My first video

Posted by: DocLogic77

My first video - 09/18/10 06:21 PM

I finally figured out how to download video from my phone to my pc so here goes...




My hook has been pathetic the last few sessions and after this taping I think I know why. I seen many problems I don't know exactly how to fix.

1) I bend over at the waist to get low rather than bending the left knee. I suppose I got into this horrible habit because I have two bum knees.

2) My follow through is just odd. I extend way down the lane and it just stops. I know my hand is supposed to come up in a natural half circle as a natural progression of the swing. But, it appears the swing hits a wall at release and it actually feels that way. I have tried to get my hand up through release and just cant. Something is preventing me from doing so.

3) I thought my hand was under the ball. Shoot, I have a terrific wrist support. But somehow I am getting to the bottom right side of the ball on my downswing.

I would assume by me extending down the lane, and my hand being on the right side of the ball...that's what's killing my hook.

4) I wrap my swing around my back. I would have never guessed this without the video.

I need some help desperately as I have no one around this part of the country willing to coach me. And I have been asking around.
Posted by: Charlie98

Re: My first video - 09/18/10 09:57 PM

Not that I'm any authority... but it looks like your forward motion stops abruptly. Your left foot slides in and you lean forward to deliver the ball... and your motion comes to a screeching halt. I think your inability to follow through with your swing is a matter of you trying to keep your balance.

Next time you have someone with you, see if they can vid you from the side, that might give you some additional information on how you are finishing your delivery.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/18/10 10:05 PM

Thanks Charlie I appreciate any insight I can get at this point. I didn't really know how ugly my swing was until I taped it...lol. With that said, I am encouraged because there is alot I can change without a ton of effort. My follow through does stop aburptly and I cant get it to swing further than that. I think you could be right. I think me bending over at finish makes it difficult for my arm to follow through properly.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 09/19/10 07:35 AM

You take four steps, the ball should start with your right foot, it doesn't move until the second step, this puts you a whole step behind where you should be as far as timing goes. The late timing is what is causing you to force the ball down from the top of the swing with your back because you are at the foul line and the ball is still way behind you instead of being at your right hip.

Your knee bend is fine it is your timing and posture that need work. You can always use more knee bend, but I think the amount you have will suffice until you are ready to join the regional tour, then you might need to work on it some more. I have seen much worse as far as knee bend goes on this site believe me.

Focus on starting the ball with your right foot, and let the ball drop into the swing as the right heel touches the floor. You can practice this at home for 10 minutes a day when you aren't at the lanes. Take your stance, put your hand in the ball, take your first step and move the ball at the same time, as your right heel touches the floor, drop the ball into the swing and take the next step as the ball swings by your right leg, keep your left leg ahead and let the ball swing back and catch it and do it again and again until it feels natural. Then go to the lanes and do it there for 10 minutes as a warm up before you start bowling and do it between shots until you are able to start the ball with your right foot comfortably.

Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/19/10 09:14 AM

Thanks Coach that was extremely helpful.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: My first video - 09/20/10 10:47 AM

I agree with CoachJim 100%, it is your late timing (a step to late) that is causing your issues. When you change your timing by starting the movement of the ball with your right foot you will notice an improvement in all areas of your game. Of course, this does not mean that you will suddenly be Chris Barnes, but you will notice the game becomes easier. With the proper timing you will be able to fix what other issues remain, bad timing causes bad results.
Posted by: MikeHL

Re: My first video - 09/20/10 11:55 AM

Doc, I'm sure you will do this anyway...but just to reiterate, please listen to these guys! smile My own videos have captured some truly [email protected] technique (feel free to look through my posts for them, but only if you have a strong stomach -- you'll want to throw up).

Jim, sk8 and others have offered up some very, very helpful advice which I'm using. Along the lines of what sk8 said, I also am no Chris Barnes and never will be, but as a relatively new player, timing is far and away my #1 issue. Largely because of advice I have received here, the feel for it is improving basically every time I bowl.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/20/10 05:28 PM

I want to thank you guys for all of the help. I totally reworked my footwork...moving to a 4 step, not leaning over etc. I also found out how much easier it is to follow through properly when I am not leaning over. First game with this new style I bowled a 179 which for me is my best since being back into the game. I got a lucky 190 years ago. I think my swing looks better...not great but better.

I apologize for the [censored] lighting. Our bowling alley is not condusive to solid video.



