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#94524 - 06/08/09 01:41 PM Proposed new league and tournament conditions
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
June 8, 2009

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Jason Overstreet
International Bowling Campus Communications
(800) 514-BOWL, ext. 8380
jason.overstreet@bowl.com
On the Web: bowl.com


USBC DEVELOPING NEW RED, WHITE AND BLUE CONDITIONS; BPAA TO ASSIST IN TESTING

ARLINGTON, Texas - The United States Bowling Congress plans to introduce a new series of lane conditions for certified competition. The group of patterns is designed to provide bowlers a better description for the difficulty of traditional "house" conditions.

As part of the plan, leagues and tournaments will have the option of using oil patterns falling into USBC Red, White or Blue condition categories. USBC Red pattern will be the most forgiving condition, USBC White will be more challenging and USBC Blue will be the most difficult of the new "house" conditions. USBC Sport Bowling conditions will continue to be the most challenging level of oil patterns.

"We know that lane conditions have a tremendous impact on the sport," USBC Vice President-National Governing Body Neil Stremmel said. "House shots can be very easy or reasonably challenging. Knowing the difficulty of the condition helps build credibility for the sport and adds a new fun element for bowlers."

The new condition categories are scheduled for testing later this year in cooperation with the Bowling Proprietors' Association of America. The conditions should be available for tournament use in spring 2010 and for the fall 2010 league season.

"This program can provide proprietors an excellent marketing tool to attract and maintain league bowlers," BPAA President Jim Sturm said. "Red, White and Blue can be used like stepping stones to progressively increase a bowler's interest in the competitive side of the sport. We are eager to test the program and hear feedback from customers and proprietors."

Use of the USBC Red, White and Blue conditions will be completely optional and the patterns will be available for download at no cost.

"A primary goal of the project is to make the USBC Red, White and Blue conditions easy for bowlers to understand and proprietors to utilize," Stremmel said. "The industry's lane machine manufacturers have been extremely supportive in making sure this program will work for nearly any center wanting to participate."

As part of the effort to gain attention for the new condition categories, USBC is sponsoring a stop on next season's Lumber Liquidators PBA Tour. The Red, White and Blue Open presented by USBC will be held at Northrock Lanes in Wichita, Kan., Dec. 7-13. The finals telecast will air Jan. 3 on ESPN.

United States Bowling Congress
The United States Bowling Congress, as the national governing body, ensures the integrity and protects the future of the sport, provides programs and services to nearly 2.5 million adult and youth members and enhances the bowling experience.

Bowling Proprietors' Association of America
Founded in 1932 and headquartered in Arlington, Texas, BPAA represents the business interests of bowling center owners worldwide. BPAA's mission to enhance the profitability of its member centers and its vision is to be an essential resource to bowling centers and to lead a united, growing, more prosperous and highly regarded bowling industry.


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#94550 - 06/08/09 05:19 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 4192
A/S/L: 29/m/maryland
I just read this article over at the other site. I wonder how many centers will actually use these different patterns, especially the more difficult ones.

At least I finally know what the Red White and Blue Open on the PBA schedule is about.
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#94558 - 06/08/09 08:09 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 3484
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
...And so it begins, how long before they don't sanction honor scores on the red pattern?

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#94561 - 06/08/09 08:54 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: CoachJim]
Domokun Offline
Team USA Hopeful

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 459
A/S/L: 39/male/DC Metro
Five minutes after the meeting they had before this release. Coupla guys left over stealing the last doughnuts:

"Hey, no one said anything about honor scores on the Red..."

Sucking wind through teeth. "Ooooh, yeah, can't let that happen. Yeaaaah, just don't say anything until the first one comes in. We'll deny it and blame it on the league that sent it. Whatever they say, we'll say they should've done the opposite."

"So, the usual, then? Great! Hand me that last boston creme--f***ing love those."
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#94666 - 06/09/09 05:09 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Domokun]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 4192
A/S/L: 29/m/maryland
Or at least make the award for honor scores on the red pattern an even cheaper trinket like a pin or patch.
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#94671 - 06/09/09 07:50 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
Here's an interesting perspective.

We just figured out our association "average" 116086817 pins knocked down. This was for adults only;men and women combined. 157 average

So why is USBC trying to promote stuff that a majority of the bowlers probably don't care about or care to understand? Is it possible that by making different names for patterns etc.... they hope to stir up more interest from these bowlers in the sport? IMO, its pretty clear that a majority of bowlers are there to have fun, some minor competition and socialize.

