it can be found in rule 118b-Commonly Asked Questions. It is 118b/3.

Rule 118b also states: A bowler using a two-handed delivery will establish an average with two hands. When the bowler changes to a one-handed delivery, they must establish a new average using that hand.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 05:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Richie V.
FYI, Osku Palermaa is a well-known two-hander, but switches to one-handed when shooting spares.


Right. So could it be that singled-handed spares are allowed, but switching to single-handed strikes are not allowed? Why should there be ANY rule? As Belmonte describes his style, it's a two-handed approach, but a one-handed delivery.

There is another guy that uses a "mini" two-handed approach. They guy who was laid off from GM. Maybe his style would never have developed if rules were made too strict and nonsensical.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By: B-Hammer
Who told you that, another bowler, or a tournament official? USBC loves two handed bowlers just look at all the marketing they are putting towards the style.


I was told that it was a youth coach who said it.

(If a two-handed bowler is scoring with a plastic or urethane ball, but a hook bowler is winning with a super, glowing, radioactive particle ball, who would be considered more skilled and true to the game?)
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio
Is this a youth league or adult league? If it's adult league then what Richie says is true, it would have to be a league/tournament rule. USBC has ruled on this several years ago. As long as the bowler is using the same dominant hand for the swing and release it is legal to go from one handed to two handed and back. In the online rule book at bowl.com, it can be found in rule 118b-Commonly Asked Questions. It is 118b/3.

Rule 118b also states: A bowler using a two-handed delivery will establish an average with two hands. When the bowler changes to a one-handed delivery, they must establish a new average using that hand.


What if the person switches for spares?

I think the spirit of the rule for people to not sandbag, I guess.
Posted by: B-Hammer

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 05:56 PM

When your in a scratch tourney, league, or association you can use whatever hand or hands you want as there is no handicap adjustment involved.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 07:45 PM

Originally Posted By: aoiten
Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio
Is this a youth league or adult league? If it's adult league then what Richie says is true, it would have to be a league/tournament rule. USBC has ruled on this several years ago. As long as the bowler is using the same dominant hand for the swing and release it is legal to go from one handed to two handed and back. In the online rule book at bowl.com, it can be found in rule 118b-Commonly Asked Questions. It is 118b/3.

Rule 118b also states: A bowler using a two-handed delivery will establish an average with two hands. When the bowler changes to a one-handed delivery, they must establish a new average using that hand.


What if the person switches for spares?

I think the spirit of the rule for people to not sandbag, I guess.


You can switch to one handed for spares and vice versa as long as the ball is in the same dominant hand. USBC release a statement about that on the bowl.com website either last year or the year before. That is for adults, I believe in youth leagues/tournaments they have to use one or the other.

Originally Posted By: B-Hammer
When your in a scratch tourney, league, or association you can use whatever hand or hands you want as there is no handicap adjustment involved.


I believe that is false, as handicap isn't the reason for the rule. Averages are still maintained and all USBC sanctioned averages have to be maintained using either one hand or the other and no combination of both.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio

You can switch to one handed for spares and vice versa as long as the ball is in the same dominant hand. USBC release a statement about that on the bowl.com website either last year or the year before. That is for adults, I believe in youth leagues/tournaments they have to use one or the other.

Averages are still maintained and all USBC sanctioned averages have to be maintained using either one hand or the other and no combination of both.


If youths are not allowed to switch, it might discourage them from using different styles or cause them to have lower scores. Then they may never become pros that switch between styles. What good is that?

I guess the popularity of the two-handed style is still fairly new and the rules haven't quite been ironed out yet.

(I freaked momentarily when someone joked about the helicopter technique not being allowed in league or tournament. haha I had a stronger reaction to the two-handed issue. I just hate the thought of an organisation putting unreasonable limits of individuals.)
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 09:05 PM

If a youth switches from two handed to one handed, they have to start a new average. I think that part of the rule was there before the two two handed style of today. At the time it was originally written, it probably referred to the time when a much younger junior bowler no longer needed to throw the ball two handed and was able to step up to a more conventional release when they were a little older.

