Working on form

Posted by: NickBell

Working on form - 01/14/17 02:42 PM

I am currently a 210 average bowler in my travel league. However, I am not currently happy with my form(Side note I am a full roller) I would like to fix my footwork and timing, and also fix the issue of myself stepping so far to left on my 3rd step. Any help? thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=momb4ohFwhQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy0s4oPamDE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7-bmMlNKbg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDP1e1IQHH0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPSnbX4Y0Co
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Working on form - 01/14/17 03:57 PM

Walking left is not bad necessarily. When and why may be.

When I watched your videos and stopped them as quick as I can, where you start your ball seems to be part of the issue.

You start pretty much upright with your ball inside of your right shoulder. From there, your ball comes back so late that you actually need to step left and cock your body to clear your 3rd step.

If you stop your video about a half dozen times, the line from where your ball starts and where your ball is at the top, is inside out.

You then redirect, after a slight loop to deliver inside out. Your position at the bottom on the way back and allowing your swing to get so far away from your body makes it difficult to repeat frame after frame.

My opinion, would be, increase your body angle at setup. Start your ball more to your right and let it pass your right hip on its way back just as your second step clears that area. This would give you a slight outside-in line from start to top. Then all you need to do is let it fall back on the same line and let go. No loop, no redirecting.

Watch your videos and notice the position of your body coming into your release. You have lots of spine tilt but no body angle. Your ball should come back and go forward on a straight line or slightly outside in to inside out. Your head should be over that line or even right of that line. It can only be accomplished with body angle and allowing the ball to swing loosely under your right shoulder.

Here's a Slowinski drill;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq6VZXoXMtg

Here's the entire article;

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinskioct10_swing_slot.pdf
Posted by: djp1080

Re: Working on form - 01/14/17 04:26 PM

Boat, I tried to slow the video down, but I guess I don't know how to do that properly.
This fellows swing looks like he's turning his hand inward as it passes his hip on the beginning of the swing. Then he's able to get it back into position for a pretty good release.
It would be much better if there was less hand movement IMHO...
Posted by: W9JAB

Re: Working on form - 01/14/17 04:36 PM

Hi Nick, I'm also a Full Roller, I looked at all 5 of your videos.

I see in vid 1&4 you take 4 steps starting with your right foot.

In vids 2,3 & 5 you take 5 steps starting with your left foot.

If I'm seeing that right, You should choose one or the other.
I would also say to slow it down, place your ball out farther, but lower,working on a smooth arc,and less back swing height. But that's just my two cent's.

After all it's a game of accuracy and repeat-ability, not speed and strength.

Let your ball do the work.
Posted by: NickBell

Re: Working on form - 01/14/17 05:41 PM

thank you for the advice, also W9JAB they are all 5 step deliveries just didn't get the steps on camera on 1 & 4. I've always been able to come back into my slot at the bottom pretty consistently but I want to be more consistent and have more leverage on the ball.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Working on form - 01/14/17 07:38 PM

Most full-rollers do have hand movement, that's why they're full rollers :-)

I was a full-roller when I first started, so have some experience with it. It took me a year to get my track off the thumb-hole. I still have a 6 plus inch PAP and a down adjustment :-) I got off the thumb, but not much :-) I discourage any delivery where the thumb get's to the 9 o'clock position.

When I watched the videos, his position at the bottom on the way back causes way too much physical adjustment to overcome in his last 2 steps. More body angle would alleviate that and free up the arm swing.

To me, the simplest way is to let the ball drop into the empty area vacated by the second step. The ball comes back slightly inside and goes back forward slightly outside.

That slight inside out delivery really frees up the arm, the release and puts the body at the right angles to offset all weight shifts with the trailing leg.

It also allows the bowler to work the inside of the ball. For a full-roller, that may not be needed.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. -- Dennis Miller
Posted by: djp1080

Re: Working on form - 01/14/17 08:20 PM

6 years ago I came back to bowling and had a full roller as well. I'm doing my best to have a semi-roller I guess and the PSO recommended it when I bought my first reactive resin ball. With some coaching I've learned a lot and continue to learn. I fight my natural tendencies that I bring with me to the lanes and one of them is turning my hand inside like it appears to me that Nick does in his videos. If I keep my backswing fairly low without pulling up on it (another bad habit), I have no problem keeping my hand under the ball and behind it like I'd like to have for each and every shot.
Thanks Boat...
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Working on form - 01/14/17 09:15 PM

It's a tough habit to break. Most bowlers don't even realize they do it unless they see film. More surprising, most do it really early, usually before the ball gets back more than a foot or two.

Removing unnecessary movement is one of the quickest ways to improve. Anything that interferes with repeatability needs to be discarded.

The worst part, it's impossible to work the inside of the ball, back to front with the thumb at 9. 'Leverage' is the time between when the thumb comes out and when the fingers follow. With the thumb at 9 and the fingers somewhere between 4 and 5, leverage almost disappears.
Posted by: NickBell

Re: Working on form - 01/14/17 11:39 PM

could you elaborate more on how I could create more body angle? with a video possibly? I know I need to start the ball sooner, however, even when I do start the ball sooner I muscle it until I get to my normal timing. And if I do somehow manage to not muscle it, my feet speed up to compensate for being out of my normal rhythm.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Working on form - 01/15/17 01:19 AM

Here's a video that teaches the technique;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr9lDk848-g

During the demo, notice how Slowinski's foot is always facing straight down the lane, but creates body angle to his right as he sets the ball down next to that foot.

Also notice his head position relative to his ball.

Here's another video about dropping your shoulder to free up your swing;

http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=268
Posted by: W9JAB

Re: Working on form - 01/15/17 11:25 AM

thumbsup Nick, you got a lot of help here thumbsup

BUT THE CORRECT ANSWER IS...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgD9WpAt4M


JOE


.
Posted by: spr3wr

Re: Working on form - 01/17/17 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: NickBell
Quote:
I know I need to start the ball sooner, however, even when I do start the ball sooner I muscle it until I get to my normal timing.
And if I do somehow manage to not muscle it, my feet speed up to compensate for being out of my normal rhythm.


Your footwork is fine but your timing is late. You need to incorporate a hinged swing .

http://www.billspigner.com/pdf/0712_Bill_BJI.pdf
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinskifeb09.pdf

Quote:
I know I need to start the ball sooner, however, even when I do start the ball sooner I muscle it until I get to my normal timing.

Are you saying you will slowdown the swing until your feet catches up? If yes then Take a longer 3rd step most pros do, and that will make the swing feel better at the top of the swing.
And yes your feet will try to go faster in order to stay in your old/late timing. Just something you have to get use to .

One thing I notice was that as you dropped the ball into the swing your hand starts to rotate to the outside of the ball . This makes your swing pop out too far right at the top of your swing. Then you have to pull the ball towards your body in order to to finish with the ball under your head.
http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr3wr/media/Untitled_zpsmyi3779v.png.html?sort=3&o=0

What you need to do is as the ball drops into the swing rotate your hand so that your palm is facing out away from your body.

Google search - bowling pros work the inside of the ball.
http://wiki.bowling chat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Pros_play_the_inside_of_the_ball