Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer?

Posted by: 30 Clean

Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 01:50 PM

I noticed during the National Stadium Championship that Patrick Allen had both a Storm patch (right breast side) and Hammer patch (left breast side) on his shirt. How could that be? I didn't think those companies would allow a player to be sponsored by a competitor. Very strange.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 01:56 PM

If he is free lance, which means he isn't signed to an exclusive deal with anyone, there isn't much they can do about it. I'm not sure he has a deal with anyone right now. It was kind of weird to see since they aren't even under the same main company. He's using a Hammer Razr on the Cheetah and a Storm T-Road Solid on the Shark. Bill O'Neil was using two companies as well, Ebonite and Hammer, but Ebonite owns Hammer. I'know he was using Ebonite on Cheetah, but not sure which ball, and Hammer on Shark, again not sure which ball.
Posted by: dante21

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 02:46 PM

I thought P.A. was using a Hammer Vibe, but then again I could be wrong and prolly am.
Posted by: 30 Clean

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 03:06 PM

According to the announcer, P.A. was using a Hammer Blue Vibe on the right, Cheetah pattern and a Storm Rapid Fire on the left, Shark pattern.
Posted by: Brandon510

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 03:08 PM

PA a free agent and not signed to anyone. so he could use any ball company really.
Posted by: 30 Clean

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 03:16 PM

I guessed I just assumed - incorrectly - that if they're wearing a patch from a company, then they are sponsored by that company. Now I know better.
Posted by: Avery

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 03:24 PM

PA started with a Hammer Rayzr on Cheetah and a Storm T-Road Solid on Shark. He switched to the Vibe on Cheetah and Rapid Fire on Shark later on. I'm not sure what Bill O'Neill was using, but I'm pretty sure he was using a Hammer The Sauce on Shark. There is an interesting story about PA using Storm on Storm's website in Chris Schlemer's report on the Shark Championship.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 03:27 PM

Well, technically they are sponsored by that company, but in PA's case, that sponsorship is for that day (or week) only.
Posted by: Brandon510

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 03:34 PM

Bill O'Neil was using Hot Sauce, the New Sauce comming out in Feb from hammer on Shark. Unsure what he was throwing on the cheetah.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 03:37 PM

As the day went on PA did change balls, and it worked through the first three games. Not quite as well in the last game but he won four straight games for the title. That 8-10 by WRW, just wow is all I can say.
Posted by: leftykev

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 07:44 PM

No disrespect to WRW, but even pro's make week shots and pay the price. too many people, including the press have elevated Walter to Bowling GOD stautus.

Yes, he is a good bowling, and YES he is a great bowling, BUT BUT BUT, HE is human and not in his 20's, and paid the price for ALL that. Regardless of the era, he is not the greatest bowler of all time. Just a good/great bowling, who happended to win a lot over PBA tournaments over 30 years. 30 Years? Just because he won at least 1 PBA tournament over the last 16 years, does not make him a greatest of all time. His lose record was is right up there with his win records....So, sorry for ranting, but lets stop placing an average PBA bowling at BOWLING GOD status.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 08:05 PM

Not to stray too far off topic, but even WRW admits it is Earl Anthony, not him, that is the greatest of all time. Walter Ray is, by far, the best bowler of the "resin era", if you will, by sheer numbers alone. He may have had a longer career, but still he has been competitive on the regular tour for many years, something that can't be said for a lot of "former greats." The man wins a lot because he is in the top 4 or 5 a lot, and that speaks volumes about his ability to not only win "the marathon", but "the sprint" as well.

And to say he is average is not only blasphemous, but seriously disrespectful, for he is far from "average". I'm sure you could go right out there and beat him, right?
Posted by: NewEnglandBowler

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 08:06 PM

That 8-10 was an absolutely terrible break. unfortunately that was the only game that i saw, but WRW threw an excellent shot for the title. I have never seen a reaction like that from WRW, either. i don't think anyone in the house could believe that he had left the 8-10, and apparently PA was about 10 lanes away from the TV pair in disbelief.