As for youths becoming pros that switch styles, very few pros switch styles. Sure they become versatile but using the same style changing hand positions, speed and so on. The only one I've seen that makes the drastic change, and it's mainly for certain spares, is Osku Palermaa. He does it to go hard and straight, much harder to do with the two handed style even with a plastic ball.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/15/10 10:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio
If a youth switches from two handed to one handed, they have to start a new average. I think that part of the rule was there before the two two handed style of today. At the time it was originally written, it probably referred to the time when a much younger junior bowler no longer needed to throw the ball two handed and was able to step up to a more conventional release when they were a little older.

As for youths becoming pros that switch styles, very few pros switch styles. Sure they become versatile but using the same style changing hand positions, speed and so on. The only one I've seen that makes the drastic change, and it's mainly for certain spares, is Osku Palermaa. He does it to go hard and straight, much harder to do with the two handed style even with a plastic ball.


Ah, that theory makes sense. If the rule is as you say, it should be clarified. At the same time, for some people, switching from 2 hands to 1 hand might not be any more of a change than the usual changes that you mentioned. If those changes are accepted, why not accept occasional support from the non-dominant hand?

Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/16/10 02:06 AM

Anyone can switch from two handed to one handed providing they stick with the main hand. No warning needs to be given, no vote taken. USBC allows them to switch back and forth at will. Thank you Jason Belmonte!!!!
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/16/10 09:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Atochabsh
Anyone can switch from two handed to one handed providing they stick with the main hand. No warning needs to be given, no vote taken. USBC allows them to switch back and forth at will. Thank you Jason Belmonte!!!!


Well, then it's back to the idea that it doesn't matter unless you are using a handicap, since a separate average needs to be established for each style. Also that adults are free to choose, but youths are not. I don't know...
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/27/10 09:20 PM

Yeah, thanks, Belmo. (I like his 2-handed style the most.)

Well, I switched styles in the middle of the 3rd game during league and no one said anything. Actually, I got some applause from my team mates. heh My spinner was failing miserably so I went 2-handed with an old, abandoned reactive ball; shot a few strikes with it. (I think I figured out part of the spinner problem--need to relax the wrist.)

I will continue to switch styles at will unless an "official" problem develops. Even then I might continue or quit altogether. Be warned! hahaha It's just my style, however undeveloped it is.
Posted by: TheDemolitionMan

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/28/10 02:23 AM

Personally I think this whole two-handed, one-handed thing is a load of *insert your favorite explative*. I hardly see any one-handed bowlers, which by definition, well a common sense definition, is someone who only uses one hand/arm to bowl. I can think of only two people that do this. A friend of mine that bowls on Fridays and Scroggins (and he's a maybe). Every other bowler uses their other hand and arm to some degree hence making them a two-handed bowler. The only difference is that the other arm stays on the ball longer. I guess they had to call it something and Kamayamaya style was taken (and for those of you that don't know what the Kamayamaya Wave is, look up Dragon Ball Z and watch Goku fire it).

Switching from one style to the other being a problem shouldn't even be brought up because the only differences are the approach and that the thumb comes out. Now if they switch sides, and say start throwing lefty when they were throwing righty, I do have some issues with that, but other wise no.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/28/10 10:14 AM

The "2-handed" approach is very much like the Kamehameha.

BTW, my league team is named after the Spirit Bomb.
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Switching Styles During Tournament - 05/28/10 11:04 AM

Nice photos. I wonder if Jason and Osku know they are channeling Kamehameha.

Here is a question. Can a "one-handed" bowler switch from right-handed to left-handed during a scratch tournament? If not, what is the penalty?

The USBC rulebook suggests that league bowlers cannot switch hands while establishing an average. And if they do, the entire game is forfeited. Does this apply to tournaments as well? What if it is a scratch tournament?

I witnessed this in match play in a USBC sanctioned scratch tournament. After gaining a sufficient lead, the right-handed bowler said, "Enough balls have been rolled on the right side", and started rolling a plastic ball left-handed along the left side track area. I was the next bowler, and I am left-handed. I did not appreciate what he did, but was not sure if it was illegal, so I did not say anything.