More swearing on ESPN...

Posted by: eastwest

More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 02:20 PM

Simard just blared "holy sh*t dude!" to Wes Malott before the telecast went to break...

What the heck is goin' with these guys this season!? You're on tv man!!
Posted by: Chubbs

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 02:47 PM

Bad form, yet again thumbsdown. Either start closing their mikes while they're not rolling, or just take the mikes away. I don't think hearing them adds that much to the show, anyway.
Posted by: eastwest

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 02:48 PM

Wes just said "god dam*it" after leaving the 10 pin in the 10th frame. Ridiculous!
Posted by: eastwest

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 02:49 PM

Chubbs, I agree. The mics add nothing, because most pros won't talk much when focusing.
Posted by: whiz

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 02:52 PM

yeah its been ridiculous lately...
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 03:50 PM

Some of the pros are very active with talking to themselves like Patrick Allen and a few others, but I agree the mics don't really add to anything other than the occasional funny comment.

I also don't really take much offense to some of the swearing.
Posted by: BIGHMW

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 03:56 PM

Yeah, I agree. Why doesn't the PBA do anything about it, like fining the offending players, or do they just not care anymore?

Time for ESPN to start utilizing a 5-second delay (the broadcast networks already utilize this) on its live telecasts of the PBA, this most recent spree of cussing on TV (don't forget about Sean "F-bomb" Rash) the last three weeks including this incident, is definitely degrading our sport and dragging it further through the mud.

I know that our great sport has been degraded to being shown only on cable on Sunday mornings (where nobody watches anything but the NFL, NBA, and NASCAR), but the players ought to know that there are kids out there who are watching their bowling idols/role models throw strikes and inspire the next generation of "young guns" to live the dream of join the Tour, and cussing on national TV (albeit cable) is not tolerable, so please guys, save the cussing either for league night or when you're at home watching it on TV.
Posted by: eastwest

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 04:02 PM

Just a note, that I don't find any of it personally offensive, but it bothers me that our sport will get an even worse rep with this kind of language coming from men who are supposed to present a quality image.

BIGHMW, 100% agreed.
Posted by: Chubbs

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: infernocal
Some of the pros are very active with talking to themselves like Patrick Allen and a few others, but I agree the mics don't really add to anything other than the occasional funny comment.

I also don't really take much offense to some of the swearing.


Cal-

It's not so much that I take personal offense to it because its not like I've never heard these words used before. The problem is that it makes the sport an even more difficult sell to sponsors, and even to a network to carry the shows. If this trend coninues, the tour will eventually find itself without a television partner and without adequate sponsorship to continue operation. A judgement day like that may not come tomorrow or the next day, but this trend has to stop right now.
Posted by: Justinmill14

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 05:13 PM

Your right it does need to stop. But us talking about it on this forum isn't going to make it stop. Someone needs to actually do something to stop it.
Posted by: BIGHMW

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Justinmill14
Your right it does need to stop. But us talking about it on this forum isn't going to make it stop. Someone needs to actually do something to stop it.


In the glory days of the PBA, either Joe Antenora or Mike Connor would have done something about it (ask Pete Weber about his multiple suspensions they had laid on him over those years).

Don't get me wrong now, I am a hardcore underground musician, who is totally against censorship, and pro free speech, and I do cuss on my albums and when i play in concert. Now that is a stage where such material is tolerable. However, television is a much different venue that underground clubs like The Ritz in NYC or Whiskey A-Go-Go in L.A., you have to mind some P's and Q's when you are on TV, it's not the same as playing live in concert where you, the artist, dictate what you do onstage, period.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 06:01 PM

In reference to Ken Simard, he probably believed they were into the break already as it came a few seconds after he said it. Sean Rash is a different story he did it between his frame and the other bowler's first ball.

I'm not saying that it's ok and nothing should be done about it, but that's for the PBA or ESPN to decide on, but since ESPN isn't getting fined I doubt they will so it's really on the PBA. Who knows maybe these guys are getting a warning for a first offense we don't know about. I'm sure they have some sort of conduct policy for their tournaments but it's really nothing new, just that it's getting caught on the mics.

As for the argument it is dragging down the reputation of this sport, that doesn't cut it with me. Bowlers already have that reputation of being beer swilling, overweight potty mouths. So it's not bringing it down just not helping to elevate it.