I would put that shot right up there with Pedersen's stone 8 against Ernie Schlegel and Del Ballard Jr's gutterball against pete weber.
Posted by: leftykev

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 08:33 PM

I didn't say I could go out and beat him. I'm not a PBA bowling and I know my place as just a bowler, but just because the press says he is the greatest bowler of all time, is just HYPE, and disrespective of the true bowling WRW really is...He didn't get a bad break today, he threw a week shot and lost because of that week shot. And, that just shows he is human.

My point is that it's wrong to dis-bleave he left that shot.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 09:01 PM

The shot was somewhat weak, yes, but it had been carrying, so it was reasonable for him to expect to carry. I think part of the frustration was knowing he finally threw a decent shot on 23 to get him into a position to win and then left that 8-10, and that demoralized him. Even PA couldn't believe that bad luck. It was unlucky, really. It wasn't the worst shot he threw today, either, but it left the least desired result at the most inopportune time.

I don't know if anyone is in utter disbelief he left that 8-10, and anyone who understands the sport knows his style is susceptible to leaving flat leaves, but as I said, it was carrying up until that shot and, at worst, a flat 8 or flat 10 wouldn't be out of the question, but not an 8-10.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 09:28 PM

My whole reaction was due to leaving both pins, not one or the other but both on the same shot. It didn't matter if it was WRW, Chris Barnes, Rhino Page(would have been the 7-9) or Tommy Jones I would have had the same reaction with the game being that close.

No one at that point on this thread said anything about WRW being the best ever I was just reacting to the leave. I don't believe in saying someone is the greatest of all time in any thing. You can't compare people from different eras in any sport. There are too many differences between eras.
Posted by: Jay R.

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 10:19 PM

He deserved flat 10. Bad break on that 8 though, that was far from expected. As for balls that were used, the only ones I can't figure out what Wes and Chris each used for the Cheetah. I know what Chris used was urethane though because that's what they said during the first match. Bill was using the new Ebonite Magic on the Cheetah.
Posted by: BIGHMW

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: K.M. Ryan
That 8-10 was an absolutely terrible break. unfortunately that was the only game that i saw, but WRW threw an excellent shot for the title. I have never seen a reaction like that from WRW, either. i don't think anyone in the house could believe that he had left the 8-10, and apparently PA was about 10 lanes away from the TV pair in disbelief.

I would put that shot right up there with Pedersen's stone 8 against Ernie Schlegel and Del Ballard Jr's gutterball against pete weber.


I was thinking the exact same sediment as you were, Walter Ray went with the "ol' high hard one" on that shot, and got a horrible break at (yes) the most inopportuned time.

Comparing that with Randy Pedersen's stone 8 against Ernie Schlegel (1995 TPC) and Del Ballard's infamous gutterball against PDW (1991 Fair Lanes Open) is indeed correct, and I have seen all 3 as they happened. I wonder if our good friend the Wolfman himself will be uploading this bad break onto YouTube so we can all discuss more on it.

Now note that like myself, that WRW does not have a very high rev rate, and he'll be the first to admit it, but his accuarcy has been more than enough to allow him to still win on Tour year-after-year against even the Young Guns like Tommy Jones, Wes Malott, and Rhino Page have been tearing it up the most recent years. That 8-10 could have been a by-product of his equipment (MoRich) maybe losing its energy ("hooking out" as the ball hit the 1-3) or maybe he was using 15-pound gear, and he paid the price as the ball looked like it deflected too much.

