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Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 521
A/S/L: 48/male/Palmdale, California U...
I now have a slow motion / frame by frame controller for my cameras. I can now see in my Videos my hand at the start of the down swing start moving down outside the side of the ball. Is this me still “muscling” the down swing? I have no place to go at release.
My light bulb is definitely on a dimmer & slowly brightening. Soon, when it’s a little brighter I'll post a Video again for evaluation. Knowing and doing is definitely not the same thing!
#96979 - 07/02/0909:03 AMRe: Tried Free Swing, Have Some Questions
[Re: ijohn83]
sk8shorty01
Legend
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 2850
A/S/L: 25/M/Cocoa Beach, FL
John, if you hand is migrating to the outside of the ball as soon as the ball starts its downward motion, it is definitely muscle that is causing it. Your most likely culprit is pulling the ball down as it is still moving up. Your arm starts moving down and cannot slow the ball down fast enough to change its momentum so the hand has no choice but to move to the outside of the ball. I would watch your video and see if the ball ever hits a true "stop" at the top of the swing. If not then you have found your problem.
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Current: Last Series- 749 High Game- 279 High Series- 815 THS AVG- 215.7
#97006 - 07/02/0902:55 PMRe: Tried Free Swing, Have Some Questions
[Re: sk8shorty01]
CoachJim USBC Silver Coach
Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 3489
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
I would watch your video and see if the ball ever hits a true "stop" at the top of the swing.
Either that or just after your push away see if you are catching the ball instead of just dropping the ball into the swing in one motion from the set up to the back swing.
#97022 - 07/02/0908:32 PMRe: Tried Free Swing, Have Some Questions
[Re: CoachJim]
beefers1
Hall of Famer Hopeful
Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 955
A/S/L: 17/M/Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
1. Too much bending at the waist will cause the ball to head down into the lane. Keeping your shoulders behind your knees and your chest pointing at the target at the break point and bending from the knees instead will help this.
That may be it! I did notice some back soreness after that practice session that I usually don't experience. Yeah, I'm probably bending too much.
I'll try slowing down the swing and see how it goes. It may simply be that I'm not used to the new backswing (I used to have a muscled backswing where the ball only goes to waist level).
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14lb: Storm Spit Fire Brunswick Fury Pearl Columbia 300 White Dot
#97024 - 07/02/0908:51 PMRe: Tried Free Swing, Have Some Questions
[Re: beefers1]
CoachJim USBC Silver Coach
Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 3489
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Try just doing a "Walk through" approach where you kind of walk through all the steps to the slide without the ball, then turn around get the ball and repeat the half speed approach by just dropping the ball into the swing and let the ball swing your arm and just walk to the line and let the ball go, without worrying about where the ball goes, just get the feeling of letting the ball swing your arm and not bend at the waist and follow the ball down after the push away.
#97096 - 07/04/0909:37 AMRe: Tried Free Swing, Have Some Questions
[Re: beefers1]
VFF57
Regional Pro Hopeful
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 506
A/S/L: 52/M/NJ
Originally Posted By: beefers1
One more thing. Would a bit of loft help, since I fell like I'm getting little lift on the ball on release?
I've been working on the free swing as well. This is what I learned:
Don't try and loft the ball because the swing will become muscled at the release. Instead, increase your follow-through with your thumb going up towards the ceiling. A good release will feel like the ball is just rolling off your fingers.
I found with a free swing a good fitting ball is a must or your reflex's will kick in and corrupt the swing. A loose thumb hole will cause you to grip the ball too tight. To test for a loose thumb hole: stand with the ball hanging down along your side without gripping it (Have something like a cushion under the ball in case it hits the floor). If you have to grip the ball to keep it from falling off your hand then you may need to add some tape to the thumb hole. Of course you don't want the thumb hole to be too tight so that your hanging up in the ball.
Hope this helps. If I'm wrong or missing something here anybody please feel free to step in.
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#97098 - 07/04/0910:21 AMRe: Tried Free Swing, Have Some Questions
[Re: beefers1]
CoachJim USBC Silver Coach
Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 3489
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
One more thing. Would a bit of loft help, since I fell like I'm getting little lift on the ball on release?
On a typical shot, the ball should lane no more than a foot past the foul line with your slide foot no further than 6" back from the foul line. If your ball is not making it past the foul line, then you will need to keep the ball on your fingers longer through the release, by extending your fingers through the bottom of the ball.
Lofting is associated with lifting, and is not good with today's equipment that likes to skid in oil and over hook on dry, lifting the ball with your fingers enhances this reaction and makes the ball very hard to control.
#97146 - 07/05/0901:26 AMRe: Tried Free Swing, Have Some Questions
[Re: VFF57]
beefers1
Hall of Famer Hopeful
Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 955
A/S/L: 17/M/Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: VFF57
Don't try and loft the ball because the swing will become muscled at the release.
I thought it was okay to apply some force (ie. muscle) on the ball right at the moment of release. Otherwise I wouldn't get any hook at all (which is what I want for spares but not strikes. For spares I would completely relax my arm and hand). I've seen a lot of slow-mo vids of pros and many of them bend their elbows at release.
BTW, how do bowlers like Mika Koivuniemi and Ritchie Allen do so well with so much loft? I'm not trying to emulate them or anything, I'm just wondering.
Edited by beefers1 (07/05/0901:29 AM)
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14lb: Storm Spit Fire Brunswick Fury Pearl Columbia 300 White Dot
#97154 - 07/05/0908:19 AMRe: Tried Free Swing, Have Some Questions
[Re: beefers1]
CoachJim USBC Silver Coach
Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 3489
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
I thought it was okay to apply some force (ie. muscle) on the ball right at the moment of release. Otherwise I wouldn't get any hook at all (which is what I want for spares but not strikes. For spares I would completely relax my arm and hand). I've seen a lot of slow-mo vids of pros and many of them bend their elbows at release.
The pros don't bend their elbows at the release, the bend their elbows before the release, then snap the elbow and wrist straight at the point of release which drives the fingers through the ball without forcing the fingers upwards.
If you throw your strike ball like your spare ball and just let the ball roll off your hand, but put your wrist in a strong position before the release, then snap your wrist straight at the release, you will achieve more revs and less lift. Nobody on tour besides Richie Allen and now Joe Nollen rip through the ball at the release, even Richie Allen looked like he smoothed his release down quite a bit from previous years. There are exceptions to everything, just because it doesn't work for any of those guys doesn't mean it will not work for you so go ahead grip it and rip it and see for yourself.
Quote:
BTW, how do bowlers like Mika Koivuniemi and Ritchie Allen do so well with so much loft? I'm not trying to emulate them or anything, I'm just wondering.
Mika's ball comes off his hand from a higher point and is traveling parallel to the lane when it lands, having the ball come in downward from a steep angle will cause the ball to bounce and sit up on top of the oil and hydroplane. Even Mika has decreased the amount of loft he uses and gets much lower at the foul line than he used to.
Lofting the ball is good for when the head oil is totally gone and there is still some oil in the midlane, this way it is like extending the lay down point of the ball and it doesn't matter if the ball bounces because there isn't much if any oil where the ball lands and encounters oil shortly after that.