What should I work on next?
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 09/20/10 10:56 PM

Still looks the same to me but what do I know.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/20/10 11:32 PM

I respect your opinion so can you please expound? I am now using a 4 step approach and not leaning foward as much through my release. I am now following through with hand near my head. Was I not doing these things? Further explanation would be extremely helpful.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 09/21/10 06:11 AM

Quote:
the ball should start with your right foot, it doesn't move until the second step, this puts you a whole step behind where you should be as far as timing goes etc...see my previous post


Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/21/10 12:11 PM

Thank you for the clarification. I am certainly still struggling with the feel of moving the ball with the right foot. I thought from a feel standpoint I was doing better with it but the video doesn't lie. It will be what I work on exclusively at my next practice. I appreciate your help.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 09/22/10 08:28 AM

I would have been impressed if you fixed your timing that quickly on your own. It took me all 3 days of a three day clinic to do it myself with Ron Clifton standing right there watching me. Timing is one of if not the hardest thing to fix since it effects the entire approach and your feel for it.

Have patients, do the drills I suggested at home every day and at the lanes before bowling as a warm up.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/22/10 04:28 PM

Thanks Jim...I really do appreciate your help. My timing is still a bit off but it feels like it's getting better. I averaged a 157 at todays session and worked mostly on my footwork and timing. There is no doubt this is helping my game.

Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: My first video - 09/22/10 08:16 PM

Timing looks better in steps 1-3 now you just have to learn to wait on the ball as it comes from the top of swing to the release. Right now you are smooth up to the top then you pull it down from the top of the swing, let it free fall and you will notice you will be more accurate, get better hand into the ball (rev rate) and you will see better reaction and carry on the lanes.

You did very well in changing your timing, it looks really good now for the first 3/4 of it, now just finish it off by allowing gravity to bring the ball back to your release point. You can accelerate through the ball, but wait until it gets to your ankle, if you do it before then you are rushing the shot.

This is also one of the reasons why you pull the first two shots left, because as you pull the ball down the hand naturally rotates early to the outside of the ball, causing you to launch it left. If you wait on the ball the hand will ride the ball down to the bottom and then will flip the ball without you having to really do anything to it.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 09/22/10 08:28 PM

Your timing looks better, you need to let gravity swing the ball and your arm instead of you forcing the ball and the swing with your arm and back. Disconnect the muscles and let the weight of the ball swing your arm, don't worry if the ball doesn't hook you can't force the ball to hook, or strike by forcing it down the lane, learn to disconnect your arm and let the ball do the work.

Next time add a shot or two from the side so I can see your timing, swing and posture better.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/22/10 09:23 PM

I really appreciate the advice and words of encouragement. There is no doubt I am really having a problem trusting gravity in my swing. This has been a very hard habit to break. I need to rest the thumb but during my next session I won't worry about score or hooking the ball...just letting gravity do it's thing. I will definitely get a side shot next session Jim. Thanks again for all your help guys.
Posted by: 10PinGaloot

Re: My first video - 09/22/10 10:13 PM

I'm impressed, dude! That is an amazing improvement. keep up the good work.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/22/10 10:42 PM

Thanks Pin. smile
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/25/10 09:50 PM

Tonight was my first night back. I don't have a video because it was just too busy at the alley to mess with it. Also, I'm not sure how much progress I made. What I will say is this...I finally know what people are talking about when they say the ball will feel weightless at a point in the back swing. I probably only got it right on 10% of my shots but I know this advice is where its at. When the ball did feel weightless and I trusted gravity on the way down my shots were dead on the mark.

It did mess with my timing a bit. It was really hard because I felt like I was waiting on my swing to come down...felt very slow. It threw my timing of when I try to put wrist into my shot and on a couple shots I came around almost on top of the ball for a super awkward release.

I did have a guy watching me who offered a few pointers. He just wanted my hand behind the ball. I stopped trying to put any movement on the ball and was a ton more accurate. He then moved me to where my left foot was on board 13 and I was aiming at 4. With no movement of my wrist I was hooking hard from the dry boards and dropping alot of strikes. When I missed, it was because I put muscle into my swing. It's going to take awhile but I'm hoping my next video shows a ton of improvement.