I myself throw the ball like Walter Ray does, or even Ernie Schlegel does, the "ol' high hard one" (I even admitted it on my 20 Questions on my official website, see http://www.bighmw.com/20questions.html Question 8 for details), and I also throw more of a spinner as opposed to end-over-end roll like WRW, and I throw nothing but 16-pound equipment, believing in Bo Burton's old philosophy that 15-pound equipment deflects too much, and I believe that the lighter equipment he was using cost him the title, after doing his post-tournament research he will indeed think twice before drilling up 15-pound gear again.
Posted by: NewEnglandBowler

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/11/09 11:47 PM

maybe i was unclear in my original post. i wasn't really in disbelief, it was more of a huge surprise that he left BOTH the 8 and the 10 on that shot. from how i saw it, that shot should have only left the 10, it was a little high, and i didn't expect the 8. a ten pin and we would have most certainly been looking at a roll off, but something missed the 8.

i throw close to the same as WRW, not a huge follow-through and a bit more angle than end over end, so i understand how it is to leave solid 8 pins, or have a 6 lay in the channel and not kick the 10. but i haven't left an 8-10 in at least a couple years, and with a similar style to WRW, i was almost in shock that he left both pins, not to mention the tension of the situation (strike for a win, 9/ for a tie, <9 for a loss).

Maybe BigHMW is correct in saying that the ball deflected too much, i only use 16 so i usually don't worry about leaving 8 pins unless the ball comes in flat.
Posted by: untutored

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/12/09 01:57 AM

IMO Patrick Allen had some pretty cool equipment. I wonder whether he did anything fancy with the Razyr or just a regular drilling.


It was too bad for WRW--I think the comparison with Del Ballard is right on. Just as Ballard would obviously prefer not to bounce his shot off the 1, I know Walter Ray would rather use stronger equipment on the Cheetah, but since he committed to throwing the same shot on both sides, he was limited by the amount of movement he could get with his strongest ball on the Shark pattern.

I hope next time WRW considers changing his strategy for the stepladder finals. I don't know if there's enough of an opportunity there for him to build a rhythm like he must do during the week.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/12/09 09:58 AM

Some thoughts:

Randy: I don't know what changed, but he finally said ball names, instead of just "dull" or "shiny". Thank you Randy, or the PBA, or whomever. It was great the be updated in real time as people changed equipment.

PA: The razyr gave him some major over under. When he switched to the Vibe, he got a real great look. Kudos to him. He looked great on the Shark the whole time.

Walter Ray: Ouch. I can't believe he went down like that - when he got up, he looked like a mix of embarrassed for laying down, and disgusted for making a bad shot. It looked like he tugged that one, so it didn't hook up like the others. Also, that was the new Response, which is Mo's 2nd weakest ball after the Mojave, so I don't think it burned up. I just think he tugged it and it never finished into its roll phase. CoachJim - remember that first ball he threw on the Shark, where it hooked about half a board at the end of the lane, coming in high? They showed a few lane level shots? That was what my shot looked like on the ToC pattern, if it hooked at all.

Barnes: It didn't end up mattering, but that guy needs to learn how to concentrate on his spare shots. Seems like he's been struggling with under-reaction a lot lately too, like the ball is falling off his hand early or something.

Malott: That was a Silver Streak on the right lane. He breaks my heart. He has so much talent, and it seems like his mental game is just completely missing. He does not possess the killer instinct. You throw a split against Duke, or WRW, or PA, or Rash, and you're done. They will step on your throat. Throw one against Wes, big deal. He won't do anything about it. Randy used his "efficiency of motion" line on him. I have never heard him say that about anyone other than PDW. That is the caliber of talent this guy has, and it's just wasted. Even in his interview that they showed mid-match, it seemed like he just... didn't want it. Like he's going through the motions.
Posted by: Handful

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/12/09 11:39 AM


My point is that it's wrong to dis-bleave he left that shot. [/quote]

What are you talking about? I don't Care if your a stroker, Tweener, or throw a house ball. When you throw a ball in the pocket, the last thing anyone is thinking is, "boy I sure hope I don't leave a pocket 8,10". Yes I am in disbelief, I figure a weak shot would have gotten him a solid 10, which would have given him a roll off with PA, eight pins to loose? That's painful.
Posted by: leftykev

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/12/09 12:07 PM

Yes it's painfull and everyone is in disblief, but he is only human. But, as cgeorg indicates: He made a bad shot, and I said, because it was a weak shot. Even pros make bad and/or weak shots. We just don't see them more often, since we aren't there during qualifying.

