You think Pete likes Stone?

Posted by: GunsTariq

You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 01:01 PM

I absolutely loved it when Pete did that!

Pete set the bar to get after Stone for 4-baggers now!!

Commentatings getting better though!

Tough start for my boy Billy, but I like his finish!
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 01:07 PM

I'd say Pete has a few issues with Stone, primarily the whole hambone thing.

I think Billy was still having some issues from practice that Randy mentioned. He finally started making good shots and had he carried those 7s in the eight and ninth the game might have went the other way.
Posted by: johnw1

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 01:22 PM

Rob Stone is really getting on my nerves with the hambone.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 01:32 PM

There is a good number of players who don't like Stone/The Hambone. But, it is getting a lot of attention and drawing fans.

My wife sat and watched the telecast with me a little bit today. She said that even she was annoyed with Stone. I was more annoyed today with the Denny's commercials. "Well that isn't a real breakfast." How many times can they run the same commercial?
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 02:26 PM

Denny's seems like they only have 2 commercials. This one and the other where WRW drops the food off his fork. Frankly, I think this one sends a better message.

I think I'll pay McDonald's in Monopoly money for there "not real" breakfast, and see how far that gets me. If that trend starts, you can see how far bowling viewership has come.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 02:38 PM

Personally I would rather have a sausage and cheese McMuffin or a bacon egg and cheese biscuit than anything on Denny's menu.

They are coming out with ham bone tee shirts so I would say that it is going to be around for a while whether you like it or not. That is the ESPN way, come up with a good catch phrase and you will move up in the rankings.
Posted by: Smooth23

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 02:39 PM

Yeah, the hambone is really annoying me. I like how the other commentator kept correcting stone today. I have to wonder though, do they hand out the retarded hambone signs for people to hold onto now? Is this turning into wrestling where they hand out signs at the door?
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 10:22 PM

I think Pete Weber has issues with the hambone thing after seeing his remarks topped off with a crotch chop...very ammusing.

But like it or not the hambone thing really has life...its growing by the week. I wonder how many of those signs were legit, and how many were planted by ESPN, or the PBA.
Regardless.....The Hambone Lives..and getting bigger by the week.
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 10:22 PM

I think Pete Weber has issues with the hambone thing after seeing his remarks topped off with a crotch chop...very ammusing.

But like it or not the hambone thing really has life...its growing by the week. I wonder how many of those signs were legit, and how many were planted by ESPN, or the PBA.
Regardless.....The Hambone Lives..and getting bigger by the week.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/17/08 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Eraser
Regardless.....The Hambone Lives..and getting bigger by the week.

Yet another sign that the Apocalypse is upon us. Bad enough bowling has the stigma of fat, sweaty guys in a large, smoke-filled room drinking pitchers of beer, belching and showing off their "wife-beaters", now we need some idiot to tie something as ridiculous as "hambone" to our sport. Lovely. What's next? Is Chris Berman going to come on and say, "Tommy 'Don't Call me Davy' Jones throws a strike as Sean 'Road' Rash is defeated." Actually, that would be better than that freakin' "hambone" saying.
Posted by: SoCal Jeff

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 09:33 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What Brian Said!

Plus,

I loved it, Pete has the guts to express what many of the bowlers on tour are feeling!
Posted by: sixbagger

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 11:48 AM

The only think I DONT like about hambone and stone is that he gets all giddy and starts talking about it BEFORE the shot is made. Obvious he hasnt got a background in sports , because if he did he would know not to jinx all these bowlers. It seems 90%+ of the time that he starts jawjacking they miss it.

Weber has done that crotch shot for a long time, dont think it had anything to do with "hambone."

Ate at Dennys for the first time in years the other night, its actually a lot better than I thought it would be.
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 12:20 PM

Its really sad. Just goes to show you, that if the media, or someone in the media tells you something over and over and over, the sheep will follow and it becomes popular. They tell you what to wear, what music to listen to, what to drive, who to vote for etc. Not many really think for themselves anymore.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: sixbagger
The only think I DONT like about hambone and stone is that he gets all giddy and starts talking about it BEFORE the shot is made. Obvious he hasnt got a background in sports , because if he did he would know not to jinx all these bowlers. It seems 90%+ of the time that he starts jawjacking they miss it.


So someone with a background in sports would think that a "jinx" was something more than a hokey superstition?
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 01:15 PM

And I'm still laughing at how worked up people get over this. Really, I actually enjoy opening these threads to get a good laugh at it.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Brain Longo
Bad enough bowling has the stigma of fat, sweaty guys in a large, smoke-filled room drinking pitchers of beer, belching and showing off their "wife-beaters", now we need some idiot to tie something as ridiculous as "hambone" to our sport.

"turkey" isn't just as ridiculous? Doesn't matter if it has history or not. To a person who looks at bowling as a bunch of fat sweaty guys in a ..., "turkey" is the same as "hambone".

Originally Posted By: sixbagger
The only think I DONT like about hambone and stone is that he gets all giddy and starts talking about it BEFORE the shot is made. Obvious he hasnt got a background in sports , because if he did he would know not to jinx all these bowlers. It seems 90%+ of the time that he starts jawjacking they miss it.

Oh come on, a jinx? Really, that's why you don't like it?

Originally Posted By: sixbagger
Weber has done that crotch shot for a long time, dont think it had anything to do with "hambone."

During the crotch shot, he looked at the booth and said "Here's your hambone," or words to that effect. I think it did have something to do with "hambone"
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 02:18 PM

'Hambone' is only a word. The problem I have with it is who came up with it. If he is off the show next year, hambone dies. If he returns, we will hear it again.
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 08:11 PM

I agree with cgeorg, that crotch chop had EVERYTHING to do with the hambone reference. Weber basically said "I got your hambone right here".
Sorry but I believe Stone will be back. He has brought alot of attention to the sport ,..good or bad,..and I'm sure ESPN loves it.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/18/08 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
"turkey" isn't just as ridiculous? Doesn't matter if it has history or not. To a person who looks at bowling as a bunch of fat sweaty guys in a ..., "turkey" is the same as "hambone".

Whether the phrase "turkey" is ridiculous or not is open to interpretation, and apparently your interpretation is pretty contradictory to the majority of bowlers, so I'll take what you have to say on that matter with a grain of salt. In my eyes, it has a historical reference; just as a 5-7-10 is called a "Sour Apple" (why, I don't know, but it is and always has been as long as I've been bowling) and a "Dutch 200" is what it is (why it's called that, I don't know as well - perhaps someone from Denmark threw it first and the name stuck). "Hambone" has no historical reference, just some stupid blabbermouth who decided to think of something "cute" to come after "turkey". As I mentioned in another thread, had it been someone with some ties to the sport that came up with it, I probably wouldn't mind, but I don't care too much for some idiot who probably thought bowling wasn't a "legitimate sport" before he was sent to work the telecasts coining a new phrase.

And I never particularly cared for what "outsiders" thought of bowling or the "stigma" it carried. My way of thinking has always been, "You either like it or you don't. Either way, I don't give a rat's patootie what you think so keep your bodily fluids out of my Cheerios and you go find something else to do." I went through a bunch of bull in high school with bowling with people as high up as the athletic director calling for bowling to be cut from the budget because "it wasn't a legitimate sport" despite the fact that it was the sport that brought home the most championships in the history of the school and it was the most proud sport in the school. Yeah, I have some deep feelings about people messing around with the sport I love, and I don't particularly care for "outsiders" trying to either tarnish or badmouth it. At least we don't have to worry about steroids.

Originally Posted By: Lefty
And I'm still laughing at how worked up people get over this. Really, I actually enjoy opening these threads to get a good laugh at it.

To me, it's all about respect. I believe it's disrespectful to "add color" to something that didn't require color. It would be no different, in my eyes, as me walking into another industry that I knew nothing of and creating a whole new set of jargon and trying to get everyone to use it or to like it. It's just not kosher. If the "man" (and I use that term loosely) had a modicum of respect for bowling, he would've at least run it by a few people "in the know" instead of blurting it out and thinking he's all cool because he coined a new phrase. It...just...ain't...cool.

