First video

Posted by: MikeHL

First video - 02/09/10 03:46 AM

First of all, boo having to convert the video from QuickTime to MPEG-4 before YouTube would have anything to do w/it. I apologize for the [email protected] quality. That's the reason for it. The QuickTime movie that iMovie produced on my Mac isn't grainy at all.

Anyway, I saw 5-6 things in my technique that I had no idea I was doing...starting w/the backswing! nut Started bowling tenpin in earnest in October. I must have really been feeling my oats on Sunday. Looks like I wanted to tear the cover off both balls even more than usual, which is saying something, bc I usually want to do that quite a bit.

Edit: Yes, that's "The Hustle" starting at 0:40. lol.
Posted by: Dennis Michael

Re: First video - 02/09/10 04:59 AM

Man, I got tired watching that film. You are really quick with your feet. Slow them down. You seem to use your arm a lot. Just let the ball fall on itsown and don't pull it up into the backswing. Your back swing plane is all over. You would be better off to shorten it. That's not a candlepin ball, you don't need the speed or muscle to knock down the pins. Let the ball roll.

otherwise, a coordinated start.
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: First video - 02/09/10 08:03 AM

Your horrible posture is causing 90% of your problems. Do not bend forward farther than your knees. Your upper body is so far forward you can't even hit your target. Keep your upper body over your knees and sit into the slide.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: First video - 02/09/10 08:29 AM

Ditto CoachJim - I think if you keep your upper body more upright, you will gain both accuracy and power on the ball. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple other things cleaned up as a result of concentrating on this.
Posted by: trekguy

Re: First video - 02/09/10 09:24 AM

Agree 100% with Dennis, CoachJim, and cgeorg...your candlepin experience is going to make it a bit tougher, but you need to slow down, and you need to have your shoulders up. I'm assuming that you want the ball to curve at some point... it's next to impossible to get anything on the ball when your shoulders are that far forward. Try this... stand up straight on the approach, and go through your delivery without bending at the waist... at all. When you get to the slide step, just bend your knee to get down a little. I guarantee you will feel like Frankenstein's monster doing this... but you need to do something out of your muscle memory zone, and to get out of the shoulders-down habit. There is no lob line in tenpin bowling, so don't worry about lofting the ball. And make sure that your approach is at your normal walking pace, and that you are letting the ball swing from your arm like a pendulum... tenpin balls are 15lbs, not 2 1/2, they generate plenty of their own momentum. Don't worry about the pins, or what the ball does on the lane... just the approach. Remember that this approach will not be the end result, this is just a way to work back to a happy medium. Would be helpful to see a video of this drill.
Posted by: MikeHL

Re: First video - 02/09/10 09:52 AM

I find it very interesting that my coach has not said anything to me about the lean, something that jumped out immediately to several of you. Believe it or not, that's a lot more upright than my candlepin style was. I actually found over the years that in addition to knee bend, the farther forward I bent at the waist, the better control I had. My style looked something like a swimmer on the starting block, and I've never seen anyone else who did anything like that.

Of course, that ball doesn't have enough mass to screw up your balance if your center of gravity is that far forward, nor does it have enough mass to screw up the swing if you whip it. I know when I'm not standing on the approach that I should take the arm out of it, but so far that doesn't translate to slowing anything down. undecided Thanks!
Posted by: lmfcoa

Re: First video - 02/09/10 09:58 AM

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I have to agree with the others here about your posture. Fix that and I think many things will improve. In regards to coach what does he have you working on? Maybe he sees something that needs to be addressed prior to a posture fix or that is causing the poor posture and we are all missing it.
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: First video - 02/09/10 10:02 AM

lmf, Mike has mentioned that the coach is having him work on slowing down his footwork a bit, to stop rushing the line.

I think the footwork is a symptom of the upper body being so far out ahead of the lower body - you have to run to keep from falling on your face!
Posted by: lmfcoa

Re: First video - 02/09/10 10:04 AM

Edit - need more coffee
Posted by: MikeHL

Re: First video - 02/09/10 10:06 AM

Hehe. No, don't worry about it. When it comes to instruction on how to do something, I'm the sort of person who needs to hear the same thing 4-5-6 times before it starts to sink in. Been like that all my life.

My coach has most recently had me working on my release, but I see right now that that was most likely a mistake. I've been wondering why I can't generate any hook earlier down the lane than 50 feet. I had no idea my bend at the waist affected that.
Posted by: MikeHL

Re: First video - 02/09/10 10:17 AM

Originally Posted By: cgeorg
lmf, Mike has mentioned that the coach is having him work on slowing down his footwork a bit, to stop rushing the line.

I think the footwork is a symptom of the upper body being so far out ahead of the lower body - you have to run to keep from falling on your face!