It was just as unbelievable as the 7pin that Chris Barnes missed and the pocket 7-10 Patrick Allen left.
Posted by: bluesman_vt_2002

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/12/09 12:35 PM

What would be really interesting to me would be to hear what Walter Ray thought of that shot. Would he have thought it was weak? You can hear him at the tail end, right before he got up to shoot the spare, something about "getting the pins on spot".

Now I don't know if that was him saying 'come on, what's up with this pair not spotting pins correctly'; Allen had an issue with it earlier when they wouldn't give him the second re-rack (the "stuff it in that rack" shot)or if he was just disgusted with himself for not seeing that they weren't in the right spot and not asking for the rerack.

Either way, back break for a great bowler. That happens in this game sometimes, we know it, he knows it. Just happened at a really, really bad time, as stated before.
Posted by: Satyuros

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/12/09 07:34 PM

Lefty, it's the fact that it was an 8-10. Experienced bowlers know how rare it is to leave an 8-10, using normal equipment with ANY sort of rev rate and anything weighing over 14 pounds. It happens FAR less then a 7-10 or missing a single pin. PA bowled really good for the whole thing, I give him props, but he let walter in at the end of the match and realistically it should've gone to him.
Posted by: BIGHMW

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/12/09 11:30 PM

After reviewing both the DVD I recorded of the show, and also seeing it on YouTube, it was confirmed that my suspicions were right. The 5-pin went in front of the 8 and he also left a flat-10 at the same time, and yes he was using not just a MoRich Response, but a polished-up Response at that so it would hook even less.

That ball eventually cost WRW the title. Also he got it more in the oil on the Cheetah Pattern, the first shot he threw in the 8th and 10th frames (the frst ball) were more down the boards as opposed to that shot in the 11th Frame, which was more like the "ol' high-hard-one", and even when he threw it Deadeye was down on one knee, not knowing what to expect.

Well, here it is, you be the judge, should Walter Ray have asked for a rerack before throwing that crucial shot? You can hear him murmur to himself the thought of it after the shot and horrible result.



Thanks, and may the BowlingFans.com PBA Hot Stove League commence another meeting of the minds on this one.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 09:46 AM

I have left many 8-10s in my day. It happens. Ball comes in flat, not much angle into the pocket. It happens. It just happened to him when he needed at least a 9 count. You can get all sorts of upset about it but, those are the breaks.
Posted by: NewEnglandBowler

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 01:31 PM

on second thought, after watching the video on youtube, walter ray did miss light a bit, so that would explain the 10 pin. And the ball did hit the 5 pin, which was untouched otherwise. it looks to me like the ball was light in the pocket just enough to drive straight through the three pin, at an angle such that the three pin hit the 6 into the channel and the ball followed the three pin to hit the 5 at an angle such that the 5 went in front of the 8 without hitting it. the only thing i can think of as an explanation for this is that the ball deflected too much because it was too light.

edit: yes, the above explanation is almost exactly what happened.
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 01:41 PM

8-10's are not that rare, watched an opponent in my summer league leave 2 in a row on the same lane, hit weak both times. Straighter, low rev players tend to leave them from time to time on that hit.

Mark
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 02:23 PM

Mkrichie:

I did it at a tourney at Ohio St. years ago. During practice, I was carrying pretty good with a dulled up Turbo-X. First frame: 10 pin spare, 8-10, 8 pin spare, 8-10, 8-10. Now, I did nothing different and I had a decent line and was hitting pocket. The 4th and 5th frame, I moved from playing inside to out side and still left them. My coach looked at me and then looked at the seat next to him. That is where I was for the next game and a half.
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 02:57 PM

shocked All I have to say to that is wow. I don't think I've had anything like that happen to me, and if I did, I probably remember it quite well.

