Resin bags

Posted by: Deano79

Resin bags - 04/09/13 05:53 PM

What's people's views in resin bags? I was bowling in a travelling league recently and a bowler on the opposing team used a resin bag on his ball, didn't wipe his ball with a towel then bowled his ball as normal and one of my team mates pulled him up because he didn't wipe the resin off his ball with a towel. Is this a problem that anyone else has come across before? Would be interested to hear your views
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Resin bags - 04/09/13 06:17 PM

To me this should fall under rule 18 of the USBC rule book about altering surfaces. If it's wiped off, with pressure it can scratch the surface thus possibly give the ball more traction. If it's not wiped off it can still allow the ball to grip the lane better as it would act like the particles in a particle ball. I believe at one point there was even a rule directly addressing this but I can't find it in the current rule book. I've heard of some say they are putting it in the grip holes, but in order to do so they must pat the bag on the ball over the holes.

I do use a bag to keep my hand dry but I leave it at my table and never take it up to the ball return.
Posted by: champ

Re: Resin bags - 04/09/13 07:28 PM

I don't know the specific rule found in the USBC rule book, but all foreign surfaces must be wiped off the ball before it is thrown. So, its against the rules, but how big a deal it is in a league setting is debatable.

I also see that you're in the UK. I'm not sure how much (if at all) your governing rules differ from what we use in the US. Just a factor to consider.
Posted by: Deano79

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 04:01 AM

I did think that the ball should be wiped clean but wanted people's views. Thanks smile
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 08:26 AM

I guess I'm "that guy" in a way. My pre-shot routine includes tapping my Storm Grip bag over the finger and thumb holes, BUT I do this with the holes facing up and wipe everything off the ball before I get on the approach (I'm pretty OCD about wiping the ball off during league).

The argument that I'm modifying the surface texture of the ball does not really hold water for me, you'd have to show that the powder residue is more abrasive than, say... a cotton towel, which is at least somewhat abrasive when clean and only gets more abrasive as it picks up dirt. Further, Master advertises at least some of their grip sacks as using "non-abrasive powder".

My issue with the bowler in question is, by getting on the approach with powder on the ball he is, whether intentionally or unintentionally, violating USBC rule 12 "approaches must not be defaced". Over the course of 36 frames, quite a lot of powder is going to fall off an on the approach, this is not fair to other bowlers. I assume there is a similar rule in the UK, to me the right thing to do is take him aside and ask him to stop, and bring it up to a league officer if he refuses.

Also note that specific tournaments or leagues can have more strict rules, there are plenty of times when my pre-shot routine will go out the window...
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By: RickSchott
The argument that I'm modifying the surface texture of the ball does not really hold water for me, you'd have to show that the powder residue is more abrasive than, say... a cotton towel, which is at least somewhat abrasive when clean and only gets more abrasive as it picks up dirt. Further, Master advertises at least some of their grip sacks as using "non-abrasive powder".


Rick I'm not saying using wiping the resin off the ball will alter the surface but there is a possibility that it can. At one time I do remember seeing a rule, or at least a commonly asked question in the rule book that directly addressed this but don't see it any more with the newer books.

As for the bags that are advertised as non-abrasive powder, as is another bowler suppose to know that it is different than any other?

Originally Posted By: RickSchott
My issue with the bowler in question is, by getting on the approach with powder on the ball he is, whether intentionally or unintentionally, violating USBC rule 12 "approaches must not be defaced". Over the course of 36 frames, quite a lot of powder is going to fall off an on the approach, this is not fair to other bowlers. I assume there is a similar rule in the UK, to me the right thing to do is take him aside and ask him to stop, and bring it up to a league officer if he refuses.


Since this is your worry, may I ask where you are when you tap your rosin bag on the ball? Are you at the ball return, at the back of the approach or do you do it on your table? If it's anywhere but at a table you can causing issues for other bowlers. At the ball return the powder can be falling on the floor below it and getting on other bowlers' shoes when they grab their ball. If it's right behind the approach the same thing can happen.