Erin

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#94672 - 06/09/09 08:03 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 4192
A/S/L: 29/m/maryland
It's like the sport shot leagues and now the PBAX leagues, another gimmick to try to grow the sport, but nationwide the average is around the mid 150s for women and I believe the mid to upper 170s for men. I agree that those numbers mean that at least half, but more like two-thirds, are there for fun and socializing. Plus the handicap situation means bowlers don't have to improve to still be able to "compete" with the better teams.

Basically I see this as another soon to be failure in terms of helping the sport.

It would be nice if individual leagues could have the choice of which pattern to use so that those that want a little more challenge can choose the harder pattern. I just don't see that many proprietors doing that though.
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2009-2010 Winter Season
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#94677 - 06/09/09 09:00 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
Quote:
It would be nice if individual leagues could have the choice of which pattern to use so that those that want a little more challenge can choose the harder pattern. I just don't see that many proprietors doing that though.


Leagues can do this now, with negotiations with the center. But USBC must be considering eliminating all awards from any league that doesn't some how, certify a specific condition. That's all I can see with this motion. And this will put a lot more pressure on the centers since they would be responsible for gettingg the shot down and having it verified.

I can just see it now "Come bowl at Joe's Bowl, easist more fun shot in the area", "no certification or membership needed".

Erin

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#94691 - 06/10/09 07:26 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
Lefty Offline
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Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2343
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Atochabsh
Here's an interesting perspective.

We just figured out our association "average" 116086817 pins knocked down. This was for adults only;men and women combined. 157 average

So why is USBC trying to promote stuff that a majority of the bowlers probably don't care about or care to understand? Is it possible that by making different names for patterns etc.... they hope to stir up more interest from these bowlers in the sport? IMO, its pretty clear that a majority of bowlers are there to have fun, some minor competition and socialize.

Erin


The average golfer shoots over 100 for 18 holes, yet there are still course slopes and ratings.

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#94711 - 06/10/09 10:59 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Lefty]
sk8shorty01 Offline
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Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 2849
A/S/L: 25/M/Cocoa Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Lefty


The average golfer shoots over 100 for 18 holes, yet there are still course slopes and ratings.


This is very true. I think it gives your average a little more validity as far as others can compare. For instance, how does anyone know how easy your THS is that you average XXX on? I think this is an attempt to help bowlers identify with each other as far as skill level across the U.S.
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#94712 - 06/10/09 11:00 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Lefty]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
Who rates them and how often? I know it takes time to change topography of a course, grow grass. Unlike a bowling lane where you can put down as many oil patterns as you have time to run the machine up and down.

Do they determine the grading by the topography? The cut of the grass? And what specialized tools would a golf course need to uphold and verify their rating on a weekly basis? I know next to nothing about golf.

Erin

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#94714 - 06/10/09 11:11 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
General Pounder Offline
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Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2694
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
All of the mowers have set heights when mowing. There are different mowers for the fairways, tees, and greens. Some courses use a different mower for the fringe as well. Some use riding mowers for the greens, tees, and fringe, some use walk behinds, some a combination. They use a micrometer type device to set the height. It is very precise. As far as when the sloping is graded, I know that the course I worked at they did it after we had any changes to the course. The summer of 95, we had a HUGE flood that covered a good portion of the course with water and we were closed for 2 weeks. By the following summer, there were a lot of changes to the course because of it. They (the USGA) re-rated the course at that time and every spring when they did changes during the fall/winter.

Once settings are done on a mower, they don't change them. The length of the grass then depends on how often the grass is mowed and the amount of rain/watering between times. We tried to mow the whole course every other day with the greens done daily. The rough was done probably every 3 days.


Edited by General Pounder (06/10/09 11:11 AM)
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#94716 - 06/10/09 11:19 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: General Pounder]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
So you could not change a course for a "Sport" league in the evening and a ladies handicap league the next morning. Or have a Sport course for the first 9 and handicap course the last 9, and then put down all handicap the next morning. All the while verifying that the sport is the sport when its supposed to be the sport. Grass can grow fast I know but I don't think it grows that fast. And each course was graded once a season? Bowling centers are certified each season for physical attributes like lane tilt, deep gutters. But as you know if you can find a mechanic that does not tinker with an oiling machine you've found a gold mine. Plus I'd imagine that the lane oiling machine requires more drastic maintenance then the mowers? Not sure but maybe. The blades can get dull etc....but is there a drastic difference between using a mower with duller blades vs freshly sharpened? I've also seen some floods in bowling alleys and it does change the "course". Couple seasons ago, one of our centers had its roof collapse. That's probably not too good on lanes.

Thanks for good explanations on golf courses.

