100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin

Posted by: ijohn83

100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/04/09 02:34 PM

Well first off the ball doesn't make the bowler. I love my new LM Terminator but I still have to throw it correctly. My first Video is a game with my old BW Bite with the bridge fixed and now the pin is under the ring finger instead of above it; I like the early roll.



This second Video is my next game with my new LM Terminator with the pin next to the ring finger:



I started with the Terminator inside my BW Bite line, but changed after three frames to my exact Bite line; 18 at the dots to 8 at the arrows.

I think I am getting lower at release and that helps my balance arm do its job.
Also, the ball is still working its way closer to my slide ankle.
My trailing leg is still slow to get out of the way.
I still accelerate the ball at release but maybe not as much.

It’s still me bowling and I'm not about to give up my night job yet.

What’s the good, bad, & ugly?

~ John
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/04/09 02:42 PM

You are definitely getting around the ball early, and accelerating the downswing like you mentioned, but its not bad or ugly by any means.

Just a friendly help with lining up, to shoot the 5-7 split try moving your feet 5 boards left of where you throw your strike shot and target the same mark. It will look like the balls going to go in the gutter but it will recover and you will make it 90% of the time like that. I would say I make 11 out of 12 5-7 splits and I never change how I shoot them.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/04/09 02:45 PM

while watching this it looks like you're tugging the ball a lot which is either you gripping probably or a fit problem. will edit also


can you answer.. i know you were practicing so was the video about the actual bowling or were you just showing your approach etc and not caring about score?

if the first you are not a bad bowler at all and you have two nice moving balls. i say if you haven't already trying standing farther outside and a straighter line and letting the balls work. i noticed you were just throwing them straight at the head pin a lot.

also i shouldn't be so ignorant, as some of those were you just tugging the ball. im not very good with words im very sorry. wait for someone more experienced to help.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/04/09 03:33 PM

Turning the ball early will almost 100% of the time result in a tugged or pulled shot.

But to me the pulling seems caused by the elbow not staying tucked in. And that's where you need to lead with the ring finger, the forearm lined up with your ball path, the ball weight on the pad just beneath your index finger and that elbow snugged into your side.

Oh and John, We forgot to charge you extra for all the strikes we put in that Terminator.

Erin
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/04/09 03:52 PM

Man I am obviously not paying my pro shop enough because if thats what it takes to throw a lot of strikes I have some extra money haha...

I agree after watching again, I didn't notice the elbow being out away from the body a little bit. I am still working on reading people and breaking down their mechanics. I learn something new every time!
Posted by: MJA

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/04/09 04:38 PM

I'm impressed with spare game. I'm by no means in a position to cretique someones game but I would maybe try to keep the elbow in toward your side in the stance. From the angle I saw it looks as if your pushaway may be leading off left. Something to try maybe. Also try to keep your sweeping leg on the aprouch, it will help with good knee bend and balance.
Posted by: ijohn83

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 02:11 AM

sk8shorty01 - I'll try the 5 board move left for the 5 - 7 pick-ups my next opportunity. Yea - my early turning just kills me.

A K - my tugging the ball is a mental problem not a fit problem I believe. Erin says it is my early turn. The funny thing is that when I bowl I am telling myself do not turn at all; lead with ring finger. As far as my practicing goes, I am a little gun shy on what to post. When I practice I bowl the first half of the first game with my spare ball only - I shoot head pin, ten pin, seven pin and pick up the corresponding spares. The last half of the first game I'm reading the lane looking for the best line. The second game I am going for score but no Video. The third & forth games I am also going for score. I Video those two games and I post them wither they are good games or bad. My last three games I do different things depending on my goals for the session. I may shoot an entire game with my spare ball. I may keep on the best strike line and work on keeping the ball in the pocket. I may work my extreme left comfort zone then go to the right to roll down the one board. I have fun practicing by myself, but on Thursday mornings I bowl strictly for score against my bowling team mate. If I lose series and majority of games - I'm paying for both of us.
As far as the outside line, that is my favorite place to play; pointed at the pocket. But I am working hard at trying to be a good bowler and just not depend on total accuracy. If I ever get my release right and pick up some side roll I will be able to hit the break points without standing right of ten. Some day...

MJA - Would you elaborate on my "sweeping leg". I've been trying to get it at 7:00 forever but it just likes to be behind and under me. I think it is related to my hip not getting out of the way.

~ John
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 02:35 AM

Quote:
sk8shorty01 - I'll try the 5 board move left for the 5 - 7 pick-ups my next opportunity. Yea - my early turning just kills me.


For me is 5 1/2 boards. The sad part of that is that I've left that leave enough times to know its 5 1/2 boards.

Erin
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 02:42 AM

You have it backwards John. You need to depend on total accuracy. Because when the chips are down and conditions are really tough, only accuracy will help you. You have good accuracy. Accuracy is not easy to come by. Its learned from years of patient hand/eye coordination. That's why most youth do not have it and are "area" bowlers. So fall back on your accuracy because you have it, and it will hold you in good company when going gets tough. Do not sabotage it, by second guessing it.

