Womans series

Posted by: General Pounder

Womans series - 04/13/09 12:45 PM

Did anyone watch the womens series yesterday? There was some great bowling. CDB broke the TV record for most strikes in a row with 20. She caught a couple of breaks to make it to the final. The person that really impressed me was Jodi Woessner. She was throwing a great ball. She looked so smooth in her approach and at the line.

I DVR'ed the program and watched it after everyone went to bed. CDB threw a gutter and Stone made a comment that I had to cover my mouth from laughing. He said: Throwing untimely gutterballs runs in the family. What made it even funnier is that right after she threw it, I thought: Like husband, like wife.
Posted by: RLD

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 01:25 PM

Like a true veteran, CD-B came "stormin" back to take the title after having to wait and see if her 17 would get her out of the elimination round. Congrats on the record 20! thumbsup
Posted by: Dr. Seuss

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 01:30 PM

I did catch a bit of it, and the comment about the gutter ball was funny. The more interesting bowling that was on over the weekend was the womens college championships. The Baker format does really make it a team sport with your team relying on you to continue throwing marks.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 01:33 PM

I watched it on TV but I kind of had a "spoiler" moment when I was watching the first King of Bowling tourny in Lake Wales. I was walking around the complex during one of the commercial breaks and I saw the "Big Check" with CDB's name on it so I knew she won although I had not been there to see it. It was some great bowling on TV though, congrats to her!

I also wanted to say I was quite impressed with Stephanie Nation. She was a member of UCF's Striking Knights a few years back (I will be trying out this year) so it was great to see the girl from my hometown school compete well.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 01:51 PM

I only watched the first hour so far, and if I had to pick a winner, I'd (wrongly) pick Nation. Her line was great, and her strikes were good strikes.

GP, you would be impressed by someone throwing Storm. It takes a real woman to use Brunswick. :P
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
It takes a real woman to use Brunswick. :P


Yes, it does grin
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 02:40 PM

/me points at CDB and Nation.
Posted by: dmoney298

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 03:11 PM

Using the different scoring system, I thought was very interesting. It was really great watching the ladies go at it. Congrats to CDB.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 03:17 PM

I was thinking it would be kind of cool to run a summer league with that scoring system. I mean they run no-tap leagues so I think it could be relavent.
Posted by: dmoney298

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 06:46 PM

That would be cool. I would join a league with that scoring system without hesitation.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 06:57 PM

I don't know about how the machines are controlled, but I would bet that most can't be easily programmed not to reset until all the pins are down. Even then, you'd need to keep score manually (which is fine by me - it's the first part that I think would require a very modern system).
Posted by: evilash71

Re: Womans series - 04/13/09 11:05 PM

I loved it. I thought it was very interesting to watch. I also agree with the REAL WOMEN USE BRUNSWICK! Go Nation!
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 08:05 AM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I don't know about how the machines are controlled, but I would bet that most can't be easily programmed not to reset until all the pins are down.


From what I know about the machines, which is very limited, it would be rather difficult and not cheap in any way, if at all possible.

I felt the scoring system was interesting, but I wasn't completely sold on it, mostly because except for the factor of the difficulty of the spare left, it eliminated 1st ball pin count from the scoring system. In other words, a 6/ is the same score as a 9/. As I was watching, I had this idea of an alternate scoring system, although it is not perfect either. Your score for a frame is the total number of pins you left standing after each shot in the frame, but you still only get 2 shots a frame. For example, a strike is a 0 for a frame, a 9/ would be a 1 because you left one pin standing on the 1st ball, and a 9- would be a 2 because you left one pin standing on both the 1st and 2nd ball. If you left a 6-10, and then chopped the 6 off of the 10, that would be a 3, two left standing after the 1st ball, one left after the 2nd ball. Do 10 frames just like they did, lowest score wins, perfect game is a 0. Only problem I see is that an 8/ would be the same score as a 9-.

Ok, I have another idea pretty much the same as above, but just like Petraglia's, you bowl until all the pins are knocked down, but your score for a frame is still the total of the pins you left on the deck after each shot of the frame. A strike is a 0. If you leave a 10 pin and take 1 shot to pick it up, that is a 1 because you left 1 pin after the 1st ball and none after the 2nd. If you miss it the first time, but pick it up the second time, it is a 2 because you left 1 pin on the deck twice. If you leave a 6-10 and pick it up the first try, that's a 2. If you first pick up the 6 on the first try and then the 10, that's a 3. This works out to be more fair in my opinion, it penalizes you for not making a spare on the first shot and gives credit for a better 1st ball.