If you wish to let it roll of your back, so be it. That's your choice entirely and I respect that. I choose not to just "let it be", and I won't be shy about voicing my displeasure. I see nothing gained by "adding another item to the menu", so to speak, other than to "spice up" something that had enough flavor to begin with. Now, his "ten pin party in the pit" is cool, and actually pretty creative, since it doesn't lend itself to "naming a series of strikes". He can use that all day and it wouldn't bother me. "Hambone", though, just strikes a nerve.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 08:46 AM

Disregarding my own personal opinions about Stone, he is learning more about the game week to week and does have an excitement about it that you can't really find in a lot of broadcasters nowadays.

As for the hambone thing, I won't use it but if someone else wants to then that's their choice. The phrase does seem to be drawing in more fans which is good, but I hope those fans take the time to learn more about the game than just what they see on TV.

"Dutch 200" has its roots in "going Dutch" when you go out to eat or something. You split the bill down the middle 50/50, and a Dutch 200 is a 50/50 split of strike in one frame, spare in the next, strike, spare, strike, spare, etc.

Gone are the days when people learn about something or watch something because they're interested in it. Nowadays its all about whats "cool," and unfortunately bowling isn't "cool" because its not "sung" about in hip-hop songs or played in highlights on Sportscenter. But then again, the only things that are are football (which they put on a pedastal) and baseball (which they're dragging through the mud) and basketball (which is the only sport they actually cover the right way).
Posted by: GunsTariq

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 09:02 AM

I'll be honest and say I like "Hello Pocket!"
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 09:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Timotheus
Disregarding my own personal opinions about Stone, he is learning more about the game week to week and does have an excitement about it that you can't really find in a lot of broadcasters nowadays.

How much of that excitement is real and not just and act, I don't know. I'm cynical about him because of the somewhat "mocking" and childish tone he has.

Originally Posted By: Timotheus
As for the hambone thing, I won't use it but if someone else wants to then that's their choice. The phrase does seem to be drawing in more fans which is good, but I hope those fans take the time to learn more about the game than just what they see on TV.

One word to sum up that last part of your statement there; "sheeple" . Sadly, that encompasses a large amount of people sucking up air in the world. However, that aside, more fans are good. You'll never hear me argue against that point, but hopefully not at the expense of "dumbing down the sport." If you remember, 10 years ago Fox tried little gimmicks to get new fans to hockey when they were broadcasting the games, like with that stupid "FoxTrax" glowing hockey puck. People who understood the sport (like me) hated the concept, and the players hated it as well, but laypeople who were new liked it. I wonder how many of those "new fans" Fox attracted are still fans of the game?

Originally Posted By: Timotheus
"Dutch 200" has its roots in "going Dutch" when you go out to eat or something. You split the bill down the middle 50/50, and a Dutch 200 is a 50/50 split of strike in one frame, spare in the next, strike, spare, strike, spare, etc.

Ah, yeah, didn't think about it that way. Of course, I didn't have too clear a head when I was writing that last night. I'll blame it on the medication. wink

Originally Posted By: Timotheus
Gone are the days when people learn about something or watch something because they're interested in it. Nowadays its all about whats "cool," and unfortunately bowling isn't "cool" because its not "sung" about in hip-hop songs or played in highlights on Sportscenter. But then again, the only things that are are football (which they put on a pedastal) and baseball (which they're dragging through the mud) and basketball (which is the only sport they actually cover the right way).

Well, as long as I've been alive, most people have never thought of bowling as "cool" or something that requires skill. Sure, any fat, beer-guzzling, grizzly bear looking guy in a wife-beater can chuck a ball down the lane and knock pins down, just like any fat, beer-guzzling, grizzly bear looking guy in shoulder pads can "get in the way" of a defensive lineman, but to be good, you have to work at it and skill doesn't grow on trees or explode out of a television. I can make a dazzling catch in my backyard. I can hit a 75 MPH lob 400 feet, and I can dunk a basketball on a 9 1/2' rim, but I sure won't claim it's easy after that and can't play the game at the same level professionals do. But then again, I'm not one of the "sheeple". I understand how difficult it is to be good at those sports and know I don't have those skills to compete with professionals. And if I don't understand something, I research it.

On a similar note, one of my favorite shows is "Pros vs. Joes" on SpikeTV. You get to see a bunch of "wannabes" and "I coulda been a pro in..." compete against former pros. It's so amusing to watch some idiot run his mouth only to get schooled by a former professional. Some of the pros "sandbag" (you can see it), but others will not allow some moron to show them up. And I think it's hilarious to see a "Joe" go on like he just made the best play in sports after he barely beat a Pro once...out of like 10 tries. Amazing. Yeah, I probably could've played pro baseball, but I didn't and I probably wouldn't have made it to the majors. I probably could've played college football, but I didn't, and most likely wouldn't have been drafted, either. Again, though, I appreciate the level of skill those guys have and the dedication it takes to get to that level.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 09:38 AM

Golf was the same way...until Tiger came along. I always get into fights with my brother and dad about whether or not bowling is a sport. They always take the big fat guys and say "that just shows you that bowling isn't a sport" (though my dad does it more as a joke, my brother is more of a football hothead), but in reality bowling is as much a sport as football or baseball or basketball, and is in fact much older, but unlike those you don't necessarily have to be an "athlete" to do fairly well. However, the more athletic you are and the better shape you're in the better your potential upside is.

I haven't watched the Pros v. Joes show, but I've seen commercials and such for it. It looks like a good show, and it definitely gives you a clear view of the difference between a wannabe and a superstar.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 09:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Whether the phrase "turkey" is ridiculous or not is open to interpretation, and apparently your interpretation is pretty contradictory to the majority of bowlers, so I'll take what you have to say on that matter with a grain of salt.

How is it not ridiculous? What makes sense about calling 3 consecutive strikes a turkey?

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
In my eyes, it has a historical reference; just as a 5-7-10 is called a "Sour Apple" (why, I don't know, but it is and always has been as long as I've been bowling) and a "Dutch 200" is what it is (why it's called that, I don't know as well - perhaps someone from Denmark threw it first and the name stuck). "Hambone" has no historical reference, just some stupid blabbermouth who decided to think of something "cute" to come after "turkey".

You say that 2 bowling terms you accept have no historical reference, and then bash hambone for having no historical reference.

I'm just going to put these 2 next to each other:
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Bad enough bowling has the stigma of fat, sweaty guys in a large, smoke-filled room drinking pitchers of beer, belching and showing off their "wife-beaters", now we need some idiot to tie something as ridiculous as "hambone" to our sport.

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
And I never particularly cared for what "outsiders" thought of bowling or the "stigma" it carried. My way of thinking has always been, "You either like it or you don't. Either way, I don't give a rat's patootie what you think so keep your bodily fluids out of my Cheerios and you go find something else to do."


Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Now, his "ten pin party in the pit" is cool, and actually pretty creative, since it doesn't lend itself to "naming a series of strikes". He can use that all day and it wouldn't bother me.


What is the difference between naming a single strike and naming a series of strikes? A strike has plenty of terms, a 4 bagger had none (aside from the generic 4 bagger, which is applied to any number of strikes). Can he rename anything that already has a name, and it's ok? What if he called a turkey something different? "He just turned the big three oh, thirty pins in a row!"
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:04 AM

The term turkey actually originated from a Thanksgiving charity event back during the Depression. I forgot the exact details but either some bowling house or some charity organization held a bowling event and anyone that got three strikes in a row got a free turkey for Thanksgiving. That's how the term came into being and its stuck most likely due to its background.

"Dutch 200" does have historical significance, and its based on what I said in my previous post. I don't know where "Sour Apple" comes from for that leave, its not something I'd ever heard but maybe it just never came up.

There's not any real difference between naming a single strike v. a series of strikes. Anyone can make up any name they want for them, but bowling has a lot of purists (moreso than any other sport except probably baseball and golf) and if you try and force your terms on other people like many people feel Stone and ESPN/PBA are doing with hambone, you'll get a lot of ire directed your way. The big problem is that "hambone" is starting to work its way into the "official" bowling language and a lot of the most knowledgable bowling people are upset about that.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:08 AM

There is a lot to be said about the tradition of the game, and that tradition means something to a lot of bowlers. Fabricating names that have no meaning, by someone who, apparantly, knows little of this sport, makes a mockery of it. And, it shows the general feeling toward bowling as a second class sport.