Mark
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 03:00 PM

I think I said wow along with a bunch of other words that would get censored on here. Oh well. You live and you learn.
Posted by: Jay R.

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 05:16 PM

Funny that you mention that ad luck GP. It was just practice but my driller had left 3 7-10s in a row on the right lane one time. It was crazy.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 07:54 PM

When WRW threw that ball and left the 8-10 I sent and received a text message and both of those said "wow.."


It was weird.
Posted by: BIGHMW

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: General Pounder
I think I said wow along with a bunch of other words that would get censored on here. Oh well. You live and you learn.


Me too.

I was (as PA was) in complete shock when I saw Deadeye leave the 8-10, but when I reviewed the shot on the YouTube link I provided on this thread, it hit kinda weak when it got to the pocket. It might have also rolled out and lost its energy as it hit the pins.

I also have a hunch that Walter Ray was using 15-pound equipment, thinking that the technology of today's balls would be enough, but as you saw when he left the 8-10, he either missed it in the bottom, or got into the (remaining) oil on the Cheetah pattern, and the ball just never picked up down lane, and as a result, his MoRich Response deflected a bit too much, and that was what cost him the title IMO.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/13/09 11:59 PM

I don't think weight was a factor in the leave. I've left many more weak (and stone) 8-10's with 16 pound equipment than I have with 15 pound equipment. My personal experience aside, I think he just pushed it a bit too much and didn't hit high enough in the pocket to carry the 8 or 10. If you notice the strike he threw prior to the 8-10, it was high flush and had some "mustard" on it. The second ball was a little more in the pocket (not as high flush) with nearly the same speed.

Now, it may very well be that the 5 or 8 was off spot, but you either take a re-rack if you can or adjust your target accordingly. Don't complain after the fact. I really think he just threw it too flat in the pocket and the 5 slid in front of the 8. Either way, it wasn't really a quality shot - not compared to what he made the first ball in the 10th.

Just my observation, though.
Posted by: Brandon510

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 01:04 AM

Just a Note on WRW leaving 8-10, he noted that he missed left and didnt hit the target he did on the first ball in the 10th.

Originally Posted By: PBA.COM

I drifted a hair left on the second ball and didnt get it to the right spot, seeing the 8-pin standing was like somebody shot me, Williams said. I got a few good breaks this week, I just needed one more.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 07:20 AM

From the pins:
Quote:
GET THAT WEAK <CENSORED> OUT OF HERE!


From me: nelson
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 09:44 AM

haha, CoachJim thats great!
Posted by: NewEnglandBowler

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 01:08 PM

I hate to laugh at that, Jim, but that is hilarious
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 06:08 PM

WRW does use 15 lbs, and has for a few years. During last seasons trick shot competition Chris Barnes took a dig at him for it. After WRW's ball deflected too much trying for some sort of weird split set up, Barnes said that wouldn't have happened if you used a man's weight.

Also that was hilarious CoachJim.
Posted by: BIGHMW

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: infernocal
WRW does use 15 lbs, and has for a few years. During last seasons trick shot competition Chris Barnes took a dig at him for it. After WRW's ball deflected too much trying for some sort of weird split set up, Barnes said that wouldn't have happened if you used a man's weight.

Also that was hilarious CoachJim.


I guess then that my hunch was correct about Walter Ray using 15-pound equipment.

Nelson Burton Jr. used to condemn players using 15 pound balls after they leave a weak-10 on an apparent good hit, and had for a number of years. I used to hear him say that 15-pound balls hit weak when he was on ABC Sports about a few years ago before they pulled the plug on the PBA back in 1997.

