Sanctioned or not?

Posted by: aoiten

Sanctioned or not? - 04/22/10 08:54 PM

What is the difference or benefit of a sanctioned league compared to a non-sanctioned league?
Posted by: ecub

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/22/10 08:59 PM

USBC will not recognize any special awards, like 300, 800, etc.

League rules are controlled by the house, which are more relaxed. Any issues, must be brought up to the house. Most houses usually don't really enforce allot of the rules anyways. For example, you can bring in a sub on position round or it's supposed to be a mixed league, but you have all men bowlers. One time on position round, the female bowler on our team couldn't make it, so I asked another person to come in. I forgot it was position round and that sub was a male. We won position round, but I realized my mistake. I brought it up to the house, which they said "Eh, it's only a summer league". I then brought it up to the other team and they said something similar. I know on our sanctioned league, someone would have raised a hooplah over it by the 2nd frame of the 1st game.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 04:14 AM

well besides the above, USBC also has rules as to who can hold an officer position and who cannot and how many of them can be on one team. So you dont' get one family controlling the entire league by virtue of officer votes if they even take votes. Of course non sanctioned leagues can be total dictatorships. No recourse. Rules can be changed half way through the league, league fees can be changed arbitrarily. People can be eliminated from a league based on "I don't like him/her". No recourse.

No a very important thing. USBC offers bonding and security for league funds. If the league funds were to be stolen and proper procedure taken USBC covers it. In a non sanctioned league there's nothing to keep the officers from just keeping the money and not paying out. Or saying "I lost it, someone broke into my car, house, briefcase, ect........" without somewhere to go with that.

USBC sanctioned leagues give you an official average with which you can go to nearly every tournament and bowl. Without an official average you are out of luck if you want to bowl.

But the main issue to me is that the controlling force behind the league politics are limited with USBC sancitioning.

Erin
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 05:38 AM

Originally Posted By: ecub
For example, you can bring in a sub on position round or it's supposed to be a mixed league, but you have all men bowlers. One time on position round, the female bowler on our team couldn't make it, so I asked another person to come in. I forgot it was position round and that sub was a male.


These are rules that leagues make and are not USBC rules. A mixed league just means the league is opened to both genders but can be any combination of males and females. The leagues add the stipulations of at least one member of the opposite [censored]. The same is true of subs on position round, it's a league rule not USBC, it just happens that most leagues have that rule. Now if it was a league rule even being an unsanctioned league it should be followed.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 07:51 AM

So...if the league is sanctioned, does it cost more? Does everyone have to be USBC members to join? If my average is still low, is it better to not make the numbers official? heh
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 08:45 AM

Also, you can't use a spinner release in a sanctioned league.
Posted by: ecub

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 09:20 AM

Originally Posted By: aoiten
if the league is sanctioned, does it cost more?

There's an annual sanction fee that you have to pay, roughly around $20. It's usually per region. For example, if you want to join another league in another town, but the same county, you don't have to pay the sanction fee for that other league. Just let the league secretary know that you're already in another sanctioned league. If it's a different region, you may pay a discounted rate.

Originally Posted By: aoiten
Does everyone have to be USBC members to join?

Yes. The league secretary will give all the forms to be filled out.

Originally Posted By: aoiten
If my average is still low, is it better to not make the numbers official? heh

It's up to you. I've seen guys who throw hard & fast one or especially 2 handed and think they're good, just because they can throw a strike who have an average around the 130's. When I first started in a sanctioned league back in 2004, I had a 156 average. I now have a 202 average. My major mistake were trying to force the ball to what it wasn't supposed to do, rather than letting it do what it was designed to do. I would have done better knowing about this forum allot sooner. The nice thing is, you can see your progress on the USBC website. If you do happen to roll a 300, 11 strikes in a row, 800 series, and I think a 900 series, it will be shown on the USBC website. It's allot nicer to brag about it to your friends or your bowling buddies. Otherwise, you would have to carry around a printout of your achievement.

FYI, a book average is your average in the USBC member books, which can also be looked up at bowl.com.

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Also, you can't use a spinner release in a sanctioned league.

I didn't know that. I would assume that a sanctioned league didn't care how you through the ball. I've seen different types of releases from 1 to 3 fingers being used, 1 or 2 handed, a backup ball as their regular strike release, and even one that spins backwards first then rolls forward.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 09:32 AM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Also, you can't use a spinner release in a sanctioned league.


That has to be a joke. If not, the two-handed approach and straight shots for strikes would be banned as well. heh Though, I can imagine someone not wanting a spinner on their team due to doubting the effectiveness of the style.

(Ah, I just thought of something. Just like there is the plastic ball tournament, it might be interesting to have a straight-shot tournament. In that case, I wonder if the spinner would be allowed considering that it can travel straight, just like my Blue Dot even with some side rotation on it.)
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 10:06 AM

You are correct, it is a joke smile .
Posted by: B-Hammer

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 11:03 AM

If the non-sanctioned league has been around for a while or it was a sanctioned league that is just trying to make things cheaper then I'm sure it will be run just fine, but there is a risk that things won't be run as well because big brother isn't watching.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 12:02 PM

Being an officer for a few years in our league, if you aren't, you would be surprised how many times the local USBC has been consulted on rules. We have to call them 3-4 times a year, and they were not minor things left to interpretation.

