my video's

Posted by: spectral

my video's - 01/19/10 08:29 AM

i posted these in another thread but i thought i'd make a new thread completely with movies of myself. So fire away with the critiques, don't be afraid to insult me, i know there's a lot of work to be done.

Just for the info i'm still working on the back swing, as you can see from the old video i had no backswing at all, and i'm developing it little step by little step. I'm a naturally very stiff person

so i have trouble getting the backswing to a high point without opening up my shoulders to the extreme, and i'd rather not lean towards the open shoulders of the crankers because i start turning my body as well then causing all sorts of bad things

my old bowling style (June 2009):

my newer bowling style (oktober 2009):

my form has changed a bit since october but all comments are welcome on the second style. I will try to make a new one soon.

i watched myself bowl a lot but i didn't really "watch" if you know what i mean. What i saw now was that i stay a bit behind the ball (not perfect but sometimes it's OK) when in the backswing but i get around it immediately after the downswing starts. I tend to pop up at the foul line in the vids but it's much better now (not gone but its a lot better).

anyone got any other suggestions to increase the rev rate? is it possible to release the ball with a broken wrist even when using a wrist device? because some people say i do that...

comments welcome
Posted by: Time-To-Roll

Re: my video's - 01/19/10 11:10 AM

Excellent set of videos. The ones from the front are very good.
You do start the ball out to your right, but elbow is inside which is good. Ball gets maybe too far behind your back. You seem to take a big heel to toe step, instead of a slide. Your release is more on the side of the ball.
You are interested in trying different things, so if you have
not read articles by Joe Slowinski check out the one on throwing a backup ball. This will give you a whole different feel, closer to how the pros. are throwing the ball. www.bowlingknowledge.inf.
Just my observations. Good luck.

Time To Roll
Posted by: sk8shorty01

Re: my video's - 01/19/10 11:16 AM

I will say I think you could increase your back swing height, leverage at the bottom of swing, accuracy, and popping up at the line all by eliminating some of your upper body tilt. Most bowlers attempt to be somewhere in the 15 degrees of upper body tilt, I would estimate you are closer to 40 degrees. This limits what you can do to the ball because you are not sending your bodies momentum into the ball at release, you are sending your momentum into your toes of your slide foot. This is why your body has to "spring up", its recoiling from all the momentum going into the floor, stopping your slide, then "regurgitating" back up to your shoulders.

Adding leverage adds power, with power means you can add revs. By leaning over you kill the power of the ball because not only does your release timing shrink in length but the ball is being driven into the lane instead of onto the lane. The high impact of the shot will actually "break" the balls rotation and cause it to flatten out.

Your back swing looks much better, although I think getting rid of some of the tilt will allow your body to relax a little bit more. You want to look like you are walking to the line, as if you were walking down the sidewalk. If you do not walk down the sidewalk like you bowl then you are probably doing something you don't need to be doing.

Good luck and congrats on the already huge improvements. Keep it up and you will continue to get better and shoot bigger and better scores. There are a few other "ticks" I noticed but I think most important would be fixing the shoulders getting out over your feet. Without good balance you cannot repeat shots.
Posted by: TenPin_

Re: my video's - 01/19/10 11:44 AM

I agree on the forward lean being too much, that was the first thing I noticed too, and then the popping up at the line (as was mentioned likely due to how much you lean). You actually finish in a pretty good position after you have popped up, your back is straight and you have a slight lean / tilt which are good, though you could use a little more knee bend. During your approach, try not to get much more lean or tilt than what you have when you are posting your shot, push into your slide a bit more to get better knee bend, and see what happens. Your last two steps are pretty quick, I'm not sure if they are too quick but that might be part of why you step into your slide instead of pushing into it.
Posted by: RDubYa

Re: my video's - 01/19/10 12:52 PM

OK, Spectral, here are my observations and comments for experimentation. Others may not agree and that is certainly also welcomed.

Your footwork seems a bit short and choppy for a person your size and you end your approach a significant distance from the foul line. This could be a product of your short backswing. Usually "the body follows the ball" so to speak.

I also noticed that you appear to be young and athletic at age 24, yet you are wearing a large wrist brace. Do you have any physical limitations or health problems that require the brace? If not, I think you might consider bowling without it - that will allow for more flexibility in your wrist at the time of release which could increase your rev rate and roll.

In the setup, it appears that almost all of the weight of the ball is in your bowling hand with the brace. This would cause the muscles in your bowling hand, wrist and forearm to tighten and this does not usually promote a free armswing. I have a feeling that if I grabbed your forearm during your setup I would feel tight contraction in all of your arm muscles.

I would suggest trying to move most of the ball weight to your non-bowling hand in the setup and try to relax your grip, wrist and forearm. This will set you up to have a more relaxed armswing which will most likely take a natural arc into a higher backswing. A tense wrist and forearm will also fatigue more easily over the course of a set or tournament.

Finally, it is also important to let the ball fall from the top of the backswing via gravity rather than muscle control. I don't see that in some of your videos.

