my first bowling video shot

Posted by: stevefoxwong

my first bowling video shot - 02/12/07 01:01 AM

Feel free to comment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWvge5sFpvU
Posted by: Smooth23

Re: my first bowling video shot - 02/18/07 03:16 AM

I just always wonder why I see people cramming 5 steps into where most people start a 3 step approach.
Posted by: Workin to get good!!

Re: my first bowling video shot - 02/18/07 08:20 AM

The thing I see wrong is your aproach when walking up you kinda stumble over your feet.Rather than walk up straight you walk up crossing over your feet as you aproach,kinda like a drunk guy.Hope this helps.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: my first bowling video shot - 02/18/07 11:01 AM

You start with left and walk right. Then your right crosses over to the left. While this is happening, your body is swinging from right to left. Hard to focus on your target. You make it a moving target.

Couldn't see your release, But your second roll was faster. Is that normal on a spare?
Posted by: Atochabsh

Re: my first bowling video shot - 02/18/07 12:28 PM

I actually don't see the wandering as a huge problem as long as you do it the same all the time. Its the first two steps, the first of which in a five step approach is a timing step, but you come right back inline with the last three. I also don't have a problem with where you start and the number of steps. You don't rush your footwork and you are not taking lunging giant steps, that's all good. You have good knee bend, just hold that finish position longer.

What I would like to see is for you to not drop your shoulder so much, which pulls you off balance a bit. And causes you to kind of launch the ball upwards. I'd like to see a release that lets the ball land onto the lane like an airplane, not stone skipping across a pond. If that makes sense. The second shot was better, IMO. Better balance, and shoulder not as dropped. Don't be afraid to use that balance arm a little more effectively.

Next time you have a video opportunity, take a side view. Bowl on the right lane and try to get your video from the next pair of lanes. Of course you'd have to get the manager's permission and it won't be feasable if the center is busy. Don't bother taking a left

Erin
Posted by: Smooth Stroker

Re: my first bowling video shot - 02/18/07 05:55 PM

What I see from this hard to see video and bad angle, is a forward swing which travels away from your body. You look like you are turning your hand too early. I bet you end up tugging the ball a lot. If you kept the ball close to your ankle, that would alleviate "chicken winging" as it is called. Try to keep the hand flat until it reaches just before your ankle. At this flat spot, your hand should be closer to your ankle. Try to keep your arm close to your side during your forward swing. This will eliminate chicken winging and tugging.
Posted by: Brian Longo

Re: my first bowling video shot - 02/18/07 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Smooth23
I just always wonder why I see people cramming 5 steps into where most people start a 3 step approach.

When I was bowling right-handed, I used to take 5 steps with only 10 feet of approach (at the front dots), and even then, I ended up 1 foot from the foul line. As a left-hander, I end up about 8 inches from the foul line with a 4 step approach that starts only 8 feet from the foul line. I don't see what the big deal is with that and why it was necessary to comment on that. Just because you have 15 feet (or more) of approach doesn't mean you need to use it all.
Posted by: Lefty

Re: my first bowling video shot - 02/19/07 08:53 AM

It's hard to tell, but it also looks like you're slowing the ball down on it's decent from your pushaway. You should let it fall more freely. You'll generate more ball speed and power.
Posted by: stevefoxwong

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/01/07 01:11 AM

suprise to see reply after one week of no comment.
my first step is walk towards my target, second step i purposely drift left, to clear my hip and i heard drift left can help when play more inside line. my last step i step left for balance. but i not very happy with my step speed compare to the pros. i think i miss something there.

i also think that i cramming 5 steps, I reduce it to correct my timing. but i take about 1-2 step back on my spare where i have a higher Push away. i believe that if my back swing is higher, i can start more backwards, to key the timing right. i also trying ron clifton pull down on forward down swing to have a gravity drop down swing. but i ran into some acuraccy problem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFi19JTokI8

i have recently have a new video which my shoulder dont drop so much. which i prevent my body to tilt too much right. this video i think the ball have more smooth landing like airplane. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGvANq42NA
Currently i trying to work on my ball Speed. either like tommy jone or couch with high back swing, or like walter ray with some muscle on release, i heard pete weber have high back swing (31km/hr)but the speed is still slower than walter ray(32km/hr) data from japan cup video.

Thanks for all the great advise. i will try to take a right side video during practice. those shorts are taken during fun bowl match.

i going to try ron clifton tilt shoulder method to raise my back swing, just like walter ray , where he bent down after the push away to allow the ball to go up.