Thanks again for all the help.
Posted by: spr3wr

Re: My first video - 09/26/10 12:01 AM

1) start with a athletic stance and a relax start -




2)Start with a keep a slight tilt and maintain the tilt during the approach
http://www.morichbowling.com/MosCorner/February2004/February2004.htm
http://www.strikeability.com/learn_06.php

3)keep your swing straight in line with your target,relaxing your shoulder during the swing will help. Your back swing goes behind your back.
http://www.kegeltrainingcenter.com/V2/foArticle.aspx?iKodYazi=14

Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 09/26/10 08:59 AM

If you are feeling awkward make sure you are starting the ball with your right foot and letting the ball swing at the same time. It will take a while for this to feel right, but until you grind it in, everything will feel awkward, so have patients and keep working on it.
Posted by: IBowlPaul1969

Re: My first video - 09/28/10 12:20 PM

There has been quite an improvement from your first video to the last.
A couple of small points that might help at the start of the approach: Have your knees flexed slightly (you might be, can't tell with the shorts), sit back on the heels, with more weight on your left foot. As you step, keep both knees bent, don't stand up. Sort of imagine that you are walking like Groucho Marx (a very good bowler, really). That might help smooth the transition to the final step and release.

GOOD LUCK!!
Posted by: Revenator

Re: My first video - 09/28/10 02:30 PM

Doc,
Just like coach Jim said, you take four steps, the ball should pushaway from your body ALL THE WAY on step one, your not doing this.
If you don't like the feel of this, take 5 steps and pushaway on step two, or don't pushaway at all and drop the ball down straight down on step 3.( in the 5 step) But if you stay with 4 steps practice pushing the ball out with step one only, back and forth do it over and over.
Also, it looks like the ball gets to far behind your back,
pause your video's at the height of your backswing, the ball is left of your head. I like how you have the ball lined up with your right shoulder, that's good.
What's causing it getting so far behind your back is you push the ball too far to the right, that causes it's path to swing behind you, not so bad if your a big cranker. But for you, it will cause you to want to pull the ball to make up for it, which in turn will hurt you revs also.
So, try this, when you push the ball forward try to slightly push it to the inside, SLIGHTLY. Do it too much and the ball will swing too far to the outside. Your goal is to get a nice straight armswing. Armswings should be as straight as possible. And that means in relationship to your shoulders. So if you are closed with your shoulders, your armswing is still parallel in relationship to them.
Revenator
Posted by: JackZ

Re: My first video - 09/28/10 03:41 PM

They're all right. The thing is teaching muscle memory. If you do this on the lane...it can get really expensive. You can work this at home "Without the ball". For a 4 step, put your weight on your left foot(for a right-hander) say one and push and step with your right foot at the same time. For a 5 step, step and say 2 and step and push at the same time. I've only seen a couple of videos of people who pushaway on the 3rd step of a 5...don't know about it and don't care.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 09/28/10 06:31 PM

That brings up a question I have had. If my mark is too my right...my push off should be towards that mark from what I have been told. So how do you avoid pushing off right and it going behind your back. Am I supposed to square my shoulders to my target?
Posted by: IBowlPaul1969

Re: My first video - 09/28/10 07:57 PM

OK, check this out, to make it simple for now...first, without your ball, line up with the inside of your LEFT foot just to the LEFT of the center dot. Now, with your feet parallel and facing straight down the lane, put your right hand by your side, pointing straight down. Finally, squat down until your hand hits the floor. When you count the boards between the hand and the inside of your left foot, that will tell you your BASE KEY.
SO...if you BASE KEY is 10 and you want to roll over the FIRST ARROW, going straight up the boards add 5 (first arrow) to your BASE KEY. That equals 15, so stand with the insided of your left foot on 15 and roll over 5. To roll over 10 you would stand 20...and so on.
For now, looking at your ball roll, stay square to the line, you aren't really swinging the ball that much.
Make sure in your set up that the ball is just to the outside of your body. If it is on the inside of your body you have to push it to the side, which makes it swing in a plane behind your back.
Posted by: Revenator

Re: My first video - 09/29/10 02:19 AM

Doc,
If your target is to your right, you shouldn't have to avoid pushing the ball to the right, but straight ahead at your target. Your shoulders should be square to your target. If you are a down and in player and don't swing the ball that much, your shoulders will be square to the lane and your target.
Cleaning up your timing first, with your first step should be priority one, this may clean up some of the swing and alignment issues. Because when timing is off, our bodies try to accomidiate and make up for it in other places. So fix the first step pushaway then worry about the alignment and swing path next.
Revenator
Posted by: spr3wr