I also believe there are other more important issues that are keeping bowling down than a few Pro bowler's slip of the tongue on TV in the heat of the moment.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 06:20 PM

I'd just take the mics away. I don't think it adds anything to the show the minimal amount of self talk that does go on. Tiger Woods isn't going to wear a mic when he's playing a tournament. Some of the fun events sure, but not in serious tournament play. I think it was Mallot that said the swear to Simard after his big game. But could be wrong. Plus I think he did not believe he was in mic range or even on TV at that point. I don't think he should be fined for that one. The one after the 10 pin, sure if those are the rules.

Erin
Posted by: Chubbs

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: infernocal
Bowlers already have that reputation of being beer swilling, overweight potty mouths. So it's not bringing it down just not helping to elevate it.

I also believe there are other more important issues that are keeping bowling down than a few Pro bowler's slip of the tongue on TV in the heat of the moment.


Cal-
Agreed on both counts, sort of. Bowling is what it is, but that doesn't mean that efforts can't be made to clean up and elevate its image. What I've been saying is that the PBA can't afford this kind of thing if it wants to be able to pitch itself to bigger money sponsors and regain some lost credibility/ marketability.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 07:05 PM

I don't think a few swears on tv is going to do anything sponsor wise. The problem with sponsors is a matter of how many people watch. The people really tuning in to the PBA telecasts are other bowlers and not all of them do. It's also aired at the same time as football. It's not like football, baseball or basketball that is often watched by others that don't play those sports. That's what sponsors want, tv viewers to see their products.

The lost credibility is of bowling as a whole, not the PBA. USBC and ABC/WIBC before them have more to do with that and the PBA suffers from that lost credibility.
Posted by: RLD

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Atochabsh
I'd just take the mics away. I don't think it adds anything to the show the minimal amount of self talk that does go on....
Count my vote for taking the mics away. thumbsup
Posted by: Rack Wrecker

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 11/30/08 10:56 PM

I know that personally, swearing doesn't make me flinch at all nor does it bother me on TV. The problem is that not everyone is as liberal as me and as lenient on cussing as I am. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this type of thing but in my opinion, it doesn't phase me. I myself swear while bowling as do plenty of people I've seen around me. However, being a professional and being on TV, it is automatically a different story and people must be careful. I agree that the sponsors probably won't bat an eyelash at this type of thing but its still probably not a good idea to tempt, simply because its TV and they are supposed to be professionals. I guess the biggest issue I have is that freedom of speech is great and I agree with it in this case. But, you won't see televised baseball games or football games with the players swearing on. I don't think bowling should be any different even though I don't particularly mind swearing.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 12:31 AM

I think the swearing issue is overblown on a lot of fronts. So they're pros, but they're human, too, and I have bowled with Ken Simard on a couple of occasions and I know his language isn't always, well, "clean" - more like colorful (I can relate). Personally, I don't care, and I don't feel the "f-bombs" or anything along those lines are killing sponsorships or the credibility of the sport. The sport itself has diminished its credibility on its own, but I digress.

What bothers me is the double standard that sponsors and viewers seem to have. I didn't hear any outrage from viewers or sponsors after Tiger Woods had this outburst. Nobody's asking to take away the mics from the tee box or from the fairway reporters. Tiger might've been fined, but nobody's saying, "Gee, how unprofessional of him to do that." Golf seems to be pretty strong and it's still selling, and it's supposed to be a "white collar sport" and "gentleman's game". But let's not swear on the lanes - no no, what a travesty that would be. People aren't as "shocked" by swearing on TV or by athletes as much as they were 20, even 30 years ago.

Originally Posted By: infernocal
I also believe there are other more important issues that are keeping bowling down than a few Pro bowler's slip of the tongue on TV in the heat of the moment.

I couldn't agree more. At least women's bowling is trying to make a comeback Hopefully none of them will cuss. Couldn't have that, now, could we?
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 01:02 AM

Well, I didn't get to see or hear this. It seems that snow on my satellite dish, disrupted the transmission. It is now almost midnight, and I still am without any TV.

I got to paint the front hall, and put up some XMas decorations, instead.