Turkey - was a term given during the depression when bowling lanes would give away turkeys to people who rolled 3 strikes in a row. That has some meaning and tradition. It also shows how difficult it was in the old days to strike.

The terms Brooklyn and Jersey came from crossover strikes achieved by bowlers in NY as to whether thew were on the Brooklyn or Jersey side of the head pin.

These terms are part of the tradition of the sport, just like SouthPaw is to baseball. No one would ever come up with rightpaw in today's announcing. To baseball players and fans alike, it just makes NO sense, and shows the stupidity of an announcer, and his naivete.

Those who defend this position are doing the same.


Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:10 AM

Well after a quick bit of research, the term "sour apple" for a 5-7-10 is in the bowling glossary, so it has to have some historic significance, though I don't know where it originates.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:10 AM

Edit: somehow I double posted while only hitting the "Submit" button once confused
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:17 AM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
How is it not ridiculous? What makes sense about calling 3 consecutive strikes a turkey?

Again, historical reference. Care to read about it?

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
You say that 2 bowling terms you accept have no historical reference, and then bash hambone for having no historical reference.

Historic in that those terms have been around longer than you or I. Some things I do not question. But Timotheus had a perfectly reasonable explanation for a "Dutch 200", and I accept that.

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I'm just going to put these 2 next to each other:

*snip* I assume your point with those quotes was to show some sort of contradiction? Not so. I was merely pointing out what "the outsiders" thought of the sport and what I thought of the sport. I know what people think about it. I've heard it for eons. I really don't care what "John and Jane Doe" think about bowling, but that doesn't mean I don't shake my head in disagreement with it. Just because there are ignorant people in this world doesn't mean I have to sit quietly and allow them to continue to be ignorant without voicing my opinion. If people are allowed to throw negativity at bowling, then I'm just as entitled to say what I want to say.

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
What is the difference between naming a single strike and naming a series of strikes? A strike has plenty of terms, a 4 bagger had none (aside from the generic 4 bagger, which is applied to any number of strikes). Can he rename anything that already has a name, and it's ok? What if he called a turkey something different? "He just turned the big three oh, thirty pins in a row!"

Because he's not "naming a strike", that's why. It's a simple phrase, much like "swish strike", "messenger", "stone 10", "flat 10", "fast 8", etc. "Hambone" sounds like something he just pulled out of his hindside (and if he did in the literal sense, well, I won't even go there).

And what's wrong with a generic "4 bagger"? Again, adding color to something that doesn't need it. Does soccer (a sport he provides commentary on) have "cute little names" for 4 goals in a row? Does football have some nickname for 4 first downs in a row? Man, you can call anything whatever you like, but don't be surprised when certain purists, such as myself, disagree about it and call it idiotic.

From this point on, I'm happy to "agree to disagree".
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
There is a lot to be said about the tradition of the game, and that tradition means something to a lot of bowlers. Fabricating names that have no meaning, by someone who, apparantly, knows little of this sport, makes a mockery of it. And, it shows the general feeling toward bowling as a second class sport.

These terms are part of the tradition of the sport, just like SouthPaw is to baseball. No one would ever come up with rightpaw in today's announcing. To baseball players and fans alike, it just makes NO sense, and shows the stupidity of an announcer, and his naivete.

Those who defend this position are doing the same.

Thank you, Dennis, for saying what I was trying to get at.

Sports that do not receive a lot of attention because they're not "easily understood" or "hip or cool" have a higher majority of purists because it is those same purists who keep the sport alive. Hockey is thick with tradition, and those "die hard fans and purists" keep hockey alive regardless of whether the "layman" believes the game it "too violent" or "boorish". They welcome "outsiders", and if you're willing to learn about the game, they'll take you in like family. But if you start coining phrases that have no meaning to the game, you'll be met with the same ferocity of a lion who had its meal taken out of its mouth.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:26 AM

After coming back to this game from a 25 year respite, I find that it has changed drastically. And, not only in the technology of balls and lanes, but how it is respected, or more commonly, disrespected.

When My father would go to bowl, it was a serious endeavor. The Bowling shirt was hung and freshly pressed. His sponsor was proudly embroidered on the back of his shirt. His ball was waiting by the door. His shoes shined. And all 48 lanes of bowlers were doing the same.

When I returned, wearing a collared shirt was out of place. Concentrating on bowling was disturbed by others who couldn't care less about the people on the next lanes. The general public who were bowling were people who I would not associate with outside of the lanes. What has happened to our sport?

Gimics like Cosmic, beer and pizza bowl, and others have diminished the status of the sport to one where unsavory types thrive in the lanes. These people have no interest in this sport. They have no respect for those who do.

Bowling used to be a physically taxing sport, where bodily control was utmost important. Now, who cares? Speed is king. Two fingers is cool. Flip the ball as much as you can, and who cares who you disturb in doing it.

I can see that this unsavory type of patron has forced the real bowlers out of the lanes, and have given our sport a stigma of just what Brian said. Beer drinking, tank top, no mannered boors.

There are signs in store windows that people dressed like this cannot enter. Then why the Bowling alley? The proprietors have let this get out of hand. And, in some cases, have promoted this to happen for the sake of the almighty dollar.

I find it a shame, that I have to find another house to bowl in because the one that I returned to, now caters to this clientel. It is a mockery, and a slap in the face for this sport.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Whether the phrase "turkey" is ridiculous or not is open to interpretation, and apparently your interpretation is pretty contradictory to the majority of bowlers, so I'll take what you have to say on that matter with a grain of salt.


So you care that non-bowlers think bowlers are fat sweaty guys in white beaters but you don't care that non-bowlers will find "turkey" just as ridiculous as "hambone"? It doesn't matter it's historical reference. It sounds silly. Personally I don't care that it sounds silly. If someone pointed out that it sounded silly (like Stone did), I'd laugh and agree with them. I also don't care if someone came up with another phrase that sounded just as silly.

Quote:
"Hambone" has no historical reference, just some stupid blabbermouth who decided to think of something "cute" to come after "turkey". As I mentioned in another thread, had it been someone with some ties to the sport that came up with it, I probably wouldn't mind, but I don't care too much for some idiot who probably thought bowling wasn't a "legitimate sport" before he was sent to work the telecasts coining a new phrase.

And I never particularly cared for what "outsiders" thought of bowling or the "stigma" it carried.


If you want professional bowling to have a future, you should start caring, because without more viewership and support, there won't be a PBA tour anymore.

Quote:
To me, it's all about respect. I believe it's disrespectful to "add color" to something that didn't require color. It would be no different, in my eyes, as me walking into another industry that I knew nothing of and creating a whole new set of jargon and trying to get everyone to use it or to like it. It's just not kosher. If the "man" (and I use that term loosely) had a modicum of respect for bowling, he would've at least run it by a few people "in the know" instead of blurting it out and thinking he's all cool because he coined a new phrase. It...just...ain't...cool.

If you wish to let it roll of your back, so be it. That's your choice entirely and I respect that. I choose not to just "let it be", and I won't be shy about voicing my displeasure. I see nothing gained by "adding another item to the menu", so to speak, other than to "spice up" something that had enough flavor to begin with. Now, his "ten pin party in the pit" is cool, and actually pretty creative, since it doesn't lend itself to "naming a series of strikes". He can use that all day and it wouldn't bother me. "Hambone", though, just strikes a nerve.


Honestly you've got some issues to deal with here. Anyone outside of bowling is going to think that Turkey sounds silly. That has nothing do with the stigma bowling has. You're not going convince anyone it's not silly or make bowling look any better by getting upset over the fact that it really is a silly phrase. Stone represents the vast majority of people who "turkey" sound silly to. We can either accept this, laugh with them while they get introduced to the game or we can get mad and alienate even more potential viewers and fans.

Thou doth protest too much.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:39 AM

Quote:

*snip* I assume your point with those quotes was to show some sort of contradiction? Not so. I was merely pointing out what "the outsiders" thought of the sport and what I thought of the sport. I know what people think about it.


Yes, it was contradictory. If you didn't care, why would you say "bad enough". If you didn't care, you wouldn't think it was bad.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:49 AM

Fine, so when a new bowler asks me where turkey came from, I can tell him that the sport of bowling was trying to do its part to help people in the depression as well as keep their doors open. When a new bowler asks me where Hambone came from, I can tell them that some no nothing made it up as a TV comedic act. And, it means NOTHING.