Mark
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 09:20 AM

Another thing I thought of last night is that this type of scoring system would work much better in a mixed golf/bowling league. based on "par" now being alternate strikes and spares, par in the Petraglia system would be 15. Since 9 holes takes longer than 1 game of bowling, perhaps go 9 holes then 2 games. Say you shoot 40 for golf (par 36), and 28 for 2 games of bowling (par 30). You could either have a net +2, or you could weight the golf twice as heavily and have a net +3.

I think the main problem with the new systems would be that they are irrelevant for very low level bowlers who may take 7 balls to clear the lane. Then, do you implement some rule like "no more than 4 balls"? If so, Mark's system might work better and be more universal. Then again, with Mark's system, a gutter basically puts you out of the match, which (I feel) is too harsh a penalty, especially when playing patterns that force the player outside.
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 11:56 AM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Then again, with Mark's system, a gutter basically puts you out of the match, which (I feel) is too harsh a penalty, especially when playing patterns that force the player outside.


True, I didn't really think of that one, it could have too much of an impact. I also agree that these systems would be bad for the lower level bowlers.

I know that Petraglia was trying to come up with a system that would make it easier for someone to understand the scoring of the game, and the easiest way to do this is to eliminate the bonuses for strikes and spares. Unfortunately, it then becomes tougher to devise a fair system. I had another idea, but I scratched it because it still has a bonus system of sorts, but I think it's more simple. Here it is. 2 shots per frame. A strike is a 0. A spare is 10 + the number of pins you left standing after the 1st shot in the frame. An open is 20 + the number of pins you left standing after the 2nd shot of the frame. 10 frames, lowest score wins. Perfect game is 0, worst possible score is 300, which I find to be funny.

Mark
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 12:19 PM

Seems like it would score very similar to the standard system, with the added bonus (IMO) that spares in certain frames don't count more or less than others. For instance, 9/ in the first frame followed by 9 strikes would be the same as 9/ anywhere else, with the rest strikes - an 11. With the current system, it could be 279, or 280, or 289, or 290, depending on when it comes. In fact, there would be no difference between throwing 5 strikes then 5 9-, versus throwing alternating strikes and opens, whereas there would be a big difference with the standard scoring method. Some might not like this - I actually do.
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 01:25 PM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Seems like it would score very similar to the standard system, with the added bonus (IMO) that spares in certain frames don't count more or less than others.


That's what I was thinking too, that's where a lot of new people can get confused with the current scoring system. I happen to think it's not that bad of an idea either to have all frames count the same. Two weeks ago in league, I had 3 opens to start out my last game and then took it off the sheet for a 235 (don't ask). Last game last week, I had a clean game with a four bagger and a double and got a 231, it's tough for someone who doesn't understand the scoring to grasp that.

If you want to make it more like the current system, but keep the same idea, make a strike 30 pins, a spare 10 + the number of pins knocked down on the first ball, and an open the number of pins knocked down in the frame. Still bowl 10 frames. Then, your perfect game is still 300 and your lowest score is still 0. I crunched the numbers from my first 10 shots from the games that I listed above using this system, and my 235 would still be a 235, of course, but my 231 would have been a 252. Interesting.

Mark
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 01:37 PM

I think the only problem with that idea is that the strikes are worth so much more than everything else. For example if you were to shoot a dutch 200 in standard game your score would go as follows:

X / X / X / X / X /
30 50 80 100 130 150 180 200 230 250

So you would shoot 50 pins higher because of the big strike bonus. Not bad but I still don't think its perfect.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 02:39 PM

sk8, is that a problem? Why should there be a difference between shooting 5 strikes followed by 5 spares, vs. throwing alternating strikes and spares, still 5 of each? Why should there be a difference between an 11 strike game with a 9/ in the first frame (290 with the current system) vs. an 11 strike game with a 9/ in the 5th (279)?
Posted by: Mattdean76

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 03:00 PM

I like the current system as is, there could be potential for a newer easier to understand system, the problem is making it fair. There are some novel ideas out there, but most don't seem to be fair in some form or another.
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Womans series - 04/14/09 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: sk8shorty01
I think the only problem with that idea is that the strikes are worth so much more than everything else. For example if you were to shoot a dutch 200 in standard game your score would go as follows:

X / X / X / X / X /
30 50 80 100 130 150 180 200 230 250

So you would shoot 50 pins higher because of the big strike bonus. Not bad but I still don't think its perfect.