Yeah, the footwork was what he had me work on in our first session. He made no mention of the bend at the waist either then or last week, when he had me work on release. seeingstars

What trekguy suggested will probably help a lot. I am worried about loft. In the version of bowling I came from, loft = very bad idea, and outright illegal if it's 10 feet or more. Hook = very bad idea. The muscle memory I spent 15 years practicing helped me avoid both of those. Unfortunately, those things don't translate to tenpin, and I'm at a loss for what I should do instead.
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: First video - 02/09/10 10:42 AM

Mike, I don't think its just the upper body lean that is causing you to not hook the ball until 50 feet down the lane. Rushing to the line is also affecting that. Because you are throwing the ball so fast you are just sending it through the break point as opposed to throwing it too the break point. Right now the ball is just going so fast that it has no time to react to the friction, as you work more and more you will gain more leverage on the ball (with better body angle) and more hook down the lane.
Posted by: trekguy

Re: First video - 02/09/10 11:11 AM

Try the stand up drill, and see if you can get slowed down. It will feel like you're starting from scratch but that's ok. You have natural timing, and that will sort itself out. IMO, the release is the last thing to work on.
Posted by: Domokun

Re: First video - 02/10/10 02:07 AM

I don't think you need a drill cuz I'm 100% with Jim about posture being 90% of your problem.

He said to stand straighter in the approach and sink into the slide,'s easily done just by lightly pulling and pushing your shoulders (lats pull, traps push) down and into your back slightly--immediately, your chest'll be out, head and hands come up, and ta da! Your torso is now perpendicular to the floor. Now, soften knees and the weight will move from the toes to mid/back of the foot. Don't put all the weight into the heels. Just enough.

Jim taught me that if you start your torso like that in the approach, you'll finish the same way with head looking up and out in front of you, shoulders down away from the ears.

Once you do that, I'm betting dollars to donuts that this'll slow you down, too. Only makes sense that if you start forward, you're only going to go quicker.

Anyway, look at the timing on you! I'd kill for natural timing like you. Pair this with better posture, and you'll be seeing huge improvements immediately.
Posted by: MikeHL

Re: First video - 02/10/10 02:56 AM

Thanks again, all of you. I'll try it in warmup in league tomorrow night and if I can grasp it right away, I'll stick w/it for the night. It'll definitely get some work when I practice Sunday morning. (Won't get to do it Friday bc my new home for Friday night practice is turning itself into a comedy club for the night.) I think I'm leaving the video camera at work this time for Sunday. It'll return to the lanes w/me soon, but I want to get some work in on this first.
Posted by: Reconbbs

Re: First video - 02/10/10 03:48 AM

As I was saying earlier about your ball speed. You are coming up to the line way to fast. Your basically throwing a straight ball right now but hey, keep your head up and keep on working on it. I understand the vast difference between candlepin and 10 pin bowling. Last time I went candlepin I shot a 68 and it messed up my 10 pin game for at least a week. Haha
Posted by: CoachJim

Re: First video - 02/10/10 07:34 AM

Won't get to do it Friday bc my new home for Friday night practice is turning itself into a comedy club
for the night

Who is the comedian, if you say Rich Vos I am going to LMAO.

I would look into getting a new coach if I was you. A good coach rarely ever works on foot work speed, as this is the end result of posture, too far forward = too much speed, too upright = not enough speed. Your coach should have picked up on your bad posture right away, unless it is a candle pin coach and doesn't know 10 pins that well.
Posted by: MikeHL

Re: First video - 02/10/10 09:48 AM

It's some guy who's apparently been on Comedy Central a few times but whom I've never heard of. Wish I could remember his name.

No candlepins here, Jim, so that's not the problem. Since all of you have pointed out what you have, the thought of a new coach has occurred to me more than once, too. Looks like I need to ask around some more.
Posted by: Fpurhe

Re: First video - 02/10/10 03:12 PM

Yes, you will be surprised with the lack of knowledge some coaches have. The coach I had at first never saw anything too majorly wrong. Then I found a new coach when I joined my high school team. Not even 5 minutes and she noticed a lot of problems my other "Coach" failed to find.

Posted by: MikeHL

Re: First video - 02/11/10 12:06 AM

OK, so I made myself stand up on every shot in league tonight. I let loose w/quite a few double-dribbles from dropping the ball smack on the foul line, maybe 6 each in the first 2 games. Managed to cut that to 1 in game 3, which not incidentally was quite a bit better than the other 2.

All of you were right about how this would feel. Alien. It feels alien to me -- it flies in the face of everything I did in candlepin. Only one way to get around that, right?
Posted by: Calvin Pistorio

Re: First video - 02/11/10 07:37 AM

Well two ways, but I think the second way is not an option. The first is obviously practice, practice, and more practice. The other is just to quit, but like I said I don't think that is an option here. LOL.