I actually feel some sense of pride that there is History in our Sport. Those who don't care about our sport have no respect for it.
And why? Because to them, it is NOT a sport.

It's this recreational excuse for beer drinking that has taken over. Just count how many serious bowlers there are in the total number of patrons. Very few. And, while that number diminishes, so does our sport.

Some people drink a beer while they bowl. Many bowl while they drink.

I have to give a lot of credit to those Junior Coaches who have spent their weekend time to train the proper respect to this game. It is a shame that all too many others don't take that opportunity.

I belong to a tennis club, and the first thing they do is test your ability level. Based on their assessment, the player is relegated to certain time slots, and like level competition. They wouldn't think of mixing novices with accomplished players.

Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 10:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Gimics like Cosmic, beer and pizza bowl, and others have diminished the status of the sport to one where unsavory types thrive in the lanes. These people have no interest in this sport. They have no respect for those who do.

Bowling used to be a physically taxing sport, where bodily control was utmost important. Now, who cares? Speed is king. Two fingers is cool. Flip the ball as much as you can, and who cares who you disturb in doing it.

I can see that this unsavory type of patron has forced the real bowlers out of the lanes, and have given our sport a stigma of just what Brian said. Beer drinking, tank top, no mannered boors.

Excellent point, and I'll bring up a reference to your observation from last night.

Monday night is a scratch league. Now, not everyone is a 200+ average bowler, but it is still a competitive and serious league. I was bowling 3 pairs down from a group of 20-25 year olds who were open bowling, one of which is a league bowler at the center I bowl at.

Talk about boorish; the girl who was with the league bowler was somewhat tipsy before she walked in the door, but as the night wore on, she became louder and was yelling quite often and was obviously drunk. It got to the point where she was such a distraction that her antics caused the bowlers on the pair left of us (which started the league pairings) to have to stop in mid-approach on more than one occasion. Complaints were lodged at the counter. The manager (who also bowls on the scratch league) said something to the girl and her boyfriend. Apparently all this did was agitate her and cause her to become more belligerent.

Now, she wasn't vulgar, but she was antagonizing to the point that she yelled, "don't y'all hear me? Wooooooooooo!" on a few occasions. The fact that she was acting like a drunken idiot didn't bother me too much. I half-expected it because she had on house shoes and was using a house ball. But the fact that her boyfriend, a league bowler, wasn't trying to settle the situation was most disturbing. Had it been me, I'd have been very embarrassed and quite apologetic to the league bowlers nearby, and would have stopped bowling and taken her out of there. I'm sure, though, he will get a few dirty looks and probably get a few nasty comments the next time he bowls in his league.

But, yeah, it's the lack of respect that was displayed last night that irritates me. Now, I'm friends with the manager, and he dealt with it in a timely manner, but with revenues as they are, I'm sure he was torn between "the dollar" and the rest of the league. Make no mistake, the bowlers beside this loudmouth, even the open bowlers, had their fair share of complaints after the drunken loudmouth left, and the manager was distraught, but sadly, it's the dollar that is most vocal. I can empathize with his position. I've been there a few times. I planned on saying something to both the bowler and his girlfriend as I was leaving, but they took off rather quickly after they finished their game.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:03 AM

I bowl at 2 different houses. In the larger chain house, this activity would have been ignored, and more of this type eventually come in.

The other house which caters to bowlers, would have thrown her out, and anyone with her.

That is the difference.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Fine, so when a new bowler asks me where turkey came from, I can tell him that the sport of bowling was trying to do its part to help people in the depression as well as keep their doors open. When a new bowler asks me where Hambone came from, I can tell them that some no nothing made it up as a TV comedic act. And, it means NOTHING.


Oh. My. God. It means NOTHING! Call the police. Get the FBI involved. Someone made a funny and this is bowling after all. There's no laughing in bowling. There's no laughing in bowling! How can we possibly tell someone that someone else found "Turkey" just as funny as this new person and came up with another funny sounding name for 4 in a row? Inconceivable! Do you know WHY we can't tell them this? There's NO laughing in bowling!

It's a good thing we have other sports like baseball and football and basketball were we can laugh and come up with silly expressions.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:06 AM

Look at the music from the era of bowling you guys are trying to preserve. Look at how that music is doing now. Do you want the same to happen to the sport? Society has changed - if bowling wants to keep up with it, just as every other successful sport has, it must change as well. People will never become serious about bowling if they never want to go to the lanes because they have to press their bowling shirt to gain admittance. They will go bowling if they can go and have fun doing it. Some of them will catch the bug. Some will continue to use the time as a social experience, and nothing more. But they will keep the sport alive so that we can enjoy it.

I coached gymnastics for a little while. Class kids paid 4-5 times as much per hour as the competitive team kids, in addition to requiring less skilled staff. The gym could not run without the class kids. Sometimes, that means the team kids need to train at odd hours, or give up some time on the equipment for the class. But without the class, the team could not exist.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:08 AM

Over the past couple of years, I noticed that there were more Honor scores at particular houses in our Association. I took it upon myself to see why.

The answer is not an easier shot, wood over synthetic, or anything like that. The answer is that some houses cater to the interest of REAL bowlers, and that is where they go.

The houses that cater to the black light bowler, are slowly being left with just those. Better bowlers won't go to that house because of them.

There are only in a few houses that have REAL bowlers, and that's where the better scores are.
Posted by: sixbagger

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Lefty
So someone with a background in sports would think that a "jinx" was something more than a hokey superstition?


Of course they would, but when youre sitting on the bench and your pitcher is tossing a no-hitter you arent jaw-[censored] about it. As a viewer I would rather him keep his piehole shut until after the shot is made.
Posted by: Smooth23

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:16 AM

I agree with Dennis. The good houses do cater to real bowlers. Where I bowl, if you're a serious bowler and want good practice you can come in and they try to give you a pair of lanes with good oil on them, away from the kiddies. Also, though rock n bowl is a huge revenue builder for this house, they don't start till midnight, and always keep open bowlers off lanes next to league bowling.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:18 AM

I bet the scores at Augusta are better than the scores at the local $20 course. Does that say something bad about the local course? It's still getting people out there, allowing the sport to grow.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Lefty
So you care that non-bowlers think bowlers are fat sweaty guys in white beaters but you don't care that non-bowlers will find "turkey" just as ridiculous as "hambone"? It doesn't matter it's historical reference. It sounds silly. Personally I don't care that it sounds silly. If someone pointed out that it sounded silly (like Stone did), I'd laugh and agree with them. I also don't care if someone came up with another phrase that sounded just as silly.

Hey, "Southpaw" sounds silly, but it is what it is. Once I found out why a left-handed pitcher was named that, it made sense. Same with bowling. "Messenger" sounds silly, but there's nothing wrong with it. Hambone, coming from someone not associated with the sport, is not silly - it's stupid. I'm steadfast on that and you won't convince me otherwise. Call me "ignorant" on that if you wish, but I prefer to not be sacrilegious when it comes to the history of bowling. I have the same zeal for the history of other sports as well; baseball, football, basketball, etc.

Originally Posted By: Lefty
If you want professional bowling to have a future, you should start caring, because without more viewership and support, there won't be a PBA tour anymore.

There almost wasn't a future too long ago because of a lack of interest. Seems that the fact that bowling has nearly priced out families and the shots most places put out are a joke darn near killed any sort of "esteem" for the sport. Plus, as Dennis mentioned, these "gimmicks" that have come out have somewhat diminished the respect for the sport. Sure, there are quite a few "cosmic bowlers" who have converted to "league bowlers", and some are quite serious about the game, but overall, bowling still, to most people, is pure "recreation", much like "mini-golf".

Originally Posted By: Lefty
Honestly you've got some issues to deal with here. Anyone outside of bowling is going to think that Turkey sounds silly. That has nothing do with the stigma bowling has. You're not going convince anyone it's not silly or make bowling look any better by getting upset over the fact that it really is a silly phrase. Stone represents the vast majority of people who "turkey" sound silly to. We can either accept this, laugh with them while they get introduced to the game or we can get mad and alienate even more potential viewers and fans.

Yeah, I have issues. Maybe I need to see a therapist or something. Forgive me if I do not find the bastardization of bowling to be something to take lightly.