PBA player Bill O'Neill has a neat tip on the Kegel Training Center website. He says that the best bowling tip he ever received was "not to pull the ball down from the top of the backswing". You can see his tip at the link below:

Let us know if any of these suggestions are helpful. I believe that a more free armswing with a natural arc and absence of muscle control will help your game and also give your footwork a more natural and smooth approach. You obviously love the sport and want to improve your game. Posting your videos will hopefully continue the process. I would also recommend working with a coach in your area, who can observe your entire game first hand.

Good bowling!
Posted by: spectral

Re: my video's - 01/19/10 02:12 PM

i think i'll try to torso rotation exercise by Slowinski.

torso rotation is what i need to create a more fluent and higher backswing and also allows me to keep my hand more behind the ball

good idea?
Posted by: Time-To-Roll

Re: my video's - 01/19/10 03:20 PM

Keeping weight of ball in left hand. This is something I did not read in a book. What helps me is to let the ball just hang from my right hand at my side.Like from a rope. Then with my left hand reach under and lift all the ball weight up and into my stance position. I can hold the ball at any height I want. I lead the ball out with all the weight sitting in my left hand then transfer ball to the right hand as it drops into my swing.So easy to repeat.Also a good preview for feel of the weight of ball in your right hand at the bottom of the swing.
Good Luck, Time To Roll

Posted by: spectral

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 01:36 PM

been working on the release at home, burying the ball in the pillow. I can pull off a release i'm really happy with around 40-50% of the time. I need to see it spin in mid air to know i was actually putting some revs on it. When i release it a tad too early it hits the pillow too soon not showing me if it had any revs on it.

been working on the 2 step pushaway from slowinski and tried another approach. Filmed it (very bad quality i know, i don't have a good camera (yet)). It didn't feel like a completely free swing yet alltho my backswing height seems to be at the exact same point 4 times.

let me know what you guys think, i do realize i need a lot of torso rotation to get to that point but i noticed some good players do that as well. I tried the torso rotation before but i just ended up putting my ball in the gutter everytime, i think also because of the muscled swing, muscling it back a tad to the outside and not being able to correct. It's very hard to see my hand due to the [censored] quality but i think i am cupped till i reach my ankel. I even seem to bend my elbow a little like Smith does and i was actually trying to keep it straight.

i think it looks better, let me know what you guys think:

Posted by: cgeorg

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 01:42 PM

Looks like you're squeezing and stopping the swing at the one point that most people have the hardest time making it free. My advice: don't swing the ball at home, you're just going to learn bad habits. Do 1 steps at the alley.
Posted by: spectral

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 01:48 PM

well the 2 step pushaway slowinksi describes is meant to be practiced at home, that's why i was trying it.

Another reason why i tried it is because i seem to be more able to slow my feet down when trying the approach at home then when i'm at the alley. So i thought i could create some feet memory before i tried it at the alley. I seem to be wanting to rush to the foul line when there are pins i want to knock down.

I'm far from an expert but the more i look at my swing the more i like what i see. It looks free, it reaches the same height 4 times ... It will probably be far from perfect but it's an improvement to what i did before.

At one time i closed my eyes during the drill like slowisnki said and i did 1 swing that was completely free. I was like damn that felt good. I tried it again eyes closed with the ball at low height and the ball at high height and my backswing height adjusted accordingly, 3 completely free swings in a row. When opening the eyes again things felt a tiny bit worse again.
Posted by: 10PinGaloot

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Time-To-Roll
Keeping weight of ball in left hand. This is something I did not read in a book. ... with my left hand reach under and lift all the ball weight up and into my stance position. I can hold the ball at any height I want. I lead the ball out with all the weight sitting in my left hand then transfer ball to the right hand as it drops into my swing.So easy to repeat.

That's the Next Level/Norm Duke pushaway "Right arm gets all the credit, left arm does all the work"....

hey! Port Angeles! I'm a Puget Sounder in my heart....
Posted by: spectral

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 02:09 PM

i did have me left hand completely under my right hand, i had virtually no tension in the hand untill pushaway. I was mainly concentrating on the swing and seeing if i could keep my hand cupped if i didn't muscle it (as much). If i'm holding the ball like in norm's video until pushaway then i tend to not stay behind the ball during the swing. I even have a hard time doing that now, my hand wants to migrate around the ball... This is actually where the torso rotation comes in handy as well, makes me stay automatically more behind the ball
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 02:28 PM

All I see in the video is a several-step approach, where the ball is slowed down in the down swing. That is not the Slowinski drill, that is practicing (and ingraining) squeeze and muscle.

Here is his reference video:

Notice the complete follow through. And only 2 steps.
Posted by: spectral

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 02:32 PM

I did the slowinski drill for 30 minutes before i attempted these 4 full approaches. Sorry if i didn't point that out
Posted by: spectral

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 03:03 PM

did u see my first video's?

it's not like i'm going to get all the muscle out in just 1 training session of 30 minutes. I think there's improvement.

More comments are always appreciated
Posted by: cgeorg

Re: my video's - 01/21/10 05:19 PM

I saw your videos at the top. You didn't provide a video of the 2 step drill, so I can't tell you how that went. I am telling you that if you do what you were doing in the most recent video you posted, in your kitchen, you will be practicing muscling and squeezing the ball.
Posted by: spectral

Re: my video's - 01/22/10 02:24 AM

ok point taken, from now on i'll do 2 step drills and release practises at home