My center just had its lane certification. They did not check the pattern - just the level, and flat gutter depth.

I find the idea of having sanctioned leagues use the national shot interesting. Don't say it, just do it. What would be the positive effect though? I know I'd like it, because I enjoy the challenge, but I think I'm in the minority. Others would find their area gone. They would either not know why, and get frustrated, or know why, and stop bowling sanctioned events because of it. It probably wouldn't affect most fun leagues. I suppose it could have the effect of making competitive leagues more competitive.

The scoring system in bowling is actually set up rather brutally at high levels. One 10 pin costs 21 pins at a minimum when you're stringing strikes. That's a 7% penalty, and worse if you make a mental mistake to miss the spare. In golf, a bad shot costs at most 2 strokes with proper mental play (stroke and distance - you can take an unplayable lie from anywhere... well, not sand, but anyway...). 2 strokes out of a par 72 course is a very small percent... around 3. Johnny Petraglia may have been onto something with his scoring system used during the Women's challenge series. Golf has so many scoring systems - stroke play, match play, skins, stableford, etc. Even if the new one(s) doesn't supplant the old, adding a couple new scoring systems to bowling could... perhaps not add integrity, but add interest, without trivializing the sport.

I am taking my welcome back to the Salisbury guy who started this thread, you don't just drop a post like this as your first post and then walk away and not even comment on any of our feedback.

It is like spitting in our faces and saying we don't have any integrity. Don't just pass judgment on our sport then crawl back under what ever rock you came out of, stand and back up the [censored] you are slinging or shut up.

right because the oil check is supposed to be a surprise visit, so avoid putting out a legal shot just for the occasion.

I kind of agree. When that series started, I thought it would be uninteresting, but by the time it was through the dynamics of the scoring showed its value.

Or how about this - count the number of pins you knock down in 21 shots. You must knock all 10 down before re-rack, just as in pocket billiards. The max would be 210, and if you got 9-spare throughout you would score 109. That would be an accurate reflection of your abilities, I would think.

I might try scoring my games that way and see how it goes...

Re Coach Jim's comment, I felt that way about 2 posts after the start of the thread. I think if we could change the name of the thread to "Let's improve our sport" and delete the first post, then most of the posts are positive, and beneficial and interesting.

Hate to disagree with you here, but there are a lot of people for whom bowling is an entirely social activity. I've even had (former) teammates tell me they pay their $18 a week to come and socialize and if some bowling gets done, so be it.

For folks like you and me, we don't see it because we're generally bowling in competitive leagues with lots of money on the line and it's important to us to do well. Ever watch social bowlers, year after year do the same thing, roll the same scores, and you wonder why they don't want to improve?

I like the "red, white, blue" idea. I like the idea of making the leagues for better bowlers be more challenging. For me, rising to the challenge is an accomplishment and in the long run I feel like it makes me a better bowler.

Something definitely needs to change, though. To me, bowling on todays conditions is like going out to a golf course where every fareway is 50 yards wide, straight, and 200 yards long, with no water or sand traps, and the green is shaped like a bowl with the cup at the bottom of it. Wouldn't take much skill to shoot under par on a course like that would it? But for the better golfer, who takes the game seriously, he wouldn't get much enjoyment out of that course either, would he?

I'm serious about certain centers around here always having a PBA shot on some lanes. It is usually the same shot as the PBA League will use the next week. And, is intended for those bowlers to practice. Usually, lanes 1-6 have that shot, where the rest don't.

I get upset with the house when I go in and there are a bunch of kids goofing around on those lanes, when other lanes are open. It's sacriligious to to me to put them there. But, the House policy is to place bowlers in order as they come in from 1 to the end. Counter productive.

So, I recommended they lay the PBA shots from 35 thru 40, and keep us away from those just having fun.

Dan, on most courses I play, I can drive half of the par 4s, and never need more than a 60* wedge into the green. Par 5s, I'm lucky if I need a 7 iron on the second shot. Usually driver, 9 iron.

So, yes, lower end public courses are exactly the way house shots are. Harder courses exist if you want to pay for it, and the same is true of bowling conditions.

Also, re: red, white, and blue, there has already been the definition in other sports of red being the easiest, then white as the standard, and blues are for the big players. Throw in black for really flat shots and you've got yourself a system.

Red: 8:1 or higher
White: Between 8 and 5 to 1
Blue: Between 5 and 2.5 to 1
Black: 2.5 to 1 or less.

I have found that the shots closer to 3:1 have miss room, even fresh. The shots closer to flat obviously don't. Hence, lowering the black from 3:1 to 2.5:1. I could possibly be convinced it should be 2:1. I think white would offer a fair challenge without being overly difficult, and you could still be a "tougher" or "easier" house by moving towards those extremes, without making it out of hand.

Dan you missed my point in the quote you pasted, the original blowhard was saying that we should do away with lane oil and that would make things fair I was pointing out that the only ones that would be able to bowl on that type of condition are the rocket to the pocket types and helicopter bowlers.

I wasn't insinuating people don't bowl for fun, that is pretty much the only reason to bowl, there certainly isn't much money in it.

I've stayed out of this particular discussion because I felt the original poster was a one and done type of deal plus these topics tend to get a little touchy and repetitive at times.

I do want to chime in on the color code system, which USBC is in the process of developing but only as house shots. As CG stated, red will be the easiest, white the middle ground and blue the hardest of the house shot patterns and then Sport bowling which would be the black level CG mentions. The thing with the color system they are developing, it's going to be optional. They won't even try to make it mandatory since they and the BPAA are partners for all intents and purposes even though there is nothing official about it.