Originally Posted By: Lefty
Yes, it was contradictory. If you didn't care, why would you say "bad enough". If you didn't care, you wouldn't think it was bad.

Ok, so I do care. I care very much, in fact. I care about the history of the sport. I care about the future of the sport. I care so much that I was and am willing to spend my free time teaching people how to bowl and the history of the sport and trying to get them to care about it as much as I do. And yes, I'm a walking contradiction. There comes a certain time, though, when effort spent on "trying to educate the ignorant" becomes fruitless. Like you, I guess to a degree, I just throw my hands up and say "whatever", but I try to do my part and not let ignorance gather any more steam than it already has.

Originally Posted By: Lefty
Thou doth protest too much.

Thou doth not protest enough. If you want to sit there idly and allow someone to mock the sport, fine. If you want to sit there and say "turkey" sounds silly, fine. That's your choice. Does that make you any less of a person in my eyes? No. Does that make you any less of a fan or passionate of the sport? No. I still respect your opinion and respect you as a person.

However you want to approach the matter is how you'll approach it, just as I will approach it as I will. If I come off as a zealot, so be it. Yes, it strikes a nerve, and yes, I'll be reactionary about it.

At least we agree on one thing, and that is we want a brighter future for our sport. I, along with many others, just aren't happy with a new term that bears no meaning other than, in my eyes, being a mockery of something that's equally or more "silly" than turkey.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:21 AM

There just are some things you DON'T do.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:30 AM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I bet the scores at Augusta are better than the scores at the local $20 course. Does that say something bad about the local course? It's still getting people out there, allowing the sport to grow.


That is exactly my point. They are not allowed at Augusta.

Posted by: Scott Gannon

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:30 AM

The only thing I have to weigh in on this is that Rob Stone is so full of himself and it is very annoying. It would be one thing if he just mentioned said after the fact that someone got a Hambone but he goes on and on before and after and even about Rhino Page having Hambone momentum going into next week.

I agree this is probably being propped up by ESPN. Any football fans who have ever tried to suffer through their Monday Night Football (formerly Sunday Night Football) will realize they have a knack for hiring obnoxious and overbearing announcers who have you reaching for the mute button.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:31 AM

Too many lanes are co-mingling sport bowlers with recreational bowlers to the distain of Sport bowlers.
Posted by: Odyssey912

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Monday night is a scratch league. Now, not everyone is a 200+ average bowler, but it is still a competitive and serious league. I was bowling 3 pairs down from a group of 20-25 year olds who were open bowling, one of which is a league bowler at the center I bowl at.

Talk about boorish; the girl who was with the league bowler was somewhat tipsy before she walked in the door, but as the night wore on, she became louder and was yelling quite often and was obviously drunk. It got to the point where she was such a distraction that her antics caused the bowlers on the pair left of us (which started the league pairings) to have to stop in mid-approach on more than one occasion. Complaints were lodged at the counter. The manager (who also bowls on the scratch league) said something to the girl and her boyfriend. Apparently all this did was agitate her and cause her to become more belligerent.

Now, she wasn't vulgar, but she was antagonizing to the point that she yelled, "don't y'all hear me? Wooooooooooo!" on a few occasions. The fact that she was acting like a drunken idiot didn't bother me too much. I half-expected it because she had on house shoes and was using a house ball. But the fact that her boyfriend, a league bowler, wasn't trying to settle the situation was most disturbing. Had it been me, I'd have been very embarrassed and quite apologetic to the league bowlers nearby, and would have stopped bowling and taken her out of there. I'm sure, though, he will get a few dirty looks and probably get a few nasty comments the next time he bowls in his league.

But, yeah, it's the lack of respect that was displayed last night that irritates me. Now, I'm friends with the manager, and he dealt with it in a timely manner, but with revenues as they are, I'm sure he was torn between "the dollar" and the rest of the league. Make no mistake, the bowlers beside this loudmouth, even the open bowlers, had their fair share of complaints after the drunken loudmouth left, and the manager was distraught, but sadly, it's the dollar that is most vocal. I can empathize with his position. I've been there a few times. I planned on saying something to both the bowler and his girlfriend as I was leaving, but they took off rather quickly after they finished their game.


I took my 4 year old (almost 5 year old) bowling a little while ago on a Sunday afternoon. As luck would have it it was a really slow afternoon so they were only running half the lanes and there was an afternoon league there.

Being that I had a 4 year old with me I asked to be placed as far away from the league as possible. They did their best (I think we were maybe 6 lanes away from the 1st set of league bowlers).

I have to tell you, and I am not just saying this because I am her mother, I honestly can't think of 1 thing that anyone could have complained about regarding my kid. She waited her turn (we obviously helped her with this as she was excited to be bowling), she celebrated only as loudly as everybody else, sat down and waited after she was done, etc.

Being a league bowler myself, I would have been so embarassed if something would have been said about my kid. But, then again, it would not have gotten that far. Anytime my kid acts out in public we leave the scene immediately. But that's just me.

I know this situation is a different than the boyfriend/girlfriend reference - but it shows the difference (I think). Even on days where I have had too much to drink, I didn't act like this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hambone??? I hate it - LOL!!!!

Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:43 AM

Here, Here... to Melissa.

Need more mothers like you.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:47 AM

Quote:

Yeah, I have issues. Maybe I need to see a therapist or something. Forgive me if I do not find the bastardization of bowling to be something to take lightly.


Quote:

Thou doth not protest enough. If you want to sit there idly and allow someone to mock the sport, fine.


Lol.. that's just the thing, he's NOT mocking the sport. He's having fun with it! And the fact that some people don't realize this makes them look like their butt cheeks are do tight that they couldn't pass a toothpick. Really, it comes across even more silly/stupid than turkey, hambone or both combined.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:50 AM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I bet the scores at Augusta are better than the scores at the local $20 course. Does that say something bad about the local course? It's still getting people out there, allowing the sport to grow.

In the event that I haven't been clear (or apparently, I've been too wordy), let me repeat myself: I've nothing against any measure that gets people to appreciate and enjoy a new sport if said effort does not include mocking something else in an effort to grow the sport. Growth is necessary. Change is necessary. I agree with that 100%.

Nobody can tell me professional bowling hasn't changed in the past 15 years. Bowlers are now allowed "to be human" and show emotion. They can wear non-collared shirts as long as they're not t-shirts. It's quite ok when a bowler is in a groove and comes back to give high-fives to the people in attendance. It's also apparently not frowned upon when a bowler starts "talkin' smack" to another bowler when coming off the approach. Personally, I don't approve of this nor would I do this myself, but I'm not making the rules in the PBA, either.

Golf has boomed mainly because of Tiger. He's dominant. He's a very skilled player who rarely loses when he's in the lead. He's also very different than the previous "big names" because he's not white. That in itself has been, in my opinion, one of the main reasons why golf has increased in popularity recently, if not THE main reason. With someone like Tiger, it is perceived that "the old, white, stodgy folk" no longer have a stranglehold on the sport, and that golf is apparently a sport that anyone can enjoy. Now, Tiger didn't bastardize the sport, and he's certainly no gimmick, either. He simply played it to a level never seen before, and because he's not white, well, that's all the better. Had he been a "cookie-cut mould" that golf has had for over a century, I don't think it would be experiencing the growth it has.

But, and this is the crux of my argument, you don't hear announcers or other "laypeople" naming scores. A "double bogey" is a "double bogey", not a "turkey", not a "hambone", not a "s--t on a shingle". It's a "double bogey", and anyone not associated with the sport who tried to coin a new phrase would probably be ushered out of the announcer's booth hastily. People announcing golf who are not otherwise accomplished golfers dare not mock the sport because they respect the people who play it and respect its rich history. In my humble opinion, I do not think that's too much to ask from anyone.

Bowling has certain inherent challenges that golf doesn't have, mainly because it's an "inside sport", for one, and two, the "stigma of the bowler" (which, admittedly, I have contradicted myself on). The fact that, in bowling, there's "very few ways to make a play" doesn't lend itself to be something that's deemed "exciting" - certainly not like golf where there's over a million different shots you can play to get to get the ball into cup each round you play.