Re: My first video - 09/29/10 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By: IBowlPaul1969
OK, check this out, to make it simple for now...first, without your ball, line up with the inside of your LEFT foot just to the LEFT of the center dot. Now, with your feet parallel and facing straight down the lane, put your right hand by your side, pointing straight down. Finally, squat down until your hand hits the floor. When you count the boards between the hand and the inside of your left foot, that will tell you your BASE KEY.
SO...if you BASE KEY is 10 and you want to roll over the FIRST ARROW, going straight up the boards add 5 (first arrow) to your BASE KEY. That equals 15, so stand with the insided of your left foot on 15 and roll over 5. To roll over 10 you would stand 20...and so on.
For now, looking at your ball roll, stay square to the line, you aren't really swinging the ball that much.
Make sure in your set up that the ball is just to the outside of your body. If it is on the inside of your body you have to push it to the side, which makes it swing in a plane behind your back.


You also have to add your drift if you have one.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/02/10 07:32 PM

I am a bit frustrated at this point. I have hit a wall. I had to take out Ron's magic carpet because my thumb was shreaded and I don't trust my grip. It's causing me not to trust gravity and I can't seem to correct it. I shot a 178 tonight and for me that's a really good game but the rest were crap. I was forcing the ball, missing spares, coming around the ball much much too early. I do think my timing is much improved but that is about the only thing encouraging about my game right now. I would have posted a video but I'm still doing the same things wrong so there really isn't a point.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/02/10 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: IBowlPaul1969
OK, check this out, to make it simple for now...first, without your ball, line up with the inside of your LEFT foot just to the LEFT of the center dot. Now, with your feet parallel and facing straight down the lane, put your right hand by your side, pointing straight down. Finally, squat down until your hand hits the floor. When you count the boards between the hand and the inside of your left foot, that will tell you your BASE KEY.
SO...if you BASE KEY is 10 and you want to roll over the FIRST ARROW, going straight up the boards add 5 (first arrow) to your BASE KEY. That equals 15, so stand with the insided of your left foot on 15 and roll over 5. To roll over 10 you would stand 20...and so on.
For now, looking at your ball roll, stay square to the line, you aren't really swinging the ball that much.
Make sure in your set up that the ball is just to the outside of your body. If it is on the inside of your body you have to push it to the side, which makes it swing in a plane behind your back.


That makes sense but is it different if your first step is in front of your left? I clear a path for the ball to drop now by my first step being directly in front of the left. Does this change the calculations a bit?
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/02/10 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Revenator
Doc,
If your target is to your right, you shouldn't have to avoid pushing the ball to the right, but straight ahead at your target. Your shoulders should be square to your target. If you are a down and in player and don't swing the ball that much, your shoulders will be square to the lane and your target.
Cleaning up your timing first, with your first step should be priority one, this may clean up some of the swing and alignment issues. Because when timing is off, our bodies try to accomidiate and make up for it in other places. So fix the first step pushaway then worry about the alignment and swing path next.
Revenator


My timing is certainly better. I think my alignment is better now. Where I am struggling is with trusting gravity through my shot. When I am really having a good game I feel my ball get weightless at the top swing...come down by gravity and at the last second before release I accelerate a bit through to my upswing. When I feel this I know it's going to be a good ball. But, I so rarely get it right. I suppose it's just going to take alot of practice.
Posted by: Rocket

Re: My first video - 10/03/10 07:01 PM

A lot of practice is right, I am working on that same thing(free swing) and have been all summer and now into the fall.

Good thing is like me you can feel it when its right and in time you will feel it more often then not and you will trust it. Keep up the hard work its a long fun road.
Posted by: IBowlPaul1969

Re: My first video - 10/06/10 10:19 AM

Don't get frustrated Doc! Get with a good coach for some one-on-one work. I know you said there isn't anyone near you, but you could maybe take a road trip one day to meet with somebody.

I live in Fort Wayne, IN and drove to Detroit, MI for a lesson with Michelle Mullins. Four hours of driving for a 45 minute lesson, am I crazy? No. The information provided was valuable and I have worked on it for a year now.

When I started really trying to become a good bowler I practiced 8 games or more each day, 6 days a week. It took two years but I went from a 160 average to a 220 average. I don't know what your personal bowling goals are, but to get there requires work.