Any other help on increase ball speed is appreciated. currently my ball speed is 2.8 sec. i hope to raise to 2.5 sec, without holding my ball too high up on the shoulder, just like those pros.
Posted by: stevefoxwong

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/01/07 01:37 AM

i think second roll is more relax than the first one. the second one is still a strike shot
Posted by: mkee19

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/01/07 08:38 AM

What I've learned in the little time I've been bowling, is to bowl in your comfort zone. The only time I worry about speed is when I feel like I'm being too soft with the delivery. I used to get caught up in the "speed" hype b/c I had friends throwing about 2-5 mph faster than me. It doesnt matter how slow you throw, your equipment should be drilled to match your speed, and allow you to strike w/o feelin like you have to "throw" the ball. Look at Tim Criss, and Patrick Healey Jr., both have slower ball speeds, but do pretty well.
Posted by: pinhead

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/01/07 12:48 PM

As a casual observer, not a coach, I don't find any real problems with your stance or approach. I like to believe that being Individuals we all have to adapt to the "basics" in our own way. With that said, there is some truth to the observations made by the other folks who have responded before me, as far as what is deemed "rules of thumb basics". But I would offer some advice in this way...."if your happy with your game, don't change it, if you're not, then heed the advice of some and disregard the advice of others" What works for some, will not work the same for all, make little changes at a time. And first and foremost, always listen - try it - then decide. Garbage in, Garbage out. Keep what works for you and trash the stuff that dont.
Good Luck
Posted by: stevefoxwong

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/01/07 10:21 PM

yesterday i try to bend my body forward after the push away, the speed goes from 14mph to 16 mph. i think my backswing is cut due to my arm cant go too far back. after i try ron clifton slight tilt forward my should to get the free arm swing up, my speed when up and the carry is great. 6 game not even a single pin 10 stand. light hit pocket give strikes too. i miss head pin, the messenger comes back and hit the rest and got a count of 9 left pin 1 standing, lol. i like those messenger, just like my 11.4# helicopter ball hit with pin flying around. the bad about helicopter style is lesser room for error(got to have about 2board accuracy to hit head pin).
Posted by: mkee19

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/02/07 03:20 PM

I wouldnt try to bowl both helicopter style and normal hook. That might cause you to carry bad habits with each style. To each his own...if you can handle it, good for you
Posted by: stevefoxwong

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/03/07 01:20 PM

now i stick to hook style. i switch to helicopter style due to wrist injury and heel injury. now i switch back to hook. i like hook because more excitement.
Posted by: stevefoxwong

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/05/07 02:02 AM

these are the elite helicopter player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFpynA69z4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ktuJOFYIQQ

the advantage is versatile. dry to oily, carry down dont affect the ball path much. with 11-12 pound ball you can see messenger flying around.
Posted by: stevefoxwong

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/05/07 03:14 AM

by the way anyone out there wish to self learn helicopter style, please dont use any ball heavy than 12.0, unless you want to break your elbow finger or wrist.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/05/07 09:52 AM

So the ball slides all the way down the lane. Has a small backup. My questions:
1. Why does one fellow bother adjusting his wrist before the approach?
2. Why does one fellow use a spare ball?
3. One fellow changed balls, was that to get a different slide?
4. Where is the rotation on the ball? Is it spinning like a top?
Posted by: Lefty

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/05/07 09:54 AM

This style tends to do very well on very difficult international conditions, but on anything that gives you a little bit of room, the more western style usually dominates. Their scores don't go up as the condition opens up.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/05/07 11:30 AM

The pocket, high hit, nose, and brooklyn hits all seem to carry. The bowlers weren't too consistent. There must be some spin on the ball. I coudn't tell by the videos. Although I seemed to notice a backup.

What is the difference between this and a straight bowler? Has to be the ball rotation?
Posted by: Lefty

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/05/07 12:06 PM

The ball is spun more like a top and relies on mixing up the pins and defelction

You can see the spin and defelection - http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/VHeliLiv.Htm

The release - http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/vSpinner.htm
Posted by: stevefoxwong

Re: my first bowling video shot - 03/05/07 10:18 PM

the ball slide down the lane, will either hook , backup or go straight depends on the thumb and finger exit sequence. and the drilling whether is it conventional grip or finger tip grip. there are very detail analysis and discussion on chinese forum.

1. not every one turn their wrist before approach, some turn to get high rev rate. Just like Ring finger lead concept.
2. Spare ball is good for very dry condition, in china and taiwan most lane are not oil regularly maybe once a day due to economical reason. that why they hardly can play hook. Some change to spare ball when hitting the back row of pin to prevent the ball from hooking or back up too much. just like the concept of Hook player change to spare ball when hitting pin 10 or pin 7 on different lane condition. Some prefer hard surface for pin action some prefer softer surface to grip the lane . I myself use 800 grid sand particle on medium oil lane. on dry lane my ball basically lost all the energy it needs.
3. They change ball, i think is the ball pin reaction is not ideal. if the ball is too dull, alot of energy is lost when the ball hit the pin. If the ball is too shiny, the ball skid in and didnt grip the lane to increase speed from the rev of the ball. Just like the concept of hook ball. if the ball dont go into roll and skid into the pocket, the hit is very weak. If the ball roll out and lost energy, the hit will be weak. too.
4. the rotation is to have maximum axis tilt. upon release the thumb is face down. To hook player it is regards as too much axis tilt. the oil track is very low, so it dont hook much and the contact is lesser and friction is lesser too, therefore a lot of engergy is store and unslash when hit the pin. the ball weight is only 11-12 pound, it getting the pin action of hook ball 14-16# pin action. Lighter weight helps to rev easier. to light, the carry suffer, therefore mostly use between 11.0-12.0. However this style suffer if playing on heavy pin like PBA gold pin, i heard from top helicopter player.