Again, I don't have problems with trying creative ways to get new bowlers. We need new bowlers, but we also need people willing to teach bowlers not only the fundamentals of the game, but the history and the "integrity" of the game. Otherwise, eventually, the sport will decline even more than it has and, if that happens, the PBA will cease to exist. But for the love of God, don't mock the sport or the terminology just to get bowlers (i.e., "sell out").
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:51 AM

We can complain, moan and groan all we want on a message board. Unless enough people complain to the right people (the PBA and ESPN), then nothing is going to change.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:53 AM

I have a piece of paper signed by a psychiatrist that says I'm OK. And, I take offense to Randy's mockery.

Hambone, as spoken by a Bonehead.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Lefty
Lol.. that's just the thing, he's NOT mocking the sport. He's having fun with it! And the fact that some people don't realize this makes them look like their butt cheeks are do tight that they couldn't pass a toothpick. Really, it comes across even more silly/stupid than turkey, hambone or both combined.

I don't see it as "having fun with it" as you mention, but again, that is my interpretation. Sorry if I don't see it your way, Lefty, and sorry if I seem as I can't be convinced otherwise.

Some people think the show "J a c k a s s" is funny, but I don't. I think it's stupid. I put Rob Stone up there with that show because, in my eyes, he is one.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: General Pounder
We can complain, moan and groan all we want on a message board. Unless enough people complain to the right people (the PBA and ESPN), then nothing is going to change.

Provide me with a link, GP, and I'll happy to file my grievances.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:03 PM

Randy's not a sellout...its hard to be a sellout to something you don't have any real history with!

As it is, if Randy attracts new viewers and fans then bowling will grow, more revenue will be put into the sport, those fans will have more desire to go out and work at being able to bowl like their favorite pros, houses will work to attract more serious bowlers, ettiquette will be taught more, and overall the quality of the sport will improve. Of course this means that those of us that have been bowling seriously for years will have to put up with a greater inflow of recreational bowlers as well. Its a vicious circle that is unavoidable, yet imperative to the growth.

Really the biggest thing that will affect the way the house is set up and who it caters to is who the people that run it are. If they're just business people looking to make money, you'll see a lot of stuff for cosmic bowling and other recreational type attractions. If they're league or ex-league bowlers that take their own game seriously, you'll see more of a lean towards the serious bowler.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: General Pounder
We can complain, moan and groan all we want on a message board. Unless enough people complain to the right people (the PBA and ESPN), then nothing is going to change.


Oh, it is on the PBA message board. See for yourself.

http://forum.pba.com/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/26/t/008978.html
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
I don't see it as "having fun with it" as you mention, but again, that is my interpretation. Sorry if I don't see it your way, Lefty, and sorry if I seem as I can't be convinced otherwise.

Some people think the show "J a c k a s s" is funny, but I don't. I think it's stupid. I put Rob Stone up there with that show because, in my eyes, he is one.


Like I said, I really do get a laugh out of this anit-hambone movement so it's fine that you don't see it my way.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:16 PM

First off, I just want to note that my comment about Augusta was aimed at Dennis's post about most honor scores being at the serious-bowler house.

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I bet the scores at Augusta are better than the scores at the local $20 course. Does that say something bad about the local course? It's still getting people out there, allowing the sport to grow.


<snip>

But, and this is the crux of my argument, you don't hear announcers or other "laypeople" naming scores. A "double bogey" is a "double bogey", not a "turkey", not a "hambone", not a "s--t on a shingle". It's a "double bogey", and anyone not associated with the sport who tried to coin a new phrase would probably be ushered out of the announcer's booth hastily.


I have golfed since I was 3, very seriously for a while, and if someone wanted to give 6 over a par a name, I wouldn't care. I suppose on a par 4 I you could call it moose ears, but that's about it. Come on Johnny, what can you come up with?

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Bowling has certain inherent challenges that golf doesn't have, mainly because it's an "inside sport", for one, and two, the "stigma of the bowler" (which, admittedly, I have contradicted myself on).


Ask yourself, why is it an inside sport? I think the attitudes in most of the posts in this thread contain the answer.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Timotheus
Randy's not a sellout...its hard to be a sellout to something you don't have any real history with!


Randy, as in Randy Pederson? The 13 time PBA titlist and 24th millionare in PBA history?
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:22 PM

I'm talking a direct link to either the PBA and/or ESPN, Dennis.
Posted by: Scott Gannon

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:28 PM

Lefty, I think some people are confusing Randy with Rob Stone.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
First off, I just want to note that my comment about Augusta was aimed at Dennis's post about most honor scores being at the serious-bowler house.

I know who it was intended for. Won't stop me from adding my two cents on the subject. And I agree with him, too.

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I have golfed since I was 3, very seriously for a while, and if someone wanted to give 6 over a par a name, I wouldn't care. I suppose on a par 4 I you could call it moose ears, but that's about it. Come on Johnny, what can you come up with?

If you don't mind someone with no ties to a sport coming up with a new name for a score, then that's your business. As long as you can sleep at night and look yourself in the mirror in the morning, then I cannot question your motives, nor will I question your integrity, either. Again, it doesn't sit well with me. Pardon me if that bothers you.

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Ask yourself, why is it an inside sport? I think the attitudes in most of the posts in this thread contain the answer.

Ask yourself why it's not an outside sport? Or better yet, let me ask you, ok? Can you bowl in the rain? No. Can you bowl when it's snowing? No. Can you bowl in sleet? No. Certainly, you can put a lane under a canopy and bowl, but you better make sure the surface and all equipment is adequately protected. Perhaps this could be considered "outside". Your logic, on this point, is flawed.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Provide me with a link, GP, and I'll happy to file my grievances.


This took me 2 minutes to find.

publicrelations @ pba.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?page=contact/espntv
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:39 PM

Yeah, Rob. Sorry I was leaving for lunch and writing in a hurry. Don't kill me!
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:41 PM

Thanks, GP.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Ask yourself, why is it an inside sport? I think the attitudes in most of the posts in this thread contain the answer.

Ask yourself why it's not an outside sport? Or better yet, let me ask you, ok? Can you bowl in the rain? No. Can you bowl when it's snowing? No. Can you bowl in sleet? No. Certainly, you can put a lane under a canopy and bowl, but you better make sure the surface and all equipment is adequately protected. Perhaps this could be considered "outside". Your logic, on this point, is flawed.


Woops, looks like there was a misunderstanding there!
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:44 PM

Forgive me. I thought you were referring to the attitudes of insiders making the sport look very unwelcome to those on the outside. I didn't know you were referring to indoor vs. outdoor.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 12:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Gannon
Lefty, I think some people are confusing Randy with Rob Stone.


It's an R word. My bad. You know which we mean.
Posted by: Scott Gannon

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:02 PM

Has anyone heard the phrase "Hambone" referred to in their leagues wne someone gets a four bagger?

I am kind of curious to know. I have never heard it yet.
Posted by: Lance

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Gannon
Has anyone heard the phrase "Hambone" referred to in their leagues wne someone gets a four bagger?

I am kind of curious to know. I have never heard it yet.


I joke about it in my league. Simply b/c I do not like it.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:07 PM

I was talking to my buddy on my old team and he said that his dad was saying it. He also heard a few other people in the league say it. That is a mixed league that is non-competitive.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:10 PM

I have, and it was met with sarcasm.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:16 PM

A guy on my Tuesday team says it, but he does it mainly in a joking manner. He's also very new to the game as of this year so he didn't grow with the history, but he's trying very hard to learn the game and get better.

As for my Wednesday league, I haven't heard anyone say it yet. Though in that league most of the guys are much older (I'm the youngest guy in the league by about 5 years) and most have been around the game for a very long time.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Gannon
Has anyone heard the phrase "Hambone" referred to in their leagues wne someone gets a four bagger?

I am kind of curious to know. I have never heard it yet.


I have.. people had fun with it. And it was in a sport league at that. I know, we're all going to bowling hell.
Posted by: Odyssey912

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:24 PM

Nope - never heard anyone use it.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:28 PM

The other thing that no one here has seems to either admit or acknowledge is that Stone makes fun of himself and the Hambone.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Forgive me. I thought you were referring to the attitudes of insiders making the sport look very unwelcome to those on the outside. I didn't know you were referring to indoor vs. outdoor.

I guess there was a break in the lines of communication there. My apologies.