Hang in there, have fun and keep trying.
Posted by: Raydee

Re: My first video - 10/07/10 07:05 PM

This thread has really helped me understand what I am doing wrong with my shots and why I am not consistant at all when I bowl. When I throw my ball I always end up off balance and have to step with my right foot to the right. I always thought I was just way off on my timing but now after reading this thread and watching a vid of me bowling I see that I am trying to throw the ball way to hard and I am not letting the weight of the ball and gravity do the work for me. Its no wonder why my arm hurts after I bowl. I am going to start working on my swing tonight, i am sure I will bowl horribly but if I can get the swing right I am sure everything else will fall into place.
Posted by: Rocket

Re: My first video - 10/07/10 10:12 PM

Raydee, that is exactly what is happening with me. I need to get a new video up so you could see but my form was horrible in my older videos. This summer coach Jim and others told me I needed to work on one thing at a time, so I decided on my swing and now a lot of the other issues I was going to work on have fixed themselves. Like balance at the line, posting up my entry angle spare shooting etc etc.

I have a long way to go but I am a lot closer then I was because I quit working on to much at one time.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/08/10 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: IBowlPaul1969
Don't get frustrated Doc! Get with a good coach for some one-on-one work. I know you said there isn't anyone near you, but you could maybe take a road trip one day to meet with somebody.

I live in Fort Wayne, IN and drove to Detroit, MI for a lesson with Michelle Mullins. Four hours of driving for a 45 minute lesson, am I crazy? No. The information provided was valuable and I have worked on it for a year now.

When I started really trying to become a good bowler I practiced 8 games or more each day, 6 days a week. It took two years but I went from a 160 average to a 220 average. I don't know what your personal bowling goals are, but to get there requires work.

Hang in there, have fun and keep trying.


That's always a possibility. But, I am hoping to move sometime soon...near Savannah Ga. I would assume there would be a few coaches in that area.

I currently bowl 20-25 games a week. It seems that all my body can handle at this point. I would like to average 200+ at some point in the future. I think it would be cool to be able to bowl in some professional tornaments. I have no idea how obtainable that goal is at this point but I know I'm willing to put in the work. And I will do what I am told by a coach.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/10/10 11:04 AM

Guys, my game is certainly improving. I had my best session yet. I feel much more in control, hitting more marks, spares and feel smoother. The game is coming easier. With that said, looking at my videos I am still really wrapping that swing around my back. I was making a conscious effort not to do so but the video didn't lie. I didn't have a single swing that didn't come around my back. I have no idea how to keep it along the swing plane. I don't know if I'm opening up my shoulders to take it along this path or what. Any tips or suggestions to help me in this area would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/12/10 06:18 PM

I was working on some of the tips in the pro groove thread. It helped a bit...not wrapping the ball around my back as much but still not in the groove. I'm also having some serious balance issues. Anyways here is a video update. I'm not sure I improved much but here it is anyways.



sorry about the sorry side view but we tried



Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 10/13/10 06:36 AM

Your head is more still than it was previously, so I am seeing some improvement.

The side shots are hard to see, if you could improve the lighting by using night vision if your camera has it and keeping you from head to toe from start to finish in the shot it will help.

You are bending forward too much at the waste in your slide, try lowering your hips and sitting more into the slide. Also try getting your foot more under your body in the slide, it is still going off to the left a bit this causes you to lose balance a little and pull the ball across your body. Keep your weight on your right foot more in the power step and wait for the left foot to slide toe first under the center of your body before you fully transfer your weight to the left foot.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/13/10 10:50 AM

Thanks Coach. That is indeed helpful. I suppose that's why I want to fall to my right after every shot. I have a few videos where I about completely fall over. Whoever said this game is easy doesn't know what they are talking about...lol. I will work on it and see where I am in a couple weeks.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/18/10 03:13 PM

I broke a couple personal records today. I got my first 200+ and broke 500 for the first time. I'm pretty stoked.

201-194-133

This was two of my strikes in the tenth of my 201 game. I was mainly working on my balance issues and I seemed much more steady today.

Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 10/19/10 06:31 AM

Your timing is still late, as your second step compresses, the ball should be past your right hip, it is by your right leg. You are taking too long from where you start the ball until you drop it into the swing. You can see your pacing reflects the slow swing, your steps count 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 when it should be 1 and 23 slide. You don't need to think of the steps, if you drop the ball into the swing at the right point your feet will pick up the pace naturally.

