Posted by: RGR

Approach - 09/23/16 04:05 PM

Here is my approach. Critiquing allowed
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/23/16 04:20 PM

It's private. Can you make it public?
Posted by: RGR

Re: Approach - 09/23/16 04:30 PM

I'll see what I can do
Posted by: RGR

Re: Approach - 09/23/16 04:34 PM

It says it is public
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/23/16 05:36 PM

When I sign in, it simply says this video is private and adds "Sorry about that." Has anyone else been able to view it?
Posted by: RGR

Re: Approach - 09/23/16 06:15 PM

I'll find out
Posted by: RGR

Re: Approach - 09/24/16 03:38 PM

Try that video again, think it might work
Posted by: djp1080

Re: Approach - 09/24/16 07:30 PM

RGR, Noticed that you're wearing a Mongoose Lifter. I assume that your wrist is weak as this device helps correct for that especially. Next in your stance your feet appear to be placed equally from the foul line, your not bending much at the waste and your ball is held very low. Take a look at this video from the USBC Bowling Academy:

It's recommended that you have a staggered foot position from the start so that your hip is somewhat out of the way when your bowling ball comes down from the backswing. From the video Ron Hoppe shows a swing starting with the ball pretty much from his waste. His forearm is parallel to the lane's approach and his swing is very relaxed.
I watched your footwork and your steps appear quite short. Also, when you're to the point that your ball reaches the release point, you plant your slide foot without nary a slide. It would save your knee on your slide leg (left leg) and give you a much smoother approach to the lane if you'd slide at least a little bit. Very likely your second step should be much longer than what it is now.
Here's another video to take a look at:

Your ball is pretty low in your stance and it's positioned out to the right a bit in your video. It's recommended that the ball be positioned somewhere between your chin and the shoulder joint, not necessarily outside of it.

Hope this helps...
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/24/16 07:37 PM

Speaking of Mongoose, the owner, Steve Adams and I bowl on a Senior Scratch Trios team on Tuesdays. I own a Robby's that he hasn't seen yet :-)
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/24/16 08:08 PM

There's nothing seriously wrong with your approach. Here are some observations and food for thought. I'll list each observation then tie them all together.

Starting with your arm straight down is okay but the way you do it is not. If you stop the rear angle video on your first step, you will see 2 things. One, you have no upper body angles. Two, the ball passes your right leg going inside out.

Step 2 should be directly in front of step 1. Since this doesn't take place, your finishing position at the foul line will be right of where it should be.

As your ball comes back forward, because it was started inside-out, it remains out and then come back down outside-in causing your shot to also be outside-in. The Brooklyn hit could be expected from just watching the first 2 steps.

All of your movements seemed a little bit mechanical. This can be caused by being in front of a camera, or the reasons are more likely that having no upper body angles, you can't get into a athletic position for the final delivery.

Okay, here's how to tie it all back together to get you in a more relaxed athletic position at the point of release.

If you start with your left foot slightly ahead of your right foot, this will open up the front of your upper body before you ever take a step.

Not only should your upper body be angled slightly to the right, your upper body should also be bent forward slightly. The result of these 2 upper body angles are to allow the ball to fall straight back under your right shoulder on a slight outside-in line.

Here are 3 videos to show you how to practice the correct upper body angles.

Your ball should not pass your body coming back until your second step is almost complete and in-line with your first step. This simple rule is what allows your ball to clear your body on an outside-in line coming back. Failure to clear the right leg forces the ball out to the right going back which will force the ball outside-in coming forward.

In real-estate, the 3 rules are location, location, location. In bowling, the 3 rules are relax, relax, relax.

Proper body angles and a relaxed starting position will allow the ball to fall directly backward in a nice relaxed swing slot. done properly, your head will be over your swing slot line. In your current approach, your head is nowhere near your swing line.

Stay relaxed as the ball goes backward and comes forward. Allow the ball to swing freely, don't throw it. The only time you need to do anything is to add a little extra impetus on the ball after your thumb has cleared.

Too often those who start with their arm straight down, lock that arm and do not allow it to relax. That means everything during that arm-swing will be restricted by tight muscles. Relax your hand and that will relax your wrist which will relax your forearm which will relax your elbow, upper-arm and shoulder.

Done properly, you will get more speed, more RPM's, throw more accurately with less effort.

Good Luck!
Posted by: djp1080

Re: Approach - 09/24/16 08:15 PM

I've talked with Steve a couple of times as I had some problems with the Mongoose Lifter. Mine wore out very quickly and he replaced it for me. I ended up using some stuff called Fray Check and dabbed it on the worn materials which helped a lot. The problem was that the straps that keep the device in place were rubbing on one another and wore the material badly. Steve was kind enough to send me a new one once I sent him the original one. I bought a new one, too, but seldom use it any more. The lifter got me in the habit of rolling the ball better with more finger action. I struggled with turning my hand over, but I haven't done that for a while now. Guess I'm getting smarter in my old age...
Posted by: djp1080

Re: Approach - 09/24/16 08:18 PM

Yes, accuracy with less effort is the key!
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/24/16 09:11 PM

Every so often I choose to throw 14 pounds instead of 15. When I do, I have a bad habit of over-turning the ball. Not because I need to, but just because I can :-) It always causes a little pain dead-center in the middle of my right wrist. I wear my Robby's for a few days and then put it away again. I also roll the ball much better with a glove. I probably should use one all the time, but don't.
Posted by: djp1080