You just need to keep that elbow in, get a bit lower at the line and it'll come to you.

As far as where you play the lanes. It doesn't matter as long as it works. Do you know how frustrating it is for the crankers to be fighting the shot by covering too many boards on a spotty shot, when you are stable in the pocket with a simple point to the pocket? It drives them crazy. So learn to live with your strengths.

Erin
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 06:43 AM

John, you are still not dropping the ball into the swing. You keep stopping your swing and pulling the ball back then pulling it forward.

Let the ball swing stop trying to control it.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 08:55 AM

Erin,
I actually move 5 1/2 as well, I figured 5 would be an easier adjustment early on haha. See I am in the same company with you, sad I know that as well haha.


John,
Remember that the 5 board adjustment will get you close, real close, but it might not be exact depending on your roll and area of the lanes you are playing. Just make sure you release the ball the same as your strike ball, don't try to throw it harder because its a split and you will get an honest evaluation of what you need to do next. If the 5 pin goes behind the 7, go with 5 1/2, if it goes in front try 4 1/2 or 4 3/4. Good luck out there!
Posted by: ijohn83

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 09:10 AM

Thanks for the tip on the 5 - 7. I'll try your move in the next month or so if I get a chance. :-) The split I throw the most is the 4 - 6

Elbow in & DROP the ball!
Elbow in & DROP the ball!
Elbow in & DROP the ball!
Elbow in & DROP the ball!
Elbow in & DROP the ball!
(but don't go into the lazy wrist mode)

Have a great day all,

~ John
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 09:33 AM

instead of saying drop the ball, "place" the ball might be a better term. You are wanting to place the ball into its swing, and let it fall into line and free swing. I think drop implies a sudden change in direction, where in all reality you want the ball to slowly transition from moving forward to moving down. Its almost like the ball is at the top of a feris wheel, thats about the motion you want.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 09:52 AM

Originally Posted By: ijohn83
Thanks for the tip on the 5 - 7. I'll try your move in the next month or so if I get a chance. :-) The split I throw the most is the 4 - 6

Elbow in & DROP the ball!
Elbow in & DROP the ball!
Elbow in & DROP the ball!
Elbow in & DROP the ball!
Elbow in & DROP the ball!
(but don't go into the lazy wrist mode)

Have a great day all,

~ John


Try to take all your arm muscles out of the equation. Set up and put the total weight of the ball in your left hand and COMPLETELY relax your right shoulder, arm and hand. Push the ball out and let it drop all on it's own. Do NOT engage your arm muscles at all. Let the ball swing back and forth without any intervention from your arm muscles.

If you don't engage your arm muscles, you can't turn the ball early. If you don't turn the ball early, your elbow doesn't fly out.
Posted by: ijohn83

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 02:59 PM

One of the problems I have is that I run out of real estate under the ball on set up and it doesn't feel right to have my hands over lapping.

I will work on "placing" the ball into the swing with my off hand.

Does a strong forearm assist a lazy wrist?
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 03:08 PM

Use Ron's method here, or put your hand more on the side of the ball in the stance.

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip7.htm
Posted by: Lefty

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 05:42 PM

You can also put your left hand in front of your right hand.
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/05/09 05:48 PM

I had him put more weight of the ball on that pad under his index finger because with his hand on the side of the ball at stance, the elbow flew out even more.

Anyway, every bowler seems to have their battle with the flying elbow. Find a way or key on keeping it tucked that works for you.

Erin
Posted by: ijohn83

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/10/09 05:17 PM

I am still holding the down swing back & accelerating the forward swing causing my early turning. I wouldn't have even posted this only game I Video if I hadn’t made such a nice 8 - 9 pick-up in the ninth frame.



I couple of side bar questions I have as I continue to work on an un-muscled swing:

1) Reaching down (dragging knuckles) on my release has seemed to natural put my balance arm into play without even trying. Is there something to do naturally to get my trailing leg from 6:00 under me to 7:00 out from under me?

2) I seem to have a mental problem with the 3 - 10. Is there a standard move off of the 10 pin line or something that minimizes the mental space between the two pins? - (I finally left a 5 – 7 and moved 4 1/2 boards left and picked it up; 1 – 1.)

~ John
Posted by: jsigone

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/10/09 06:13 PM

link doesn't seem to work for me.....
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/10/09 06:15 PM

Quote:
2) I seem to have a mental problem with the 3 - 10. Is there a standard move off of the 10 pin line or something that minimizes the mental space between the two pins? - (I finally left a 5 – 7 and moved 4 1/2 boards left and picked it up; 1 – 1.)


if you don't want to shoot in between it you could just throw your strike ball. it will hit the 3 and slide it into the 10
Posted by: ijohn83

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/10/09 06:49 PM

Strike ball for the 3 - 7 might be a good idea. I'll try it tomorrow - Thanks
Posted by: TheDemolitionMan

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/10/09 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: ijohn83
Strike ball for the 3 - 7 might be a good idea. I'll try it tomorrow - Thanks


Why not just throw straight at a six pin? That should do the trick.

And likewise for the 5-7, aim for the 9 pin.