About 10 pm, I called my satellite service to see if there was anything I could do. Got some young lady in Idaho, who put me through some restart, and unplug/replug routines. All to no avail. Then she switched me to the technical department. I waited a few minutes for someone to pick up, and explained my problem again. Then she gave me her technical advice. She noticed there was snow in the Chicago forecast, and said that was the problem. I went outside, looked on the roof and could see snow building up on the dish. I asked her how to get it off. She said, "make snowballs, and throw them at the dish. It may shake the rest of the snow off."

Great technical support!!! Throw snowballs.

I think I'll make a snowman too, while I am out there.
Posted by: JedC

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 06:50 AM

Cursing in general has become a more nonchalant thing overall in the last 20 years or so. Look at some of today's TV shows that you can find on basic cable. South Park especially. After a while they were allowed to pretty much say anything but the F word and glorified all of it by overusing it as much as possible. That's on cable TV, much like bowling is. Anyone with cable can access either show as they so please. Granted, a sport is supposed to be more professional than that, but professional sports in general are taking a dive in the image department as well. Some of it is scripted (WWE stuff, which is a "professional" "sport" and people there said and did things little kids shouldn't be seeing or hearing) and some of it just comes from people who let their fame and fortune get to them. Pacman Jones, I'm looking your way. As you'll notice though, all these things continue to keep happening. The image of sports overall declines more and more, with seemingly nothing being done about it. Why is that?

It sells. Controversy creates cash, as they say. People don't want to see "boring" stuff anymore. They want edgy or anything that breaks from the norm. Tiger Woods breaks from the norm because of his skill at the game, but you know who's probably #2 on the most popular golfers list? John Daly. Look at all the crap he does and people eat it up. Two of the most popular poker players? Phil Hellmuth and Mike Matusow. Hellmuth is one of the best there's ever been, but people don't watch for that. They watch to see his next explosion after a bad beat. Matusow is also a great, just hasn't had the same amount of winning in his career, but again, people watch to see that meltdown.

I'm a part of that too, on league night. I carry either a 216 or 217 on tonight's league (haven't seen the sheet yet to be sure) and get along well with everyone, but I have my history with me of being a loose cannon. I won't lie, I curse quite a bit. The vast majority of the time it's under my breath and no one can hear me, at least. I used to let everything get to me. I used to hit machines, walls, chairs, etc. But, I was immature when it came to the game, and completely unprofessional. Odd part about it? People wanted to see it. They would watch and wait to see what my next colorful comment or outburst would be. They really didn't do much about it overall because I never went at anyone or cursed at someone directly, and I still never have. I've had people get in my face before though. There was an argument once over a late 10 pin falling, and the dude who's like 30-40 years old (I was 18 at this time) got in my face about it and words were exchanged. Eventually he said "Well you're just a little f'n a'hole aren't you?" And I said "Yeah, I am an a'hole. Deal with it." For whatever reason, that prompted him to shove me into a ball rack and a scuffle ensued between my team and his. People were holding me back like I was gonna do something, I was standing there laughing at the guy. I'm a lot more relaxed and a lot better than I used to be though, so I disappoint people sometimes if I don't go off on something, heh.

Getting back on topic now, it's a society thing. Cursing used to be completely taboo, and now it's getting more relaxed and is becoming part of every day speech. When I'm with family or friends, we don't even think about it, the words are just there. That translates into league night. I was talking with my mother once while I was struggling one time, and I said "I dunno what the f to do." Just completely casually. I wasn't mad, it was just me talking to her, and someone overheard it and "took offense." Granted, the people in question were elderly and I live in an area where people of age are pretty hardcore about that kind of stuff what with religion and all (Bible area), but still. I'm also Italian, so you know how that goes, heh.

But, I do agree that our sport needs to be a bit more professional. I do have plans to join the PBA and would hope that when I do, it's still the PBA and not turned into something like the XFL. But, think about it. Those of us that love and embrace the sport would be sickened to see an "extreme" pro bowler's league. Can you say the same for society as a whole?
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 07:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael




About 10 pm, I called my satellite service to see if there was anything I could do. Got some young lady in Idaho, who put me through some restart, and unplug/replug routines. All to no avail.





