I have a question for "everyone" - how many of you know what your thumb pitches are? I also have some rants and raves too..

I guess I'm a little peeved at some Pro Shop operator(s) that I've been dealing with - at least until today when I had one of those "epiphany" moments.

I've kept my average 200 - 210 for a while now and have tried many things, techniques, etc... to rise above this. I bowl everyday, I coach, and I'm still very much a student of the sport and probably always will be. Over the past year or so, I've developed large calluses on both sides of my thumb. I've complained to my Pro Shop drillers (changed driller once) about this and mentioned that I felt like my thumb pitch is out of whack considering if I'm going to throw a bad shot, it's usually my thumb hanging (plus the calluses are a clue). Essentially the drillers either don't care what I'm trying to convey or are too deadset on their ideas of thumb pitches always being 1/8" reverse. On a side note, I had to gripe about them not writing down my PAP for proper pin placement - still not sure if they've drilled everything correctly according to PAP or if they're just guessing.

Anyway, as for the epiphany, a friend of mine let me try his ball today - he has 7/8" reverse, which is extreme and his span is a bit too long. Long story short, first six shots were strikes and I finished 250+ with a ball that I've never thrown before (Hammer Burn). With the noticeable thumb pitch change, my hand cleared the ball very nicely - better than anything I have in my 15+ ball arsenal.

So... I've got several balls in my arsenal, all drilled with switch grips, the most I can get out of my switch grips are 1/4" reverse without plugging and redrilling everything - had a new grip drilled today and it felt better, but 1/4" reverse may not be enough. I've got my new Burn in for finger plug and redrill (since I bought the ball from my friend after I threw it) and will give 7/8" reverse a try with better span fit.

My rant is, the Pro Shop operators are doing too much one size fits all - or basic drilling is good for everyone. I'm bothered that it took me this long to try a substantial more amount of reverse to see if I come out cleaner - but at the moment pleased with what I found.

So - how many of you know what your thumb pitch is and how many of you are just at the mercy of the Pro Shop operator?

It won't be the amount of reverse that will give you a callus, but the lateral pitch. 7/8th's is a ridiculous amount of reverse. You'd have to have an 8 inch span or have to have a death grip on the ball to hang on to it.

I have a 4 3/4 inch span and currently have an 1/8th reverse. I need to take it more forward because it will slip a touch sometimes when my had is relaxed. I'll probably go to 1/8th forward.

Are the calluses on both sides of your thumb directly on the side, or are they more on the top or bottom?

The calluses are directly on each side.

I thought 7/8th was ridiculous too - until I talked to two regional pro friends of mine today about the issue after I got onto my soap box and really searched for answers. Both are about my hand size and both said they used to have over 1" reverse.

As for my friend who rolls with 7/8 - he has 30 sanctioned 300 games - and I'm not thinking it's so ridiculous anymore.

1/16th forward in one...rest are 1/8th forward. Happy with it, but it took a long Sunday afternoon with the head driller. And then still needed more adjustment. Killed a ball in the process but it's gone on to a good home. Probably getting ready to kill another, but we'll see.

But, yes, my shop definitely does one-size-fits-none-quite-right.

I wonder if there's a correlation with span versus thumb pitch - or maybe it's a flexibility issue - or a combination of both.

Is there any info out about the exempt pro ball fitting measurements? I'm really curious now...

Oh - one other thing Domokun - what type of roller are you? Where is your ball Track? I'm somewhere around a stroker/tweener with a high Track on the edge of my thumb.

Where the heck is all the data so I can spend hours upon hours of time trying to hopelessly analyze to see where the true correlations exist???

Someone with a longer span would need more reverse than someone with a shorter span.

Do you use an oval thumb or round? It sounds like you're rubbing on both sides. That (to me anyway) doesn't sound like a pitch issue.

I use oval, not round.

Is it really an objective measurement between span size and pitch?

I'm starting to question a few things now that people once believed to be objectively true. One of those things is pin to CG placement. The ball studies now show that pin to CG placement essentially means nothing. Drillers will tell you that they have limited options to drill pin-in balls - this simply isn't true. I recently confirmed this with one of the top USBC figures who was an integral part of the last ball motion studies. That's just one example.

So... it seems that many Pro Shop operators set these drilling standards because it's easy for them, not so much because it's right for each individual bowler. I think bowling measurements and layouts are just as unique to an individual as they're own style is.

txbowler, you must have to squeeze the 7/8" reverse ball a lot. I've tried a lot of reverse recently and I will admit it's nice to get out of the ball that well, but it's a pain in the butt trying to hold on to it.

I'm struggling to find a good thumb fit myself.

Until I get the span fit changed, I won't know how much the squeeze I had to do was related to span versus the reverse. When I threw the Burn today, the span was at least 1/4 too long - probably closer to 3/8, so I did squeeze a bit.

So... I'm definitely going to post my results once I get the redrilled ball back tomorrow - will likely throw it this weekend if not tomorrow evening.