I myself have used 16-pound balls since I started bowling seriously back in 1989, and have heard the cons and pros about players using lighter balls over the 20+ years I have been involved in tbis great sport, and I think that no matter how good the technology of today's equipment is, there are always going to be debates on its use, especially in serious competition.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 09:32 PM

Randy has brought the weight issue up on several occasions as well, especially when a bowler is using 15s, playing an extreme deep angle and having an issue kicking out a corner pin, 7s for lefties and 10s for righties. Like you said there will always be debates over which weight is best, as there are going to be people on both sides that think they are right.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 10:37 PM

If WRW would have been using a 16lb ball, it would have burned out quicker and hit even weaker. He drifted left which caused him to hang the ball out to the right and the ball burned up early which is the only way to leave an 8-10.

A 14lb ball may have carried for him or at least left a weak 10, a 16 would have left a 5-7-10 and he would have dropped back to number two or they would do the d. weber piece again and said dw was number two on the top 50 and not mentioned Walter Ray. I would have had to have been rushed to the hospital from laughing to the point where I would have passed out.

Plain and simple he threw a bad shot, he is human after millions of shots some of them are going to be bad from time to time even when thrown by the number something or other bowler of all time.

So if Walter can throw a bad shot, then so can the rest of us, so give yourselves a break.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/14/09 11:31 PM

Originally Posted By: BIGHMW
Nelson Burton Jr. used to condemn players using 15 pound balls after they leave a weak-10 on an apparent good hit, and had for a number of years. I used to hear him say that 15-pound balls hit weak when he was on ABC Sports about a few years ago before they pulled the plug on the PBA back in 1997.

<soapbox>"Bo" Burton is a blowhard who is so full of himself it's ridiculous and I, for one, was absolutely elated when they pulled the plug on him (I hated hearing him do commentary for the latest women's events, though). Listening to him yammer on about "what bowlers should be doing" or "it's inexcusable for a professional to miss a single-pin spare" is akin to listening to Johnny Miller and Lanny Wadkins (thank God CBS axed that joker) browbeat top touring pros for their decisions and games. Hey, old guys, what is it; "if you can't beat them, ridicule them on TV?" Look, if you're so damn good why don't you get out there and strut your stuff, ok? Put your money where your mouth is, otherwise can it and leave the personal editorials out of the commentary. How's that?</soapbox>

Originally Posted By: BIGHMW
I myself have used 16-pound balls since I started bowling seriously back in 1989, and have heard the cons and pros about players using lighter balls over the 20+ years I have been involved in tbis great sport, and I think that no matter how good the technology of today's equipment is, there are always going to be debates on its use, especially in serious competition.

I switched from 16 to 15 pound equipment 7 years ago and am thankful I did. I leave far fewer 9 pins than I used to and I actually get more on the ball than I used to because I'm not fighting the weight of the ball in my hand. Yes, one pound is a major difference. Even 8 ounces is noticeable. I won't say it's a move everyone should make, but for some people it does help.

I'm sure part of the reason why WRW went to 15 pounds is because he's 49 and the 15 pound equipment doesn't wear him out as fast as 16 pound equipment did. But, as Jim said, he threw a bad shot, and he paid dearly for it. 99 times out of 100 that shot at least carries the 10 or 8, or even strikes. That happened to be the 1 time it didn't. How many times has any one of us thrown a somewhat bad shot when we needed it and paid the price for the mistake? Yeah, everyone should be raising their hand on that one. I know mine's in the air.

He'll have more chances to take another step towards 50 titles, don't you worry.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/15/09 06:40 AM

Quote:
<soapbox>"Bo" Burton is a blowhard who is so full of himself it's ridiculous and I, for one, was absolutely elated when they pulled the plug on him (I hated hearing him do commentary for the latest women's events, though). Listening to him yammer on about "what bowlers should be doing" or "it's inexcusable for a professional to miss a single-pin spare" is akin to listening to Johnny Miller and Lanny Wadkins (thank God CBS axed that joker) browbeat top touring pros for their decisions and games. Hey, old guys, what is it; "if you can't beat them, ridicule them on TV?" Look, if you're so [censored] good why don't you get out there and strut your stuff, ok? Put your money where your mouth is, otherwise can it and leave the personal editorials out of the commentary. How's that?</soapbox>


Related story, my friend and I went to the 84 Fair Lanes Open at Capital Plaza. We sat in the stands and just let all of the pros move by us instead of following one bowler and missing someone.