Dennis,
At least you did'nt get someone trying to fix your problem in Chicago, giving you advice from.. India...in broken english non the less.
Posted by: Chubbs

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 10:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
What bothers me is the double standard that sponsors and viewers seem to have. I didn't hear any outrage from viewers or sponsors after Tiger Woods had this outburst. Nobody's asking to take away the mics from the tee box or from the fairway reporters. Tiger might've been fined, but nobody's saying, "Gee, how unprofessional of him to do that." Golf seems to be pretty strong and it's still selling, and it's supposed to be a "white collar sport" and "gentleman's game". But let's not swear on the lanes - no no, what a travesty that would be. People aren't as "shocked" by swearing on TV or by athletes as much as they were 20, even 30 years ago.


You're right, there is a double standard in the case of TW. To hear Nike, the PGA, AMEX etc. tell it, he's a water walker. I'm one of a handful of golfers/golf fans who don't like his act. Appreciate the scope of his talents, yes, but that's where it ends.

It's not golf that's strong and still selling, it's Tiger.How much have you heard about golf in the past few months outside of the occasional interview with Tiger about his rehab? Even at the Ryder Cup, while the Americans were winning without him, the conversation always came back to the god that is Tiger. It's ridiculous. You don't hear anybody hold Tiger accountable for things like you mentioned because to do so would be to become a pariah. He's become bigger than the sport, and it will eventually do serious harm to the game of golf in America. You can already see it in the lack of interest in the game when he's not playing. How will it be when he quits playing altogether?

To sum up, you're correct that there is a double standard. However, it doesn't excuse anybody's conduct.
Posted by: eastwest

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 11:39 AM

Wow, what an opinionated thread this came to be. Some of y'all got quite defensive :-o

I'll make my point again that the swearing does not bother me personally. I, as I'm sure you all do, hear "colorful" language on a daily basis. What DOES seem to be the problem about swearing on the PBA broadcasts, is the negative effect this could have on the growth of bowling.

I understand fully there are bigger issues at hand for the sport, but it by no means helps our situation by having Rash, Simard, Malott or any pro casually dropping F bombs and what not on a weekly basis. Think of the youth bowlers who will personally choose, or have their parents decide for them, that they don't want their kid turning to a sport filled with bad actors. That's not what our sport is, but when the only exposure to a national audience is the Sunday event, the pros should do what they can to elevate bowling.

As the saying goes... "if you're not growing, you're dying".
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 05:57 PM

I guess, as always, I am an "oddball" with my thinking. I really don't care about "image" - you do something because you like it and you do the best you can at it. I didn't decide to resume playing golf 8 years ago because of Tiger. I didn't play hockey as a kid because of Wayne Gretzky. I didn't play basketball because of Michael Jordan. I didn't play football or baseball because of (insert 80's superstar here). I did them because I liked them. If those "idols" did something stupid and broke the law or *gasp* swore, well, Holy Moses, you mean they're actually human? They're not gods or immortal? You don't say...

Yes, I, too, am colorful with my language. I use the f-word and the like as everyday adjectives, nouns, and adverbs. I also am very harsh on myself when I screw up, and, invariably, those words come flying out and I'll cuss myself like a dog. I haven't cussed out another bowler in a few years, at least someone who didn't deserve it (the last time for that was nearly 20 years ago). People have been known to put a pool on me to see when I'll blow up next, and, like JedC, I've been rather "tame" and "disappointing" as far as entertainment value, but I've had my moments and probably will struggle with my "passion" for as long as I play the game.

I understand the flip side of the argument, but I don't buy it, really. I know that by default, sports figures are iconic in nature and are held to be "role models", but kids' icons and role models should be their parents and their elders, not some guy/gal on TV. Oh, sure, I idolized Jordan, Gretzky, Mark McGwire, etc. when I was growing up. But I knew they were a) human and b) the elite of their respective sports, and because they weren't actually immortal, they would make human mistakes. But that's because my true idols, my parents, taught me the difference a long time ago. I agreed with Charles Barkley when he said, "I am not a role model". He wasn't. Society made him a role model, but he was not a role model, and he wasn't mine, but he had entertainment value almost in a "WWE-like" fashion. I thought he was hilarious.

