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#96423 - 06/26/09 09:58 AM working inside of ball
Handful Offline
High Roller

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 32/male/St Pete, FL/ usa
brickwallSo I have been working on staying on the inside of the ball and it has been a more difficult issue then I expected. I have always had good revs but on video you can tell my hand stays on the outside of the ball with a flat wrist. My axis rotation is usually around 45 degrees with no axis tilt. When I try to stay on the inside of the ball, my armswing is all over the place, no swing slot. the only way I stay in a swing slot is if I throw like Amleto Monacelli (but no accuracy). What's more fustrating is I get a terrible amount of axis tilt with working the inside, I would say 60-70 degrees. I can tame the tilt with a lot of loft (late release) but it is still pronounced. What am I doing wrong.
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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
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#96435 - 06/26/09 10:50 AM Re: working inside of ball [Re: Handful]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3397
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
Posting a vid would make it much easier to diagnose. Staying inside the ball is not as easy as they make it seem on TV. Need a lot of hand/wrist strength.
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#96457 - 06/26/09 05:35 PM Re: working inside of ball [Re: Handful]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Without a video all I can do is speculate.

Read this article by Joe Slowinski:
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/june09_article.pdf

You are most likely trying to hook the ball instead of just keeping your wrist in position. By trying to hook the ball you turn around it too soon and too much causing it to have too much rotation and tilt.

If you can keep your bowling side shoulder (I don't know if you are right handed or left handed), back as described in the article, it makes it a lot easier to stay behind the ball and put revs on the ball without forcing it.

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#96486 - 06/27/09 09:53 AM Re: working inside of ball [Re: CoachJim]
Handful Offline
High Roller

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 32/male/St Pete, FL/ usa
So I hope you can see what I'm talking about. the first video is my normal release in slow motion. the second is me trying to stay inside.



you might not be able to tell but the axis tilt is pretty bad on the second shot.
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#96487 - 06/27/09 10:45 AM Re: working inside of ball [Re: Handful]
10PinGaloot Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
disclaimer - I'm still learning. That said:

It looks like you're not on the inside, but rather are starting on the outside and bringing your wrist over the top of the ball. In almost all of my 10 releases, the rotation comes from the hand starting underneath the ball, with the fingers "below the equator" and letting the ball drop off the fingers. The way you're throwing it, your ball will not rotate if you just let it drop, since your hand is on top of the ball, and therefore you give it a little oomph with your hand. Which is fine, if that's what you want to do. I use this shot as one of my 10 varieties, and call it the limp-wristed over-the-top with a flip (seriously - I name all my releases).

Try just keeping the ball in front of your hand, your fingers down as low as possible, and just let the ball drop off your fingers after the thumb exits. the angle of your wrist to the foul line while the ball drops off will determine the angle of rotation (I call this release the "drop-off", of course).

To build up strength in the wrist, if necessary, use kettlebells (no, I don't own stock - there are several brands).
good bowling!

check out Slowinski at
Slowinski

Here's the article on the release:
The "Drop-off" release
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#96489 - 06/27/09 11:32 AM Re: working inside of ball [Re: 10PinGaloot]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
To me, it looks like the mistake you're making is trying to keep your fingers at a 90 degree angle to the lane. When you bring the ball back, you're not inside the ball. You then try to just turn your hand so you palm is inside the ball.

Look at the picture I attached. Look where you ring and index fingers are. That's actually where your index finger should be. Do this:

Your hand out in front of you, palm up, with your index finger spread like you are in this picture. Now tilt your wrist to the right so that your index finger is pointing where your middle finger was. Now tip your index finger down so that side of your hand is lower than your pinkie side so the weight of the ball will rest more on your index finger. If you lower your hand to point at the ground, your index finger will be pointing there, not your ring and middle finger.

Now your fingers will be inside of the ball.


Attachments
handfull.JPG




Edited by Lefty (06/27/09 11:33 AM)

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#96503 - 06/27/09 02:58 PM Re: working inside of ball [Re: 10PinGaloot]
Time-To-Roll Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 434
A/S/L: female, Port Angeles Wa. right...
That site has really been improved. One of the things we have not discussed is on the 45 degree release to think 1:00 finish with the thumb. I am thinking I come up light on the head pin too often is because I lead with ring finger and not getting enough rotation. This is somthing I forget about.
The way I understand Slowinski is the finger positions are at release and not the address position in which the hand is more inside the ball to achieve some revs. The release is pretty much the result of all that proceeds it. I feel that the improvement I see in my own game is from what Slowinski teaches.
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#96537 - 06/28/09 09:32 AM Re: working inside of ball [Re: Time-To-Roll]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Get you some! Do wrist curls.



Here's Lance Armstrong! feel the burn!








Edited by SpareMe (06/28/09 09:32 AM)
_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#96550 - 06/28/09 05:56 PM Re: working inside of ball [Re: 10PinGaloot]
Handful Offline
High Roller

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 32/male/St Pete, FL/ usa
Spare me. I think your refering to keeping the wrist cupped. For now I have kept my wrist neutral just to eliminate that as a factor. once I get my fingers in the correct position, then getting under the ball may be added (if needed, my revs are pretty good). Also I have been working on a free armswing so I have removed all muscle from my armswing which means no cupping for now.
Here are some video's from today.



Boy this just kills the sides of my finger. And the pad of my index finger is throbbing. Feels like the ball sitting on this is ripping it off my hand.
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#96551 - 06/28/09 06:21 PM Re: working inside of ball [Re: Handful]
Time-To-Roll Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 434
A/S/L: female, Port Angeles Wa. right...
I guess I did not realize that my wrist was breaking back a little too much. Still leaving the head pin. Tried moving left and right and strong grip, nothing worked. So grabbed my moongoose and strapped it on.Bingo! It kept my wrist straight and I could feel the difference in the release. Then just a matter of starting ball toward the break point,waiting for the ball and releasing up the back. No more head pin leaves. I notice the women pros use a brace throwing their 15# balls, our wrists are a lot smaller. So if I want to use the 14# ball the wrist brace is a help.
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