I appreciate the response to all of this and don't mind a bit if this gets off into other subjects.

My span is around 4 1/2 ~ 4 5/8. I used a new switch grip today with 1/4 reverse and I guess it's 1/4 lateral - hope my definitions are right on this. I was able to get a nice clean release as compared to my 1/8 reverse and I didn't feel as if I was gripping at all. I did get my ball back with the 7/8 reverse and with the shorter span (my span), it does feel a bit like I'm gripping - but I'm going to work with it during practice sessions - perhaps try different releases. Likely, I'll have switch grips put in - perhaps at 1/8" reverse on the ball sleeve so I can move from 1/8" to 1/4" to 3/8" with the different sleeves that I have and see what gels.

I guess I find this very interesting that a 1/8" difference in pitch makes a huge impact on whether or not you clear the ball like you want. I feel sorry for the people who've actually followed the advice of the guy on youtube that showed how you can drill a ball at home with a paddle bit. I assume some of you have seen it - funny as heck - but sad if you take it seriously.

Luksa, it couldn't hurt to see the video(s) you're talking about. The way you're describing what's happening sounds like it could be solved by pitch or span changes. Maybe not though, it seems like what you're saying is on the way out, because of the pressure applied during release, the thumb will drag around the top of the hole?

I do find my self knuckling it when it gets big enough but when that's not necessary I keep the thumb straight. Would you guys say that if I grip the ball on the backswing but relax the hand on the downswing so that there's less drag on release the irritation might go away?

My bet is that you're gripping both.

What if you focus on keeping your hand completely relaxed, like a dead fish? Absolutely no pressure with your fingers or thumb, and your thumb straight. Will the ball stay on your hand?

Hey all,

I promised I'd get back once my Hammer Burn was redrilled and I was able to throw it with my new reverse pitch - worked great - shot 720 in the first series. I found it much easier getting my thumb out - which has now increased my revs as I don't hang for that fraction of a second.

I've got a few other balls that I haven't drilled yet and may push to 3/8 or 1/2 reverse to give it a try. When I get around to it, I'll let everyone know of my results.

Let us know how much the tendinitis surgery costs too.

I can't even imagine how hard someone has to squeeze the ball and/or bend their thumb to hang on to it when you have that much reverse.

3/8 isn't that much reverse for 4 5/8.. It is on the high side of the Bill Taylor chart but it isn't extreme...That is what I am at right now and the ball will not fall off my hand with a completely relaxed grip..

I tried 3/16 and just couldn't get out clean with a snug thumbhole.. I have a fairly long thumb..

7/8 reverse, that is extreme. ..

Tendinitis surgery? I don't think so... and this thing about charts.

Okay, perhaps I should post this in the pet peeves section as this is exactly what I've been talking about pro shops and under similar circumstances - coaches teaching from a book and not from experience. One of my Gold coaches once said "the book doesn't bowl" - well, neither do charts. Everyone is unique - charts are a nice guideline but shouldn't be a rule. People need to be evaluated based on their individual differences and not placed in cookie cutter bowling ball layouts with the expectation that it will work for them.

I've now met a few more people that push 1/2" or more reverse with similar spans as me. Incidentally, my friend who has 7/8" reverse, shot three (yes, three) 300 games tonight - two during practice and one during league.

It's this kind of cookie cutter thinking that bothers me - it's probably okay for the 150 average bowler who has no aspirations of anything more, but not for the 200+ who want to do more.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, but I feel we need to step out of the box once in a while.

txbowler,

Generally speaking, 7/8" reverse is an incredible amount. This is just me, but using that kind of pitch tells me that you and your friend are extremely unflexible or you're just comfortable squeezing the ball. I would just like the say that the best way to have success in the long run is to have a relaxed hand especially at the release point. But it's also not impossible to bowl well using other methods. Depending on where you want to be with your game, you may be happy with that amount of reverse now. Later down the road, you may or may not want to revisit the idea of the relaxed hand and assess your grip if necessary.

For what it's worth, for your span I think 1/4" reverse would be a normal starting point.

If you read Ron Clifton's articles, he talks about 2 things for the thumb pitch. First, a forward pitch should be employed when a bowler's wrist is NOT straight or NOT cupped. If a bowler's wrist is weak or lazy (his terms) the ball weight is transferred to the thumb and the ball feels like it will fall off which encourages thumb gripping.

"If you find yourself in a situation where the ball wants to fall off of your thumb no matter how tight you make the thumbhole, then you need to take a look at your thumb pitch. You will most likely need to move the pitch more forward."

Second, if the bowler cups the ball through the swing, he keeps the ball weight on his fingers which is recommended. He even recommends a wrist support to accomplish this. In talking with a couple of ball drillers, the ball will hang up on the thumb with forward pitch and a cupped hand, so reverse is suggested.

"If your wrist is weak or lazy, then it will be open just before the bottom of the swing. This means that your wrist is not straight or cupped, but bent back. This transfers more of the ball’s weight to the thumb so the ball falls off. Try to keep your wrist cupped and carry the ball’s weight on the fingers."

Therefore, it seems that the correlation of how much forward or reverse pitch should be employed is not related to the span as it is directly related to the amount of cupping or weakness a bowler's wrist has.

Never saw anything with this analysis.