And you can single out the bad seeds of any sport - the "Pacman Joneses" of any sport - but really, those are few and far between. Pete Weber, for years, was a j erk, and honestly, still is to a certain degree, but he's now considered "intense and passionate" as opposed to "a jack-ass" 20-30 years ago. Sure, for some it would be nice to see 4 or 5 guys being "pleasant" on the lanes week after week, but not me. Bowling is a "do or die" sport - there are no mulligans or second chances. I want to see someone's passion for the sport, whether it's deemed "good" or "bad", not some stupid robot that throws a ball in the ditch on a 4 bagger and says, "oh, pooh, I made a boo-boo". That's unrealistic. I would dare say the bulk of you who read and post to this board don't go "oh, pooh, I made a boo-boo" when you make some really bad mistake at work, now do you? I'm sure something short of the "f-bomb" is let loose at some point unless those words aren't in your vocabulary. You may not openly show your disgust at yourself, and if you don't, cherish the fact that you can control your emotions that well, but the rest of humanity isn't blessed with that kind of control.

But back to the actual topic; if you want to eliminate the opportunity for a cuss word to come out, take away the mics, whether it's strapped to the athlete themselves, or on the field of play (the parabolic mics on the sidelines of NFL games come to mind as well as the tee box mics on the golf courses). If that's not plausible, do the delay. Otherwise, if you want "up front, edge of your seat, real-time action", you're going to have to put up with "up front, edge of your seat, real-time action language", and it's not always G or PG rated.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 06:10 PM

Eastwest, I found this to be a rather nice discussion that covered a variety of topics including some great technical support from a satellite company.

Dennis, throw snowballs at the dish to dislodge snow? You would think that people that work for a satellite company would know that hitting them can knock them off alignment. Over the last several months I've been working in rental apartment and townhouse complexes where these dishes are installed on a cinder block, in a bucket of concrete or attached to a rail and we try to avoid touching them at all.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 07:35 PM

Originally Posted By: infernocal

Dennis, throw snowballs at the dish to dislodge snow? You would think that people that work for a satellite company would know that hitting them can knock them off alignment. Over the last several months I've been working in rental apartment and townhouse complexes where these dishes are installed on a cinder block, in a bucket of concrete or attached to a rail and we try to avoid touching them at all.


In most cases, it is against apartment rules or Condo Declarations to permanently afix a satellite dish to the building. Hence, the concrete bucket and a pole. But, that never stopped the cable guy from running cable all over the outside of the building to wire from room to room.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 08:16 PM

I know its against the rules to permanently afix a satellite dish to a building in most of those properties. My point is that we who don't have anything to do with the satellites know that you don't do anything that could cause the dish to move slightly yet someone that is part of technical services is giving advice that can do so. Even if we are working on a single house residence that has a dish installed on the house we take great care around it as to not throw off it's alignment with the satellites its receiving signals from.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/01/08 09:54 PM

Cal, and others interested:

Check this out. A snow/rain cover for your satellite dish.

http://www.wedgiecovers.com/
Posted by: 180fury

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 05:05 AM

dennis just shoot the dish and the snow will surely fall off laugh and you would also have a drain hole for the rain and snow to go through. thumbsup or just throw a bowling ball while your at it. geez i know what you mean cal by people in a tech department telling you to do something like that. but most have no real idea that there is a real world out there either.

the espn thing.... just lose the mikes and problem solved. i agree with erin. also look at nascar and anything that is ufc or wwe. not much people losing interest there. so i think its going to be ok if something gets past , but the 5 second deley's not a bad idea either. yes bowling has a bad rep. but so does nascar. i love both and i love watching ufc to. and it most defently has a bad rep. but it is 2008 and thats just how things is now or days. things anit going back to the 40's or 60's sorry. people just think it is and its not. if things like american idol and anything on mtv can be on tv then things are not going to get better. but that is also espn's fault for letting them guys have mikes. and they shouldn't be live. just taped and cut. about it. also i do like your outlook on it brian. it makes sense. plus i'm no saint either. so i agree with ya.


Posted by: cgeorg

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 07:10 AM

Ok, I missed this the first time around, so I went back on my DVR last night and watched.

I fail to see the big stink. The guy, in his second time on TV, trying for his first title, shoots a 289 with the front 10. In a moment when there is no reason for any microphone near him to be on, he expresses genuine nervousness/excitement/almost relief that the pressure of that game is over. It seemed almost like he had been holding his breath for 10 frames, and finally let it out with that comment to Wes.