Erin

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#94725 - 06/10/09 12:28 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
cgeorg Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3351
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Grass height is a pretty insignificant factor for most golf courses I've played on, although extreme rough can add to difficulty, as can extremely fast greens, or extremely slow ones (IMO. I hate slow greens). The main determination for difficulty is going to be length of holes, and layout of the course. Lots of sand traps near landing areas, lots of water, narrow fairways, undulating greens all add difficulty. And those things would not likely change throughout a season (I suppose fairway width could).
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#94730 - 06/10/09 12:38 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: cgeorg]
General Pounder Offline
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Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2694
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
Erin:

No problem. That was my job for 4 summers when I was in college. They can change it to a "sport" league though. There are multiple tee boxes. Each of them have a different rating based on the distance to the hole. There are some tee boxes that hit over water on a hole while others don't. That adds difficulty as well as sand traps. Also, pin positions can be altered (and are on a daily basis). When we had the Illinois Open at my course, me and the course super went out and walked the course talking about what would be the toughest pin positions. We had a few mapped out and then the mornings I would cut them.

CG: Changing fairway width is normally not that easy. The grass type is normally different between the cuts of grass. On a course, you will see at least 2 different types of grass and up to 4. Most of the time you will see 3 though. The tee and green most of the time will be bent grass. The fairway is a thicker/tougher grass like bermuda. And the rough is a cheaper grass that can be let go easier like a fescue or Kentucky Bluegrass.
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HS: 826
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#94734 - 06/10/09 12:56 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: General Pounder]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6096
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Although number 5 at my course is a 230 par 3 water hole. From the back tees, it is actually a yard shorter, but it is farther over water. You only have 10 yards or so of open fairway to the green. So, that's about 210 yds of water. Where the regular tees only have to clear 80 yds of water to a fairway. But, don't slice, cause you follow the water line to the right of the green.

It's like the Petersen Classic tournament here where the lanes are bone dry up to the arrows. You have to loft the ball passed the arrows.
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#94736 - 06/10/09 01:01 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: General Pounder]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
So how could you determine that a lane condition would be Red/White or Blue (degrees of difficulty) and maintain that for as long as desired? How could you do that for one or two of 35 leagues in the center?, for the entire season? Just go on faith that the lane machine is set up and switched back and forth accordingly? And that the mechanic hasn't fallen behind on maintenance or replacement parts? Because I know when you replace some of those parts in the oil machine that it definately effects the oil pattern. If USBC wants to do this, who is going to verfiy that the condition is what it is and how often during the season? Once a year like a golf course and just hope the oiling machine stays the same?

Erin

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#94738 - 06/10/09 01:38 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
General Pounder Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2694
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
Right now, it is up to each golf course to maintain their equipment. They have people who maintain each part of the course. Trust me, it isn't easy. If there are issues with the course, it would be up to the golfers to report issues with course to management. Then, they could go to the USGA. I would think that the USBC would do something similar. If a house gets a new machine during the season, the house would have to be re-evaluated. It isn't necessarily a yearly thing. Only when changes are made. If there are changes in equipment or lane conditions, they would have to be re-evaluated. Not yearly. That would be too much work and the USBC wouldn't do it and we wouldn't pay for them to do it.
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#94739 - 06/10/09 01:40 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6096
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I would assume the vast majority of leagues will be the normal House shot (red) if you will. Only the exceptions would have to be verified, Sport (white) or PBA/Tournaments (blue).
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#94740 - 06/10/09 01:43 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
sk8shorty01 Offline
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Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 2849
A/S/L: 25/M/Cocoa Beach, FL
Erin,
In my opinion, most centers are not going to run leagues with each the red, white, and blue patterns. Its hard enough in most cases to get a center to do a sport league, let alone pay three seperate sanctaions for three different "house" patterns. I think it would be a better use in saying, at my house which is rated a white house shot I am averaging 205 as opposed to you who averages 210 on the red. Of course the averages are just made up, I was just giving an example. Not only that but I assume the bowler (if bowling on all three) would have to pay three sanction fees in order to establish three seperate averages because of the difference in pattern. I am not sure, just a guess, depending on how much variation the patterns would cause in the averages.
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#94743 - 06/10/09 02:11 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: sk8shorty01]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
Sh, I thought about that too. Centers being "white" "red" or "blue" centers. But how are you going to assume that they are going to stay that way throughout the season. Let's say the hardest house shot is "blue" and at the beginning of the season it is blue. But around 1/2 way people start dropping out, the house starts losing bowlers and they adjust the shot. Or lets say they lose their mechanic and hire another. That mechanic puts in what they thing is a "blue" shot or not. Hiring and firing happen all the time and getting new machines happesn too. Our center has two machines. But if one machine runs the "blue" shot and the other runs the "white" how are you going to tell from week to week besides bowlers' perception.