After a few games, Nelson Burton Jr. struts up to the lanes in front of us and gets on a 3 or 4 bagger then on his next shot the ball hits the pocket and he is running them out at this point and leaves the 5...7...10. He spins around with his fist pumped, his face in disbelief as to the results of such a tremendous shot. At this point my friend points at NBjr, and BELLY LAUGHS. He was laughing so hard I and others sitting around us couldn't help but laugh too and the more he laughed the funnier it got. Old NBjr was staring daggers at us. After the laughing calmed down I said "I guess now is not a good time to ask him for his autograph" and the laughing started up again.

Then someone a little bit away from us yelled "Hey Nelson, DO YOU WANT A DRESS WITH THAT?" Laughing erupts again. I think NBjr finished with a 185 if I remember.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/15/09 07:39 AM

I'm starting to laugh just reading the story. Running out a 5-7-10, he deserves every bit that he got.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/15/09 09:55 AM

What I was bowling in college, there was a guy who bowled for Indiana. The guy was a real piece of work putting it nicely. I see his name from time to time in the TQRs. IU was leading the tourney by a good measure. This guy had a 5 or 6 bagger working and left the 5-7-10. We all started laughing at him. He threw is spare ball as fast as he could and missed them all which caused us to laugh harder. He walked back with both hands in the air giving everyone the finger and said: "F you guys, were in first and you guys suck." They ended up losing the tourney grin
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/15/09 10:09 AM

By the way to add to the 15 versus 16 pound arguement, both Tommy Jones and Wes Mallot throw 15 pounds because both have said with their rev rates 16 pounds actually hits so hard that they have a hard time keeping the pins low to the deck with them. Actually there are very few touring pros that are throwing 16 pound equiptment anymore, Chris Barnes being one. The 16 pound ball has become the minority in the PBA now, I believe you can count the players using 16 pound equiptment on one hand.
Posted by: BIGHMW

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/15/09 05:13 PM

I too, debated with myself and thought about switching to 15-pound equipment a few years back, thinking that I would be able to get a higher rev rate with the lighter balls, but my pro shop guy, John DeWitt at J.D.'s Pro Shop at my home house, All-Star Lanes in Silverdale, WA, about 40 miles from my home here in Port Townsend, said that I already throw the ball too hard as it is, and I have for the past several years have been fighting losing the ball in the point of release, causing me to drop my right shoulder (which I know I shouldn't be doing considering that I throw the ball straight), and when I am playing outside around 5-8-board, the ball hits the proverbial "Grey Board" or misses right of target.

Should I talk to my pro shop guy (John) about gearing down to 15-pound ball next season, after all I am going to be 43 this May, and I think that maybe Father Time and a lack of practice are starting to catch up with me.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/15/09 06:51 PM

If you lose the ball at the release point, it doesn't fit right. Have your grip checked.

I'm doing some calculations about 16 vs. 15 pound equipment, and assuming you are able to put the same amount of energy into your release, the rev rate gain from doing to 15lbs from 16 is pretty negligible (about .3%). I think the biggest reason for moving to 15 is less fatigue, and increased deflection. When I threw 16, my stuff hit too hard. (I'll probably be looking into deflection more as well.)
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? - 01/16/09 09:30 AM

This past summer, I was contemplating moving down to 15. I was talking it over with a guy who bowls in my summer league who is a Regional Pro. He said that since I don't have any problems throwing a 16lb ball, he sees no reason to make the switch. I brought up the extra revs people have seen by going to 15 and he told me that I didn't need it.

15 vs 16 is going to go on for a while. Moving down or up just to do so is silly. If you are getting too much deflection with a 15, then move to 16. If your arm is getting tired too quickly or you have other physical limitation, move to 15. Other than that, standing pat is the best thing to do.