Good for him for being human.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 08:31 AM

Getting the ice and snow out of your satellite dish can be a pain. And, I really don't understand the technical expert telling me to throw a snowball at it. But, it worked.

180fury, I bet bird shot would have done it too.

Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 09:33 AM

Dennis,
See,..those techies in Idaho know a few things besides growing potatoes. Could have chucked a tater at it too I guess.

As for the bird shot, maybe a #8 shot.. keep those holes small...lol.
Posted by: eastwest

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 10:31 AM

Guys, I'm not knocking him for being HUMAN, lol :-) We're all human and all talk like that! I'm saying the fact they decide to broadcast that it the issue.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 10:43 AM

This is NOT a Human response, that would just be to show disappoitment. It is a learned response to use specific language, that is not appropriate over the airwaves.

But, the program is taking a risk that this will happen if they keep the mics on.

Sorry. We don't all talk like that.
Posted by: Chubbs

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 10:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
This is NOT a Human response, that would just be to show disappoitment. It is a learned response to use specific language, that is not appropriate over the airwaves.

But, the program is taking a risk that this will happen if they keep the mics on.

Sorry. We don't all talk like that.


Thank you, Dennis thumbsup. You beat me to it.
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 11:10 AM

I'm not so sure ESPN "decided" to broadcast that. Its a live telecast, and the word in question happened to be picked up by a live mic.
I think that the Sunday show is repeated on Monday on ESPN 2, and although I did not see it Monday, I bet that little comment by Simard it was edited out.
Posted by: eastwest

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 12:13 PM

Heh, ok after this post I'm done with this thread. I can't seem to make myself clear here without receiving fire.

1) I don't swear when I bowl. Some guys do, and that's ok. It doesn't bother me PERSONALLY, I just think it's bad for bowling to be on tv.

2) Emotions are natural, and all humans are emotional. Emotions and words are two different things. Again, I feel the words being pipe through the mics is a bad decision by ESPN.

3) Hope everyone's dish troubles are resolved.

Ciao.
Posted by: NewEnglandBowler

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By: eastwest
Emotions are natural, and all humans are emotional.


millions of high school students will disagree with you on that (and would be wrong, of course). a lot of people in high school take fire sometimes for being "emo," but usually those who do exemplify it.

on another note, i try not to swear while bowling as it is a junior league, but i am usually muttering under my breath and usually at how terrible and out of focus the last shot was when i do. Probably not the best method for regrouping, hopefully when i get that book Focused for Bowling i will be able to change it.


EDIT: Finally, i am not a bracket donor anymore grin
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: eastwest



2) Emotions are natural, and all humans are emotional. Emotions and words are two different things. Again, I feel the words being pipe through the mics is a bad decision by ESPN.





No fire intended eastwest..

I don't think ESPN consciously decided to let swearing be "piped"
through the mics. Its something that slipped through. They should have a 7 second delay to nip that stuff in the bud. Maybe they don't for bowling because they don't view it as a threat for swearing, or acting badly, and its a Live broadcast. If they do have a delay,..then someone is asleep at the wheel.

I have also heard swearing in all the other sports as well. They are Live events, and I imagine its hard to catch a swear word before its broadcasted over the air.
Posted by: JedC

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Tim Gerard
I have also heard swearing in all the other sports as well. They are Live events, and I imagine its hard to catch a swear word before its broadcasted over the air.


This. And not only do they pick up the language sometimes, you sometimes see unprofessional action from these "professionals" in other sports. Pitcher gives up 7 runs, sometimes he walks away quietly. Sometimes he punches coolers, throws things in the dugout, breaks a bat, yells at himself or his teammates in misdirected anger and no one bats an eye. That's just him "letting off steam".

Bowler says "GD" or the dreaded F bomb on TV and people want to hang him for being unprofessional. Sorry, but if I had children, I'd much rather them say a harmless word that people arbitrarily consider a "curse word" than to start punching or throwing things if they don't perform well. Words don't hurt people. Things being thrown can. The next time someone says "son of a b" after leaving a 10 pin on your league, be glad. He could've been like a baseball pitcher "letting off steam" and started throwing equipment.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 05:48 PM

Nothing against you, eastwest. My comment actually went to the post before yours. Yes, humans are emotional. But, their choice of words used exemplifies things like their level of maturity, mental capacity, expertness, accomplishment, and sometimes their lack of formal consciousness, education, and literacy.