Re: Approach - 09/24/16 09:48 PM

Which Robby's wrist device do you have?
I've used a 16 lb. ball since high school days. When I got back into the sport, I bought all 16 lb. gear until about 18 months ago. Anything new is 15 lbs., but my Hy-Road, Lights Out and Byte are 16 lbs. They all feel great and roll well.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/25/16 02:52 AM

The only info that I can find calls it a 'PLUS'. It has a longer wrist support than the others but still has the bent metal that forms to the palm.
Posted by: RGR

Re: Approach - 09/25/16 07:48 AM

I agree I do not slide much. Broke my foot a couple of years ago, and because of the type of break it did not heal properly, balance on that foot has been a problem. During my next practice I will try some of every one thoughts and keep you posted.
Posted by: RGR

Re: Approach - 09/25/16 09:56 AM

I use a wrist support because of a little arthritis in the wrist, use to play a lot of tennis when I was younger. So it looks like I'm going to have to reconstruct my approach. Looks like tough sailing ahead.
Posted by: djp1080

Re: Approach - 09/25/16 10:47 AM

You're making feel like a very lucky guy. I broke a bone just above the ankle while I was in the Navy. They took good care of me. Was in a car accident many years ago and got bounced around quite a bit. Limped from that for quite a while. Other than that I'm doing well.
Sorry to hear about your foot and wrist.
The Mongoose products are probably the best for wrist support and they can help get your fingers in the right position as long as you don't turn your hand in the process. Keep your fingers under the ball throughout the swing and at the release point with your thumb facing towards the wall on the right. Try keeping elbow joint facing towards the pins or in other words don't turn your arm and chicken wing it.
There are two drills that I think I've mentioned before which can get your body used to better releases. One is the foul line drill and the other is the one step drill.
On your set up its recommended to stagger your feet a bit so that your in a more open stance (i.e., your left shoulder is slightly ahead of your ball side shoulder). When you get set up this way, stay that way throughout your approach so that your head and shoulders don't bounce around. Stay relaxed.
Hope this helps...
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/25/16 11:05 AM

Not at all. Your approach is fine. You just need a slight timing adjustment and a little more athletic starting position.

Even if both feet are side by side pointing straight down the lane, your upper torso should be slightly open. In that position, if you just flex your knees slightly and bend at the waist slightly, you'll be in the correct position.

The best bowling approach is one where the bowler walks one foot in front of the other. Many will say that the 3rd step of 5 should go left, but it's really not necessary unless you plan to shoot 4th arrow a lot.

The most important step is step number 2. Your ball timing and that step are what really get you off to a good start. First, that steps needs to cross-over your body and go in front of step 1. Just before the heel of that step touches the approach, your ball should fall backwards into the empty space taking that step has created. This will insure you avoid hitting your leg/hip on the way back.

As the ball falls back into it's swing slot under your shoulder, it should end up slightly left of your right shoulder. If the ball ends up too far behind you, you'll want to close up your upper-torso starting position slightly.

Here's a difficult point. You need to adjust your timing so that the ball is allowed to freely swing back and up to its full height. You need to be patient and you must remain relaxed. Any attempt you make to abbreviate your back-swing will begin a cascade of events that will ruin your delivery.

If you tighten any part of your right arm, every muscle from your hand to your shoulder, neck and back will also tighten. This will then force your forward swing to start at the top of your body instead of with your legs.

If you can stay relaxed, your lower body will continue to move forward while your upper body is at it's apex. From your perspective, you may feel like you're experiencing a little hang-time in your back-swing. That's good. Now, as the ball begins to fall forward all you need to do is create a solid fulcrum with your legs. This is what allows you to post up and deliver the shot on target. Done properly, you'll generate more speed and more leverage without any effort at all.

This simple change to my delivery has added almost 2 MPH to my ball speed. Enough that I've gone back to 15 pounds and its forced me to change some spare lines because I can sail my ball through my old break-points if I'm not careful.

What I describe is not a wholesale change to your approach. It's a slight change in starting position, a slight change in timing and staying relaxed.

Here's a video showing the best in the game doing what I've described.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/25/16 11:11 AM

I was in the Navy too. What was your rating? I was on Navy Swiftboats during Vietnan, hence 82boat69 :-)
Posted by: djp1080

Re: Approach - 09/25/16 11:56 AM

Was in the Navy from 1968 to 75. Got into the reserves and spent a total of 23 years. Retired as E-7 ETC. Active duty was at Great Lakes NTC and Cape Canaveral. Involved in FBM Sub missile tracking.
Did a lot of bowling and softball playing down in FL.
Posted by: 82Boat69

Re: Approach - 09/25/16 08:13 PM

I was in from January 1967 until April 1970. I was a radarman on an aircraft carrier for awhile and then on Swiftboats for a year. I was given an early out coming back from Vietnam. Staying in was never an option. I bowled a little in Bremerton, WA when we were in the yards there, a little at NAS North Island in San Diego, once in Japan and once at Clark AF Base in the Philippines. Most of the places I went didn't even have roads :-) The one time I bowled in Japan was in Tokyo. The place had 100 lanes. Had never seen anything like it.