Well, technically, it would be a 245 assuming that the spares were all 9/'s. 19 for each spare frame, 9 from the 1st ball + the 10 pins.

30 49 79 98 128 147 177 196 226 245

Now, if I shoot a dutch 200 going X9/ the whole game, I get a 200, as we all know. If someone else gets the front 5 and then goes 9/ for the next 5 frames with a 9 on the fill ball, they get a 234. That bowler could miss 3 of the 5 single pin spares and still win because he strung his strikes, even though we both had the same # of strikes and my spare shooting was much better than his. The current system does put more emphasis on stringing strikes than it does on making spares. If we use my idea, that person also has a 245 and we tie.

30 60 90 120 150 169 188 207 226 245

I believe that this idea would be fair.

Mark
Posted by: okorimbo

Re: Womans series - 04/15/09 03:15 AM

Does anyone have a tape or DVD of the event that he/she is willing to share? I'll be happy to pay any reasonable fee.
Posted by: eastwest

Re: Womans series - 04/15/09 11:04 AM

I can't stand "CDB"'s "yeeeaAAHHHHHHH!" cackle-y-ish thing she lets out after strikes. Nothing personally against her, but I can't listen to her. Woessner was the best out of the group, and really impressed me when I saw her whoop CDB in Baltimore.
Posted by: Rickywin

Re: Womans series - 04/15/09 11:36 AM

From taking a look back at the Women's series event on Xtra Frame, the pins were very lively! Pins were flying everywhere, one or two messengers scouting for the ten when it was already down? The gutters were also pretty lively.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Womans series - 04/15/09 12:03 PM

Kegel has one of the best carry percentages in all of bowling. If you look in the stands during the King of Bowling event you should be able to see at least a few signs that point it out. I know there was one that said "Thank god for Kegel Carry!". They have all steel kick backs and the pits are very prone to sending pins back onto the deck. I have seen quite a few 7-10 split conversions there.
Posted by: 4StepShaun

Re: Womans series - 04/16/09 09:36 PM

Originally Posted By: eastwest
I can't stand "CDB"'s "yeeeaAAHHHHHHH!" cackle-y-ish thing she lets out after strikes. Nothing personally against her, but I can't listen to her. Woessner was the best out of the group, and really impressed me when I saw her whoop CDB in Baltimore.
It was as bad as nails on a chalkboard. It drove me crazy as well! It might be why she did so well in the Womens Series it drove her competitors batty as well. It's so crude!
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: Womans series - 04/16/09 09:47 PM

Quote:
Kegel has one of the best carry percentages in all of bowling. If you look in the stands during the King of Bowling event you should be able to see at least a few signs that point it out. I know there was one that said "Thank god for Kegel Carry!". They have all steel kick backs and the pits are very prone to sending pins back onto the deck. I have seen quite a few 7-10 split conversions there.


The carry was quite shocking! I know that wouldn't happen in any of our centers.

Is this how they balance out the PBA and Sport shots? Make the physical lane specs the most carry prone they are allowed?

Erin
Posted by: Rickywin

Re: Womans series - 04/17/09 03:09 AM

Some of the messengers (Feldman's in particular) made Tommy Jone's messengers shameful. Trip 2/8's were pretty common.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Womans series - 04/17/09 11:59 AM

I am not sure if they do it for any particular reason, I do know that they do countless testing there for ball reps, engineers, and the likes. Those lanes are actually sitting on pistons and they can be adjusted at every two feet. They run tournies there where they will create a pattern that is basically impossible to strike, something like the lanes going down hill and slanting to the right as it goes down lane so that way the ball has a hard time hooking. Its pretty fun playing on that stuff.
Posted by: bowlerchic1

Re: Womans series - 04/18/09 07:43 PM

This can be viewed on youtube now. just type in 2009 usbc womens series showdown and it will appear in different segments