Believe it or not, the words you select say a lot about you. And, the perception you leave with the listener defines your formal cognizance.

As bowlers, many of us are already thought of as portly, beer drinkers. Unintelligent boor is NOT something I wish to be called.
Posted by: TheDemolitionMan

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael


Believe it or not, the words you select say a lot about you. And, the perception you leave with the listener defines your formal cognizance.

As bowlers, many of us are already thought of as portly, beer drinkers. Unintelligent boor is NOT something I wish to be called.


Nor I. I like how Dennis is kind of touching on the Buddhist teaching of Right Speech without knowing it (or perhaps knowing about it). I think great deal of people nowadays would benefit from Right Speech especially the part about not babbling. grin
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 07:08 PM

Well, Buddha and I have a lot in common. We grew up together, and went to the same school.

Paulie "Buddha" Kaminski, that is.
Posted by: TheDemolitionMan

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/02/08 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Well, Buddha and I have a lot in common. We grew up together, and went to the same school.

Paulie "Buddha" Kaminski, that is.


Ha Ha...You're funny Dennis. rotfl grin
Posted by: 180fury

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/03/08 04:52 AM

humm demo you made me google something today thank you. i was looking for something to google and wiki. laugh thumbsup
Posted by: TenPin_

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/03/08 03:00 PM

First off, the standard disclaimers: I wasn't offended, I was a bit surprised, I've never really understood wearing the mics, and do wish all professional athletes projected themselves...um...professionally.

That said, I'm in the "double standard is the bigger issue" camp, and am surprised that the double standard was only barely touched upon by a couple others. Tiger was mentioned, as was some one punching a wall out of anger, but what about all the violence displayed by football players, hockey players, soccer players (um, the soccer fans!), etc? And many of those are seen on broadcast TV. Would you rather be exposed to strong emotional language, or some one with a broken nose spewing blood from a fist fight? Or maybe that is *exactly* what bowling needs...full contact drama! (ok, not really...I don't know what bowling really needs, if I ever figure it out, I will let everyone know).

I tend to watch football at work (tends to be the only thing on and I don't have control of the tv) and have lost track of the number of times I've seen a player / players shoving and getting physical with each other after a play is over. Same for hockey, fans can't get enough of the fights that often break out, and the networks aren't censoring those. And nobody has even mentioned the likes of the UFC which along with it's "reality" show gives the impression of short tempered always angry ready to fight to the death people.

I agree it is natural to express frustration or anger, and I agree that how it is expressed is a learned response. So is it better to be exposed to swearing under your breath (and sometimes a bit louder), or to go beat the [fill in the blank] out of somebody?

The best answer is probably "neither". But we all know that isn't going to happen.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/03/08 06:39 PM

Football and hockey are natural aggressive violent contact sports, so any fights to come of it are just a tad above the normal contact for the sport. You can't compare that to a non contact sport like bowling or golf. Basketball is slightly less violent since they try to reduce contact but it happens. Baseball is less even violent though and they do show the shouting matches and the brawls that breakout on tv at least briefly.
Posted by: Scott Gannon

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/03/08 07:24 PM

I understand both sides of this story. Certainly everyone reacts differently and some people are as has been said more colorful and use more colorful language. That being said I think when you are a professional and on a professional telecast you should be held to a standard that is different from the everyday Joe in a league.

Me personally I do not cuss when bowling. I have become very good at keeping my negative emotions under control and try not to react too much when a throw a bad shot.
Posted by: 180fury

Re: More swearing on ESPN... - 12/04/08 04:42 AM

hockey rules ! hunstville havoc is my team to watch but i watch it on tv a lot. thats my sport to watch. and ufc. i work with a guy that fights. and i can tell you that you don't tell him that his sport stinks. he takes it really serious. scott's a big guy and knows his way around a ring thats for sure.
sorry i seem to love violent sports. being in the south it seems to be a rule here. but bowling isn't violent unless you make it that way. i can only imagine it but can't see it. pros shouldn't be held to no standard. they make money to do things we do for free. makes no sense. i pay they play ??? why? but thats a whole different topic there. they should just be there selfs. thats what i would want to be if i was a pro. i'm a pro at video games about it. laugh