But as far as being an insider sport, well, I feel that most people who aren't "in the know" have a hard time understanding it because there's so much skill involved. Sure, knocking down 10 pins at the end of 60' worth of wood (or synthetic material) doesn't look tough, but as well all know it is. Doing it consistently is daunting at the very least and it takes a lot of effort and time to be good at it.

I'm not saying that any sport is easy, because they're not, but because bowling is deemed more "recreational" and not "serious", well, it's tough to get even the casual bowler to understand the full dearth of this sport. Golf, for most people, is recreational, and outsiders who think that "it's so darn easy to hit that little white ball straight" find out it's not the case once they tee up that "little white ball" and try swinging without missing. A lot of mechanics make up a golf swing (as you know), just as a lot of mechanics make up a bowling approach. Golf, up until recently, was somewhat of an "insider sport", but the proliferation of Tiger has made more people appreciate just how difficult it is to play the game at even a bogey level.

But, there too, bowling isn't promoted like baseball, football, basketball, etc. because it's not really seen as "physical". My high school bowling coach promoted bowling better than anyone I know, yet he was not a bowler himself. He respected the sport, understood it's intricacies, and revered those who could "make the pins dance" as he put it. He was the best PR person you could ever want, and he didn't try to "dumb down" the sport. He learned everything he could learn, asked the better bowlers what they knew, and talked to the proprietors. He pitched his "sale" to the board every year to make sure we had a sport that we could enjoy and get a letter for.

Honestly, bowling, like any sport, has it's own "fraternity", and as long as you respect the game you're always welcome into the fraternity. I don't exclude "outsiders", I welcome them. Anyone willing to learn the sport I try to educate, otherwise I wouldn't be here nor would I have bothered to spend money on a coaching certification. However, if you disrespect the game, well, you better prepare yourself for any kind of backlash. I can provide that much as well.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Lefty
The other thing that no one here has seems to either admit or acknowledge is that Stone makes fun of himself and the Hambone.

That doesn't automatically excuse him, and the fact that he doesn't even take himself seriously actually rubs a little more salt in the wound. But, I know, I have issues. nut
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:53 PM

He's being self deprecating and having fun with "hambone". He's knows it's a joke. I know it's a joke. Lots of other people know it's a joke. He's not making fun of bowling or bowlers. At this point, he's making fun of himself. The other week he ever said "What did I do?!"

Posted by: Scott Gannon

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 01:55 PM

This is certainly a hot issue. I myself although Stone annoys me will continue to watch the telecasts. Sometimes with announcers you just have to accept them for who they are and like I said there is always the mute button.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 02:02 PM

Stone has the makings of being a good telecaster for bowling. He's excitable, doesn't make assumptions on stuff he doesn't know, is a little controvercial, has a sense of humor and works to learn the game and its intricacies. He's got a long ways to go but the potential is there.

Just the fact that we're talking about him like we are now shows that he can bring excitement and passion to the sport that was lacking for so long, and we have new people joining the site and talking about being new to bowling all the time.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Gannon
Sometimes with announcers you just have to accept them for who they are and like I said there is always the mute button.

I had a picture of Joe Theismann on my mute button when Sunday Night Football was on. I also mute the Monday Night telecast as well - I don't even tune in.

Originally Posted By: Lefty
He's being self deprecating and having fun with "hambone". He's knows it's a joke. I know it's a joke. Lots of other people know it's a joke. He's not making fun of bowling or bowlers. At this point, he's making fun of himself. The other week he ever said "What did I do?!"

I don't understand the need to be self-deprecating on national TV. If it's "such a joke", he doesn't need to be there. Just call the matches. If you get giddy, that's all the better, but there's no need to poke fun at yourself and act as if you're not taking yourself seriously. In the long run, in my eyes, at least, that means you're not taking your job seriously, which means you really don't care to be there. Call it a "cascading effect", if you will.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 02:11 PM

He is taking his job seriously. He's in the entertainment business and he's helping to entertain the viewers. Oh, I forgot.

There's NO laughing in bowling!!
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 02:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Lefty
. I know, we're all going to bowling hell.


You blasphemous, heathens.

The Bowling Gods have spoken!!!
Posted by: Scott Gannon

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 02:42 PM

Like it or not it is a different day and age. Like Eraser said it is so much about catch phrases and the attention they can get and bring to a sport. Rob Stone is not my cup of tea but if it is perceived he is disrespecting the sport I do not think it is intentional.

In my opinion bowling in a Six Flags parking lot damages the integrity of the sport much more than an obnoxious announcer or some goofy catch phrase.
Posted by: sixbagger

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Gannon
Has anyone heard the phrase "Hambone" referred to in their leagues wne someone gets a four bagger?


Every time I get a turkey I'm thinking come on hambone ... I havent gotten it yet though durn-it!

I dont understand why so many people so uptight about a word - at the end of the day it has zero affect on them.

Seems there are more and more hambone signs - heck now shirts on ESPN every weeek. Its obviously catching on, either that or they are handing out signs just to tick off those who crying about it.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Gannon

In my opinion bowling in a Six Flags parking lot damages the integrity of the sport much more than an obnoxious announcer or some goofy catch phrase.


Not to mention the fact that they didn't even fill the 30 person metal bleacher behind them.
Posted by: General Pounder

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Lefty
Not to mention the fact that they didn't even fill the 30 person metal bleacher behind them.


I have a lot of friends in the St. Louis area. That weekend, it was extremely hot. One of my buddies is on staff for Ebonite and he had to go. He said that it was miserable. He had tickets for other people but no one wanted to sit outside in the heat.
Posted by: Scott Gannon

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/19/08 04:34 PM

Just seems like it was not well thought out. In the summer in a humid city in a parking lot. The impresion it left was that bowlings popularity is so bad you can not even fill one set of bleachers for an event.
Posted by: sixbagger

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/20/08 04:21 PM

Hey I got to yell HAMBONE today - was 1/3 when I had a chance at it... I threw in a double chop fuey for good measure.
Posted by: RLD

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/23/08 08:04 PM

Pete is da man! thumbsup Wish he had better luck in the Tournament of Champions and the Pepsi Championship.
Posted by: pinbuster2

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/24/08 08:14 AM

i agree,pete is da man coolhe is the only one,that has the guts tell rob stone that!but maybe duke will suprise us today! thumbsup
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/24/08 09:09 AM

One of my biggest issues with "hambone" is there is nothing that ties it to a 4 bagger. There's nothing historical behind it like with "turkey", and there is nothing with it that even equates to 4, unlike using nickel for a 5 bagger at least has some sense to it, with a nickel being 5 cents or a 6 pack for a 6 bagger. If he wants to make up a name for a 4 bagger then tie it in and not just pull an obscure reference with food out of the air because of turkey for 3 in a row.

The other is he gets so excited about it before it even happens, which does seem to be a jinx, but lets face it even for pros stringing 4 or more strikes is hard to do. Its much like football on tv, they will show a graphic that says the quarterback on the field hasn't thrown and interception in something like 150 attempts and then 3 plays later there's an interception. It happens 95% of the time when I'm watching.

As an announcer I don't have much issue with Stone other than what I've already said. He is learning, shows some enthusiasm and doesn't just sound like a robot.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/24/08 09:23 AM

Originally Posted By: infernocal
The other is he gets so excited about it before it even happens, which does seem to be a jinx, but lets face it even for pros stringing 4 or more strikes is hard to do. Its much like football on tv, they will show a graphic that says the quarterback on the field hasn't thrown and interception in something like 150 attempts and then 3 plays later there's an interception. It happens 95% of the time when I'm watching.


The only way anything like that would effect the outcome of anything is if the information was heard by the player, which in turn affected their mental game. If they can be effected by something like that, they need a stronger mental game.