We have gotten legal opinions on certain rule changes, and the security of lost funds is worth the cost of entry.
Posted by: Badam

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By: ecub
The nice thing is, you can see your progress on the USBC website. If you do happen to roll a 300, 11 strikes in a row, 800 series, and I think a 900 series, it will be shown on the USBC website. It's allot nicer to brag about it to your friends or your bowling buddies. Otherwise, you would have to carry around a printout of your achievement.

FYI, a book average is your average in the USBC member books, which can also be looked up at bowl.com.


How extensively does USBC track individual bowler statistics? Do they only track major achievements like 300's, 800's, and book averages? Or, do they track every score of every sanctioned game that you bowl? If you drop out for a few years, do you lose your stats/book average? Or, can you establish a book average, then miss a few seasons and come back bowl a tournament/league and still find a book average from years ago?
Posted by: ecub

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 01:32 PM

I'm an officer of the board in our mixed league and an active captain in 2 leagues and this is what I've known/seen...

Originally Posted By: Badam
How extensively does USBC track individual bowler statistics? Do they only track major achievements like 300's, 800's, and book averages? Or, do they track every score of every sanctioned game that you bowl?

I don't think they do individual stats. I know the secretary turns in the achievement score to USBC. I doubt USBC actually track individually scores. It's up to the individual. There's too much data to collect. It is a good question, which I'll send an email to USBC to find out.

I'm not sure how long USBC keeps the stats. I did look up a person on our league, who past away around 2004, and he still has his book average. I don't know if they do any type of purging of old data.

As far as leagues, I'm not sure what the league rule is, but I know that the secretary on our Men's league looks at the book average for the past 3 years. You may have to ask your secretary. We had a guy who hadn't bowled in over a year, and his book average was used from that last time it was recorded.

Regarding a tourny, I've gone to a few local ones and they go by, I think, 5 years.
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 06:06 PM

USBC keeps track of individuals' Honor Scores that are turned as well as other scores that earn you an award, since they are a one per a year deal. They tried to make everything once in a lifetime but quickly changed their mind.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/23/10 08:24 PM

The Special Achievement awards are only kept within the computer system of the local association (if they input everyone). USBC and the Bowling Museum track the honor awards (as well as the local assoc.).

Erin
Posted by: Sevens

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/24/10 04:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Atochabsh
well besides the above, USBC also has rules as to who can hold an officer position and who cannot and how many of them can be on one team. So you dont' get one family controlling the entire league by virtue of officer votes if they even take votes. Of course non sanctioned leagues can be total dictatorships. No recourse. Rules can be changed half way through the league, league fees can be changed arbitrarily. People can be eliminated from a league based on "I don't like him/her". No recourse.

No a very important thing. USBC offers bonding and security for league funds. If the league funds were to be stolen and proper procedure taken USBC covers it. In a non sanctioned league there's nothing to keep the officers from just keeping the money and not paying out. Or saying "I lost it, someone broke into my car, house, briefcase, ect........" without somewhere to go with that.

USBC sanctioned leagues give you an official average with which you can go to nearly every tournament and bowl. Without an official average you are out of luck if you want to bowl.

But the main issue to me is that the controlling force behind the league politics are limited with USBC sancitioning.

Erin


Wow,you certainly illustrate the absolute worse that can happem. Every league I have bowled in has had no problems whatsoever and every is very laid back.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/24/10 09:45 AM

The USBC does other "behind the scenes" things also, like equipment certification and setting ball specifications. They test every ball before it is released to ensure it meets standards. And, they calculate the rg and diff for accurate publication.

Otherwise we would go back to the acetone soaked balls with soft covers. Ball certification for tournaments is another thing that they do. Their studies on balls have led to many advancements as well.

Don't view them as "Big Brother". They actually perform a valuable function for the sport. And, they did write the rule book.
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/24/10 10:19 AM

I read that the JBT isn't happy with the USBC. What other organisations sanction leagues in the USA?
Posted by: ecub

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/24/10 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: aoiten
I read that the JBT isn't happy with the USBC. What other organisations sanction leagues in the USA?


This is what I've read regarding JBT & USBC...
Quote:
With the start of the 2006-07 season, the Junior Bowlers Tour and almost every large tournament group in the country has elected not to have their events USBC-certified. The USBC now requires that all certified events deposit their scholarship money with them. This would cost the JBT scholarship fund a huge amount of interest, based on their "administrative fees" and their investing practices. The JBT would lose the Challenge Tournament, the Masters and some other events that are funded by the interest earned throughout the year. We are not willing to sacrifice those events.


Are there issues your having with the USBC?
Posted by: aoiten

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/24/10 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: ecub


Are there issues your having with the USBC?


I don't have any personal issues with the USBC. I'm just curious if there are alternatives that are still "official."
Posted by: Reconbbs

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/24/10 04:23 PM

USBC is pretty much it. There's nothing wrong with it.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/25/10 01:47 AM

"nothing wrong with it" is debatable.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/25/10 01:50 AM

Quote:
Otherwise we would go back to the acetone soaked balls with soft covers.


that was MEK and you don't want to breath it or get a bunch of it on your skin.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: Sanctioned or not? - 04/25/10 01:53 AM

Used to be a NBA, national bowling assoc. But its defunct. Most, and all I can think of, sub organizations are affiliated with USBC.