Both work for me. I still haven't figured out the 3-10 yet but I'm getting close.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/11/09 08:35 AM

Looking a lot better there John, and I see what you are saying with your trailing leg. One way to fix it is to get a little bit of angle in your shoulders (right shoulder just below the left) and to bring the ball in closer to the ankle at release. If you watch your trail leg closely you will notice it starts to tuck under your body but then stops and moves back to 6:00 in order to keep balance because of the flat shoulders and the ball being out from the ankle. If you can fix those your trail leg should do its thing naturally, just remember it is the counter weight to the bowling ball so whatever the ball and you arm does, the leg has to compensate for it.

Also, not to rain on your spare pickup but it was a 4-9 I am almost certain.
Posted by: ijohn83

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/11/09 04:22 PM

You are right. It was the 4 - 9.

I was having fun today practicing the 5 - 7 with no 7. I do leave a lot of single 5's. Move 4 1/2 boards left and throw a strike ball. Sure enough pops the 5 pins to where the 7 pin would be.

And no on the strike ball for the 3 – 10. Better for me to work on not "tugging" my spare ball and going at the 3 from the left side.

~ John
Posted by: Jay R.

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/12/09 04:10 AM

If you want to bounce the ball of the ball off the 3 into the 10, my adjustment is just to stand two boards right of my 10-pin position. Try that while keeping everything else the same and see how that works. That should put you close enough to at least adjust off it fairly easily. You might even be able to practice it on a full rack or just the 3-pin like you did with the 5-7 on your 5-pin leaves.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 02/12/09 09:36 AM

Amateur, that is also my adjustment for the 3-10 baby split.

John, glad the 5-7 adjustment worked out for you, now if you don't think about it during league play you should make it about 90% of the time. Its just another ball, no big deal!
Posted by: ijohn83

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 05/05/09 07:08 PM

I just got my Video camera back from my mom. I just wanted to post my 5-7 pick-up before I tape over it.



Four boards left of strike shot works, but three boards left works best for me.

~ John
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 05/05/09 08:10 PM

Quote:
Four boards left of strike shot works, but three boards left works best for me.


It used to be two boards left back in the days of plastic and rubber gear (aim at your same target as your strike by the way for those wondering what to aim at).

You left it because if you look at the way you released the ball, everything was going upward, the swing, your head your body, everything was heading ^
Posted by: beefers1

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 05/08/09 12:29 AM

Just a side note about 5-7 splits (5-10 for me). You say you move inside and shoot at your strike target? Shouldn't I go relatively straight at it? What I do is move way outside and throw straight at the 5, a bit to the left, usually the reactive ball will hook by itself just enough to slide the 5 into the 10. Is it better to go deep in and hook it?

As for the baby split, I usually try and slide the 2 into the 10 instead of fitting the ball in between.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 05/08/09 07:56 AM

John, I just can't remember ever leaving a 5 or 5-7 with my Terminator. Seems your entry angle is not deep enough or your speed doesn't let the ball finish. The ball should take that 5 out. I max out at 17 mph.

Hope you like your Terminator. Mine is the best ball I own. I have it drilled for more length, and I get a sharper finish. I can use it in game 1, but put it away when the oil starts to spread. It over reacts. But, I take it out in game 3, move outside and cross carrydown like it wasn't there.

The 2 lines I use are over 13 to 5 at the break on game 1, and then move outside, straight up 8 in game 3.
Posted by: ijohn83

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 05/08/09 09:02 AM

Hi Dennis,

I don't leave a lot of 5-7's, but I do spend most of my bowling life with poor, entry angle. I still pretty much blow the pins straight back & leave any possible single pin from the back two rows. I have about zero axis tilt & basically steer my "bike" on ice without any leaning.
I have brought my ball closer to my slide ankle & maybe my swing plane is straighter. But As much as I bowl I have only felt the power & leverage you guys talk about a total of three times; and just about shot the ball through the back wall of the building!
Until I get my hand under the ball & not on top at release I am screwed and it doesn't matter what ball I have. I'm about two weeks away from Ron's bowling camp and was hoping to power the Videos to you guys to dial me in closer. I kind of feel that I'm not even trained enough to go to a "advanced" bowling camp. Every Video I take is an early wrist turn, hand on top of ball tape that would just waste everyone’s time.
I do like my Terminator, but pretty much save it in hopes I can do it justice some day. I throw my BW Bite that has at lease 1500 games on it & has been in the oven every week for about a year now.
I will be posting pretty quickly here to show you what I mean. I still score well and throw a good spare ball, but down & in from the outside is still my only real game.
This weekend I’m off to Disneyland with the wife, but after that I will post a current bowing session.

Still having fun - in a frustrating kind of way,

~ John
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: 100+ games, a new ball, & a lesson from Erin - 05/08/09 10:36 AM

John, I must live in a Terminator neighborhood. Even with the fads of newer balls, there are still quite a few Terminators on each set of lanes. And, many more carry the ball waiting for the right conditions.

It is good to have a ball that you can rely on and have trust in. When I get into trouble, reading patterns and lane conditions, I can always pull it out. I just know what it is going to do.