Come on, 95% of the time? Did you know 74% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/24/08 11:11 AM

Ok, about 95% of the time maybe a little less maybe a little more, almost every time I've seen that graphic that quarterback throws an interception within 3-5 passing plays. It has nothing to do with the player hearing it, or his mental game, its that they bring these things up when theres a good chance of it happening, I'm not saying its jinxing them, only that when these things are brought up and then it happens that to some it just looks that way.
Posted by: johnw1

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/24/08 03:23 PM

Great lane condition today. It was one that challenged the bowlers and made it exciting in the sense that the bowlers had to work for their strikes. Best of all there were no four baggers and I didn't have to listen to Rob Stone yell 'hambone'.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/24/08 08:50 PM

This is going to make for a boring Monday now frown
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/24/08 11:37 PM

I'm sure something will come up that will not keep you in boredom, Lefty. For that matter, if you fear being bored, just head on down to the lanes and yell "HAMBONE" when someone gets four in a row. I'm sure your boredom will end rather soon enough. wink
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 07:51 AM

Yup,
It was a "boneless" telecast on Sunday. smile
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 08:02 AM

I can't believe there's such a ruckus about "hambone" and there hasn't been any comments about the absolutely terrible hip hop song that was on the telecast this weekend. That was just embarrassing.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 08:03 AM

I was in a tournament there yesterday. There was a guy there who seemed very into the bowling scene in the area. Also seemed like a very good bowler, though I didn't get to see him throw a shot. Might have been slightly autistic or something. Anyway, I heard him muttering hambone! a couple times.

Unfortunately, that's probably not enough to start a row on par with the one from last week.

Hmmmm...
Posted by: Tim Gerard

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 08:26 AM

Believe it. The majority just hate it. A guy on my league was cheering a fellow teamate on who was getting up to bowl. He had three strikes in the previous frames, and his teamate yelled out something about going for a hambone. The bowlers on the opposing team pretty much told him to shut the #@!% up, and not give that term any creedence.
It is pretty funny how that word,...it is just a word can touch off such lively discussions.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 08:46 AM

The people who are really serious and respect the history of the game don't like it, the people that aren't serious or are just getting into it don't care. Its going to make for an interesting verbal battle here soon I think.

And yes Lefty, that hip-hop song was stupid. I was like "what the f***?!" while it was playing.

Though I did enjoy the "goes down like a keg at a frat party!" line.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 08:51 AM

I wasn't completely focused on the telecast, but I thought I heard something that sounded hip-hoppish and I was like HUH??!!! I listen to hip-hop, as well as many other genres of music, but that wasn't something I was expecting to hear on PBA show.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 10:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Timotheus
The people who are really serious and respect the history of the game don't like it, the people that aren't serious or are just getting into it don't care. Its going to make for an interesting verbal battle here soon I think.


I've been bowling ever since I can remember, respect the history of the game and I think it's funny. I guess I'm a mold breaker. laugh
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 10:42 AM

I don't think I would have an issue if he came up with something that has some relevance to 4, like maybe el cuatro or quadruplet, or some reference to bowling or the history of it, like a turkey has historical ties from years ago. I don't get totally out of whack if someone uses it though, I just ignore it, including Stone and all the signs on tv.
Posted by: Timotheus

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 02/25/08 10:59 AM

Nothing wrong with being a mold breaker! I like that Rob is excited about it, but I won't use it in my every day bowling lingo, nor will I berate people for using it. I'll just ignore it or go laugh about it if its a joke.
Posted by: tastybrownies

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/29/08 10:32 PM

Let us pray that when we're watching the US Open tomorrow we don't hear any "hambone", wouldn't be great?
Posted by: Mkirchie

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/29/08 10:44 PM

Considering the averages from qualifying, I don't think we have to worry too much about hearing "hambone", unless one of the 4 finds a great line to the pocket. It should be a rather low scoring event.

Mark
Posted by: Smooth Stroker

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/29/08 10:59 PM

Usually, the averages start out low and get higher as the players burn a line they can carry with. This time, the averages started out on the high side and got progressively lower each round. It seems that the first bowler with a clean game and a triple will win. The first split and your dead. I doubt we will see many "hambones" tomorrow
( thank goodness ). Carry might be out of the question.

It will be interesting to see what lines they will be playing. Duke can play inside or outside, even though his bread and butter is outside. Kent can play inside or outside. Mika can play inside or outside. Loshetter ( or however you spell his name ) plays a tweener type of game. I would be willing to bet they will all be around the same part of the lane. somewhere around 3rd arrow. Kent will probably play the deepest.
Posted by: johnw1

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/30/08 12:44 AM

It just goes to show that those waving those hambone signs are just as ignorant as Stone is.
Posted by: Worm27

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/30/08 06:44 AM

I am sure that all of the haters of "hambone" only bowl with "old school" mineralite bowling balls introduced by the Brunswich Corporation in 1914 and keep score with paper and pencil too. Err wait...the mineralite ball would be a break from the traditional rubber ball of 1905 and even then... we should probably use the traditional hardwood lignum vitae for bowling balls since that was the first U.S. traditional bowling ball material. thumbsup

God forbid that the sport changes or breaks from tradition. I mean, what would be the point of starting a new tradition or changing the game a bit to try and bring more interest to it. Im sure all strike terminalogy has some meaningful history behind it ... like "bagger", "six-pack", "double." "Turkey" obviously does, but just because "it was always that way does it mean it has to always be that way?" confused

I am sure all the "hambone" haters are also screaming at the bowling proprieters to bring back all the "pin boys" and to make archery practice a mandatory pregame warm up routine too. cry

It is ridiculous that people can't keep an open mind to some change or some guy trying to bring new life to the sport. The guy isn't hurting anyone or preaching hatred. How hard is it to just grit your teeth, keep your mouth shut, and let some people show some enthusiasm for the game. The same people who have a problem with it are the same people who grew up watching bowling on ABC sports... where monotone voices and whispering (suspense) was the only marketing tool used to entertain the viewer. Im sure the kids of today are going to be drawn to that technique! sleep

Personally, I think Rob Stone can be annoying as hell, but at least he brings some energy and personality to a sport that is in dire need of it. Bowling is viewed by most of the general public to be a sport dominated by old fat men who don't have the athleticism to play any other sport. Imagine that, a game traditionally played by kings viewed in such a light! eek

If turning the heads of the general public means ruffling a few feathers of so called traditionalists, then so be it. In the end, the more the "traditionalists" fight the word, the more the word continues to garner attention and momentum. Basically, all the haters are the reason why "hambone" is here to stay. Long live "HAMBONE!" wink


Have a nice day grin
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/30/08 09:52 AM

Did this thread really need to be brought back to life?
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/30/08 10:09 AM

Rob Stone is a no nothing, un-knowledgeable, loud talking, self-centered, mockery of this Sport. But, if it wasn't for him, no one would be talking about this Sport except the few on this board.

In this case, any notariety is good publicity. If it is controversial, more people talk about it.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/30/08 10:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Rob Stone is a no nothing, un-knowledgeable, loud talking, self-centered, mockery of this Sport. But, if it wasn't for him, no one would be talking about this Sport except the few on this board.

In this case, any notariety is good publicity. If it is controversial, more people talk about it.


I can hear Stone now..

"Your tears.. your tears make me stronger!"

laugh
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/30/08 12:30 PM

If all goes well for Stone, he will be one of the talking heads on Sport Center making derogatory sounding comments before bowling comes on some day, like, "For those of you with no life, or nothing better to do bowling is coming up next".
Posted by: johnw1

Re: You think Pete likes Stone? - 03/30/08 02:24 PM

I wonder how many members of this forum would be willing to wave a hambone sign if given the opportunity to attend a PBA event? I would hazard a guess that you would be the lone member.

I have nothing against breaking away from tradition as long as it adds something to the game. But hambone replacing 4-bagger or Yahtzee replacing 5-bagger? Sorry, I don't see the connection.

Rob Stone has made little, if any, effort to learn the game (and its traditions). His attempt to "liven up" the broadcast, complete with disconnected catch words, is a mask to hide his lack of knowledge of the game. Rob Stone should stick with soccer commentary, but even then he has numerous detractors among those who know the game of soccer.

It's too bad that Stone does not model himself after the late great Chris Schenkel. Schenkel anchored the PBA broadcast for 23 years and although he was not that knowledgeable about the game, he never alienated the viewing audience. Over the course of his career in the broadcast booth, he became known as the "Voice of the PBA". I don't think that title will ever apply to Rob Stone.

As for being "old school" and a traditionalist, I would have to include myself in that category, although I would like to think of myself as being able to change with the game.

By the way, one of my first bowling balls was a used Brunswick Mineralite ball. The Mineralite was a great ball and I considered it to be a better ball than a more contemporary ball at the time - the Brunswick Black Beauty.