Althought its been explained how golf courses can change their degree of difficulty, I still thing its easier for a bowling lane to do so with one pass of a machine. You can also tilt the pin decks, lower the gutters things like that, which to me kind of equae to the golf course changes. But the machine is programed and you push a button. Which means that each time that machine passes the shot would have to be verified somehow. I've just rarely bowled in any center where the shot stayed the same all year, house shot or not, easy or not. Week to week you sometimes see variences.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think this is a bad idea. However, I do think its impossible logistially to enact. Since USBC cannot be concerned with having all centers put at least 3 units of oil on the outside boards. I doubt they are going to be all that concerned with the integridy of their Red/White/Blue shots.

Erin


Edited by Atochabsh (06/10/09 02:21 PM)

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#94764 - 06/10/09 06:11 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Dennis Michael]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 4192
A/S/L: 29/m/maryland
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
I would assume the vast majority of leagues will be the normal House shot (red) if you will. Only the exceptions would have to be verified, Sport (white) or PBA/Tournaments (blue).


Dennis, these new lane conditions are going to be house shots with varying degrees of difficulty then on top of that there will be the Sport Shots, which include the PBA conditions and some are more difficult than the PBA shots.
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2009-2010 Winter Season
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HS:645

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#94780 - 06/10/09 11:58 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6096
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I guess I misread that. But, in the houses where I bowl, the vast majority of leagues would be standard House shots.

Now, does that have to conform to other house oil patterns? If so, I see objection in our area. Why? Because there is a big competition for bowlers between houses, and the ones with the easier shots are currently winning. Bowlers will gravitate to the house with the higher scores.
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#94783 - 06/11/09 01:17 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Dennis Michael]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
Yep, "Come to Joe's Bowl, score high, tons of fun, no membership needed".

Erin

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#94794 - 06/11/09 06:53 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6096
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Oh no. They are USBC sanctioned leagues. But, I just shake my head and wonder why is it that 2 houses of the 13 in our association have over 60% of all of the honor scores.

I have only bowled in one of those. And frankly, I don't have a ball that I could roll on that shot. I'd have to replace all of my equipment with balls that are more relaxed. A fellow who I know that bowls in the other told me that no one uses a Virtual Gravity, and the house Pro Shop can't sell them because they are too strong for the lanes

A team left our normal house to bowl at one of these houses. I see a couple of those bowlers occasionally. All he does is rave about how much better they all are doing. But, he says it in a way that blames our normal house for not putting out a better shot. Of course, we disagree. But, his last year's 189 has turned into this year's 210. And, he says the "same improvement" has been experienced by the others as well. I just can't see how the entire team can jump 20 pins in average just by changing the house they bowl in, unless it is the house.

I guess if they color coded that league, it would be pink, for its prissy shot.
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#94800 - 06/11/09 08:58 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3351
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
That's not an improvement in the bowler, just an improvement in the score. If they just bowl for fun, that's fine. If they want more out of the sport, they're hurting themselves - not necessarily by bowling on the easy shot, but by not realizing that it's the shot creating those scores.
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#94843 - 06/11/09 10:58 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: cgeorg]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5639
A/S/L: 45/F/California
There are centers where it is dang near impossible to put out a very high scoring shot. The centers are so old, or the lanes not installed well, etc.....

Erin

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#94850 - 06/11/09 11:12 AM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Atochabsh]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6096
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I mentioned that I had the House averages of all men's leagues in each House of our Association. Now, there may be a difference between the experience and ability level from House to House. But, the spread was from 169 up to 202. That's a huge difference. My main House is at 187.9.

I do know that the House I bowl in is noted for cutting 10 pins off your average. And, I do have a higher average at other league Houses. I have a higher PBA average at another House.

This just leads to the speculation that there is no consistency between Houses, even on a House shot.

Then again, my main House just inspected the lanes, and found 17 of the 32 were out of level, and fixed them. So, I may have been bowling on uneven lanes for the past 4 years.
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#94895 - 06/11/09 02:56 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Dennis Michael]
Dan300 Offline
Team USA Hopeful

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 423
A/S/L: 39/M/Woodbridge, VA
What's funny, Dennis is that the way you describe your house, I'd almost rather bowl there because I'd feel better about bowling well on a difficult shot or lanes than on an easy shot or lanes. My competitive nature I guess.
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#94910 - 06/11/09 05:34 PM Re: Proposed new league and tournament conditions [Re: Dan300]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 4192
A/S/L: 29/m/maryland
Then center I've done the bulk of my bowling over the last two years is one of those houses that has all types of honor scores coming out of it. I think they even announced once that they had the most honor scores in the nation the previous season when handing out a 300 Jacket to the first guy to toss one after the New Year this season. The house is known all around as a high scoring house and some stay away from it for that reason but all manner of equipment is used there from the VG down to plastic(obviously straight bowlers using that).
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2009-2010 Winter Season
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