I've never understood why someone needs to try to put resin or rosin in the finger holes when it can be easier and less of an issue for others if the bag is used as it's meant to but holding it in the hand.
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 04:00 PM

You might assume that being a grip bag designed for bowling and manufactured by bowling companies, the intent is that it's a drying agent not an abrasive agent. If someone is wiping a ball with a scotch-brite and a bunch of elbow grease that's cheating, if you're wiping a bit of rosin dust off around the finger and thumb holes with a micro-fiber cloth, with roughly zero pressure that's not going to do anything. If you've got the dust residue on your hand when you pick up the ball, how is that different?

Here is pretty much how it went last night. When it was our turn(s), my opponent and I went up to the ball return area with towel and grip bag in hand. Grip bags are popular in this house because the blowers that work at all BARELY move any air, and it is always too hot. Behind the wood approach there is a tiled area, and in the tiled area there is a keyboard on a stand for operating the scoring machines.

He would wipe the ball with the towel, smoosh the grip bag a few times in his bowling hand, and put the grip bag and towel on the scoring machine keyboard. I would do this... put the grip bag on the keyboard, grab the ball with my towel in my bowling hand (this is another habit for me), return to the keyboard, grab the grip bag and tap it on the holes, wipe the ball off with the towel, put the grip bag on my towel on the keyboard, then up on the approach and bowl when it's my turn.

The only real difference between what I did and the other guy did is the finger/thumb hole thing. I'm sure he spilled as much or perhaps more than I did onto the tile floor doing the "smoosh" move in his open hand.

I don't retrieve the ball from the ball return, walk back to my team table, do my pre-shot routine, and walk back to the approach because some of us have to work in the morning. I try to be efficient and ready to bowl when it is my turn.

I do it because I picked it up from a coach a long time ago, and I like the feel this way. When I like the feel I bowl better, and I like to win, so...

Of course when I bowl in a tournament or event where this is prohibited, I just do without. No biggie but when it's within the rules I do it. I never let the bag over the approaches or on the ball returns though, to me that's bad juju. You know, like these two noobs.

Posted by: NoThumbNoProblem

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 04:40 PM

I used to use a rosin bag for my hand and on my ball over the fingers until I heard about the USBC rule stating that you can't leave any foreign substance on the ball when you deliver it. Having excess rosin can either fall on the approach or on the lanes. I wouldn't want anything on the approach to mess with my slide, and if it's on the lanes that can really mess them up too. I heard something recently about baby powder now being allowed for the same reason.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 05:11 PM

I use a grip bag but not with rosin in it, at least not in powder form. It is larger pellets and used to draw the moisture off the hand. Eventually the pellets do become dust but it never leaves where I am sitting at except to go in my bag. Even if it was a powder form I wouldn't completely cover my hand with the powder. Just grabbing it for a few seconds should be enough. Using a sack that lets powder out anywhere bowlers walk frequently can cause issues for bowlers, even the tiled areas behind the approach. It usually doesn't unless someone is constantly dropping the bag on the floor.

But if you are going to bring up the concern of defacing the approaches, you need to understand that using it anywhere with heavy foot traffic is an issue. More will get on the floor during the patting on the ball than if it is on the hand already or the ball.

One thing all of us agree on is it should be wiped off the ball but I know there are some who would try to bend the rules and load it up on the ball and rub hard all the way around the track area. Before I had really read the rules I had seen this actually done.
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio


But if you are going to bring up the concern of defacing the approaches, you need to understand that using it anywhere with heavy foot traffic is an issue. More will get on the floor during the patting on the ball than if it is on the hand already or the ball.


Gosh, I couldn't disagree more. I TAP it on the holes and wipe off the little bit that gets on the ball. The guy next to me is gripping, GRINDING the bag in his hand really, the excess goes straight on the floor. Mine goes into my towel. If it's left loose on the ball, it will fall off to some degree during the delivery, again, mine is in my towel. Even if someone only uses it at their table, the residue is on their hand and some must come off on the approach.