Watch this video if you haven't seen it already, I watch it before I go to the lanes as it is the most important thing you can learn or teach someone in bowling technique:

Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/19/10 09:21 AM

Thanks for that Jim. It confirms what I have been feeling with my timing. I noticed when I get the ball down into my swing quicker I don't put any muscle energy into the ball and my accuracy climbs. As soon as I mess that up I muscle it and pull it. I have been working on trying to drop it at a 45 degree angle and get it into my swing quicker. Obviously, I am not really getting that done at this point. My timing is still my biggest issue and probably the hardest part of my game to "get". Thank you.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 10/20/10 06:20 AM

Timing is the hardest thing to fix on your own, it can be right one time and wrong the next and feel the same to you, this is why it's important to get a good coach to help you through this.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/30/10 09:37 AM

I have been working and working on my timing. It feels better but not sure how close I am. Getting the ball into my swing motion quicker really threw off my game for about a week. Now it's feeling a bit more natural. I would assume it's still off but I thought I would post another video.

The first ball felt good but I left a couple pins. I am extremely uncomfortable with the 10 pin and throwing to spares to my right. I gutter more times than I don't. I'm not sure what my issue is but you can see on the second swing I lost my balance and couldn't keep it on the lane.



Posted by: shadowcat

Re: My first video - 10/30/10 12:50 PM

Doc,

You might want to check this out for your spare game. Helped me alot.

http://www.tenpinbowling.org/view.php?page=the_game.spare_systems
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/30/10 01:13 PM

That is indeed helpful. The main issue I have is when I have to turn towards the right gutter. I think it has to do with me naturally opening up my shoulders even on strike swings. I think it's exaggerated when I must go for those right pins. However, I'm not complete sure and I haven't found a cure for my right spare woes.
Posted by: spr3wr

Re: My first video - 10/31/10 12:26 AM

1)While in the stance you should not see the ball from the back view until your 2nd step. Start the ball inline with your right chest at waist height.



2) your pushaway should drop over your right knee on your 1st step.Take a long 1st step (think heel toe) A free armswing will take over from there.


Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/31/10 06:23 AM

I certainly want all the advice I can get. But, I have heard different things with starting position of ball. I have heard from some that the ball should be positioned where your swing plane will be. When you see Chris Barnes his starting position is more to the outside. I know others start where you are describing.

So, are you saying to start waist height under right chest dropping it over right knee? How do you avoid hitting your right knee? I apologize for being ignorant on this topic I just don't quite understand what you are asking me to do.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: My first video - 10/31/10 07:48 AM

Doc, your head, the ball and your right foot should be in a vertical line. Straight down. Your right foot should step in front of your left. That gets your hip and knee out of the way of the ball.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: My first video - 10/31/10 09:07 AM

Quote:
I certainly want all the advice I can get. But, I have heard different things with starting position of ball. I have heard from some that the ball should be positioned where your swing plane will be. When you see Chris Barnes his starting position is more to the outside. I know others start where you are describing.

So, are you saying to start waist height under right chest dropping it over right knee? How do you avoid hitting your right knee? I apologize for being ignorant on this topic I just don't quite understand what you are asking me to do.


If you were to look at Barnes from behind, you wouldn't see the ball until his second step. The ball is perfectly in line with his right foot, and his head in the set up. The ball goes over the right foot, but it only feels that way, the right foot actually crosses in front of the left foot, the ball starts off in line with your target, then drops back into the swing. You swing the ball out to the right first, your target would have to be on the next lane to be swinging it like you are.

You seem to be having alignment issues and don't seem to have a feel for where your target line is or the path you should walk, or what your target should even be in the first place.

You can try my system, it is a bit advanced since it requires you to learn to throw a straight ball with very little (not more than 3 boards of hook):

To learn to throw the ball straight, stand on the 7 board with your left foot (right handed), aim at the two or three board at the arrows and try to throw the ball straight up the gutter and pick off the 10 pin. This exercise will help teach you to stay behind the ball and throw a straight ball. When you have developed a good feel for this, try doing it with your most hooking ball and see if it still goes straight, if so mission accomplished, if not your hand is still turning and keep working on it.