I also carry Ebonite Ultra-Slide but only use it for my thumb if it's a little sticky, I know they sell it for shoe soles but that's another no-no. Meanwhile people in my league are using baby powder on their soles so I don't think I'm going to feel too bad about my pre-shot routine.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 06:59 PM

I'm not talking about "grinding" the bag, but a quick squeeze or two at the table shouldn't leave a bunch on the hand that should fall off. Tapping the bag on the ball doesn't just leave it on the ball but also sends clouds of dust outward, I've never seen any type of dust/powder that doesn't in a situation like that and working in construction I am around all types of it. But like I said unless the grip sack is constantly being thrown on the floor shouldn't be causing an issue. I know you, Rick, are trying to not let it interfere with the approach conditions when so many others don't.

As for the original post, I'd be more worried about someone trying to gain an advantage by leaving the rosin on the ball than it effecting the approaches, unless they lay the ball down behind the line where others slide.

As for the Ultra-Slide, if used correctly shouldn't be an issue. Several years ago I bowled in a league that had a bowler that didn't use it correctly. He left it the bag on the floor under his chair, luckily it was usually on the carpet behind the other team. He literally stomped on it, especially on his heel since he slid leaning backwards and we all know the heel is suppose to stop you and he was more on his heel than sole of the shoe. My brother who was on my team had his foot slide forward out from under him three times and the league president finally after several complaints and trying to say it was legal came down and made the bowler stop.
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Resin bags - 04/10/13 07:12 PM

Not that it has anything to do with anything, but, union tin-knocker here since fall '99 smile

Honestly if one player said a thing about my pre-shot routine I'd probably change it, it's just never happened. I don't do "fun leagues" these days, either... it's pretty competitive.
Posted by: 56bird

Re: Resin bags - 12/01/13 02:56 PM

Watched the WSOB Cheetah Championship today, and couldn't help but be reminded of this thread. Holy duststorms, Batman!

Meanwhile I've gotten entirely out of the habit of touching the grip sack to my finger or thumb holes at all. Figured I may as well get used to it all the time, so if I bowled in a tournament or what have you where there was some rule enforced, it would never affect me.
Posted by: 6_ball_man

Re: Resin bags - 12/02/13 01:40 PM

I no longer use rosin, but like having something to do with my hand between shots, so we got some flannel at a fabric store and a bag of kidney beans and my wife put it all together for me. I have had this contraption for years and really like it.
Posted by: BOSStull

Re: Resin bags - 12/07/13 07:31 AM

I was bowling Monday and saw a container of baby powder on a table near the ball return on the adjacent lanes. It had loose powder all over it. It was excessive. Reminded me of reading this thread.

I also use baby powder. I apply very little and in an area behind the pit and not on the ball. It has become a pre shot routine about every 2-3 frames just to apply a little especially around my thumb. My thumb by preference is tight and I would not get the desired release at times. A little powder is more a preventive solution to the thumb hanging in the ball too long. Just curious anyone else have a routine like this?
Posted by: Joe Bowler

Re: Resin bags - 12/07/13 10:38 AM

Originally Posted By: BOSStull
I was bowling Monday and saw a container of baby powder on a table near the ball return on the adjacent lanes. It had loose powder all over it. It was excessive. Reminded me of reading this thread.

I also use baby powder. I apply very little and in an area behind the pit and not on the ball. It has become a pre shot routine about every 2-3 frames just to apply a little especially around my thumb. My thumb by preference is tight and I would not get the desired release at times. A little powder is more a preventive solution to the thumb hanging in the ball too long. Just curious anyone else have a routine like this?

Personally, I am not fond of using either rosin or powder. I prefer to keep the thumbhole clean with alcohol pads, and adjust for fit with smooth black tape. However, I learned the hard way to have EZ-Slide available at all times for those hot, humid centers when stickiness is unavoidable, especially during the summer months.