My spare system uses the middle arrow for all but a few spares. Start by lining up to pick the 10 pin out of the rack using a straight shot across the middle arrow, take note of where your feet are. Keep trying until you can pick the 10 pin out of a full rack of pins when ever you want. Like I said pay attention to where your feet are, as this is where all of your other spares are based on.

The pins line up with the arrows, 10 pin is on 5, 6 is on 10, 3 and 9 are on 15, the 1 and 5 are on 20, the 2 and 8 are on 25, the 4 is on 30 and the 7 is on 35.

There is a two at the pins to one at the arrows ratio, so if you move your feet one board to the right and aim at the same target, the ball will finish 2 to the left. Lets say you lined up to pick the 10 out of the rack and you were standing on 35 and going across 20 at the arrows, to hit the 9 pin you move your feet 5 boards to your right and stand on 30, the 8 pin you would stand on 25 and the 7 you would stand on 20. You will have to experiment as everyone's body is different, some move 6 boards between pins others move 7, I move 7 to start with from 37 for my 10 to 30 for my 9 then 25 for my 8 and 20 for my 7.

The 4,5,and 6 pins are half way between the 10 and 9, 9 and 8, 8 and 7.

The only thing I shoot different is washout splits (1,2,4, and 10) and buckets (2,4,5,and 8) I shoot them standing 32/33 and going straight up 25.

If you are having a problem with the left side spares it usually means your shoulders are not square to the 7 or what ever spare you are shooting. It also probably means you are walking and lining up straight with the boards instead of square to your target.
Posted by: spr3wr

Re: My first video - 10/31/10 10:03 AM

Thanks Dennis Michael and CoachJim for fully explaining the proper ball setup in the stance and pushaway.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 10/31/10 10:55 AM

Thanks guys...I appreciate the clarification.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 11/03/10 03:47 PM

I just wanted to thank you guys for the adjustment in my starting ball position. My swing feels more natural and I'm more accurate. I bowled my new high today 220, 8 strikes 1 open. I don't have a video because my phone battery was about dead. Just wanted to express a word of thanks.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 11/07/10 01:11 PM

I have been trying to implement what all the coaches here have been teaching me. The biggest jump in my game has been recently with just the new starting ball position...making sure my head the ball and my right knee are lined up. I hope the timing looks better...I have been working on it really hard. Everytime I'm missing my marks I first look at my timing...getting the ball into my swing earlier. I want to thank all the coaches for their advice. I would like a little feedback on my current swing.

Posted by: johnny2times

Re: My first video - 11/07/10 07:30 PM

Once you put your hand in the ball take a deep breath then go. You take way too much time on the approach. Only bad things happen when you take that much time.
Posted by: spr3wr

Re: My first video - 11/07/10 07:55 PM

1)Taking too long at setup 3seconds is long enough you took 9 seconds.
2)Pushaway over right knee to keep bowling arm closer to body.

Looks better keep up the good work.

Anyone else see anything I missed?
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 11/08/10 02:13 PM

Thanks...yes I notice that in the video I pushed out slightly to the right of my knee. I worked on that today and had another series better than the one before. I really struggle through well oiled lanes and couldn't really get my strikes going but my spares were dead on today. 157-167-172

I really appreciate your advice. Besides the whole timing advice I would say this minor adjustment added more pins to my game than any other changes.
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 12/03/10 05:42 PM

Have been struggling as of late and not quite sure why. Sorry for the video quality but thought I would post it anyhow.

Posted by: spr3wr

Re: My first video - 12/03/10 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: DocLogic77
Have been struggling as of late and not quite sure why. Sorry for the video quality but thought I would post it anyhow.



Well if you roll a strike then it's all good smile

Seriously, what have you been struggling with? Your timing better.The main issue I see from the poor lighting and bad camera angle is your upper body drops (forward tilt)as your releasing the ball then raises after the release. Your still sliding 2 feet behind the foul line. And you ball is landing before the foul line not past. Either take longer steps (1ST AND 2ND STEP ONLY) or move up so your foot stops about 2-3 inches from the foul line.
The camera should be over your right shoulder (right handed bowler).
Posted by: DocLogic77

Re: My first video - 12/03/10 08:27 PM

I have been struggling with accuracy and carry as of late. My shots that look very clean are not dropping strikes. Still having some issues missing to the right.

I didn't realize how far behind the foul line I am when I release. That is something I will work on.

Thanks for the advice.