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#9457 - 06/21/06 12:59 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
cheetah Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 239
A/S/L: 29/M/Seattle, WA/Right-handed
Why can't the USBC put an asterisk next to the awards for pre-bowled scores in the same way MLB might put an asterisk next to Barry Bonds' records for his alleged steroid use?

Tim

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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
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#9458 - 06/21/06 06:03 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1905
A/S/L: 45/M/Long Island
because, in this country, your innocent until proven guilty. To me, if you prebowl, both teams should be there, pre-bowling with you. I dislike the whole prebowling thing. I always thought that's what subs were for?
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#9459 - 06/21/06 07:47 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
Smooth,

In the cases I'm refering to, individual prebowling is usually reserved for kids that generally can't drive and have numerous other activities to participate in.

As kids are bowling in guaranteed leagues and pay whether they are there or not, the courtesy is extended to allow them to prebowl. Trying to get 6-10 kids to agree on a time to prebowl would be like nailing Jello to a tree.
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#9460 - 06/22/06 09:10 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Smash49 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 203
A/S/L: 47/M/ Duncan Oklahoma USA
Ok all the hoopla about this guy everywhere is driving me crazy. He may have found a loop hole or he may have actually did it who cares??? Let's see him back it up somewhere else other than his parents center. Saying you did it is one thing proving you can elsewhere is a different story. As for pre and post bowling it's become a joke. I bowled in a junior/adult league a while back. It seemed like every week, half the league was pre or post bowling and this was a winter league. I had to do it once and nobody watched me. There was no one to say I knocked down anything. I just gave my scores to the desk and that was it. Now imagine what could happen if you are at the controls of everything! Bowling by appointment is a bunch of garbage and it is getting abused.

Smash49
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#9461 - 06/22/06 10:32 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
Mushtare will be bowling Jr. Gold this summer, so I'm sure there will be a huge crowd during squad 5. I'm thankful my son had already chosen a different one.

As for the prebowls, it gets a bit annoying sometimes, but as part of another A/J league, all I can say is that it keeps some of the families there that we wouldn't see otherwise. We bowl Sundays at 5 and between other sports, homework, and just about everything else, there's no way to ask for perfect attendance. Then throw in that nearly each bowls with a family member, and if one can't be there, they'd prefer to bowl together.

Of course, I've never had the issues of phantom scores, either. I'm sure people would notice and start pointing that out if it were to happen.
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#9462 - 07/06/06 11:29 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1905
A/S/L: 45/M/Long Island
Okay, I understand the youth prebowl thing. But I still don't like it. I think that they should do away with honor scores prebowled. This guy pre bowled 3................. THREE, 900 series. At his parents bowling alley. Only two were allowed. That is really a joke. I pre-bowled once in my life. I really felt like I was cheating. I felt like I couldn't miss. The lanes were fresh and untouched. Nobody to mess up my line. I bowled the easiest 700 series ever. If I really concentrated, I think I could've reached 800. The concentration was unneccessary. I knew the scores we bowled would hold up. They did. The other team was beside themselves when they saw our scores. I understood totally. I felt bad, but I didn't give the points back either. wink
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#9463 - 07/10/06 02:19 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
BBowler Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 34
A/S/L: 51/female/California
I just read BJ just put out their top 100 High School Prospects and Mr Multi-900 did not make the list.

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#9464 - 07/20/06 11:06 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Bama Slamma Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 73
A/S/L: 26/male/Alabama
Sounds like his parents put out a real easy shot, as in easier than your typical house condition. If his parents own the alley, they can "doctor up" the lanes for him. If they (his parents) want him to really do well, like go out on tour, they need to put out some tougher shots for him to practice on. Sport or PBA conditions would be best if that's what he wants to do. See how well he bowls on the tough lane conditions.
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#9465 - 07/30/06 10:19 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Silent Mike Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 998
A/S/L: 39/M/Poconos PA
I just saw a long piece on ESPN HD about this guy. They had another guy who rolled a legit 900 and I was surprised how horrible his foot work and delivery was, he even crossed over on the broadcast. Just something that struck me funny.

Back on topic, the kid looks like he can bowl well but when he bowled against others he was nothing like his prebowl scores. Two things I find very weird. One I did not realize his Dad owns the center. What better way to get free publicity and bring in more customers than to have some kind of controversy? Now this is conspiracy theory but if the score sheets were clean, lanes inspected the shot could be doctored and what if the old man helped clear some pins on the deck if there were only a handful of people in the building each time?

The second thing is the lie detector test. On air he was asked about taking one and he said sure, he has nothing to hide. Then at the end of the piece they said his Father is telling him not to take it saying he has everything to lose and nothing to gain. I see that differently, if he passes the test he has credibility to gain and doubters to lose even though people still would doubt it.

I say give the Father and the son a lie detector test. If and only IF there was some foul play it would take a 2nd person and no matter how good a friend is now you can fall out of favor and the truth will come out at some point, not so with a Father/son combo. With the Father owning the place and son setting these untouchable records it just does not look legit and more of a massive publicity stunt that stains the sport of bowling for personal gain.
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#9466 - 08/02/06 05:23 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Dizzy Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 64
A/S/L: 49/M/Pennsylvania
I'm in the "no honor scores for pre-bowling alone" group also. That one that the college bowler from New Castle, PA bowled shouldn't have been allowed when there were practically no witnesses and it wasn't even bowled in the center he was scheduled to bowl in that week. I'm impressed with the thought process and deeper analysis of this topic by many of you. It's not just blasting someone.

Now I'll say something a bit off the wall. The two legitimate 900's I know about aren't sanctioned. Glenn Allison's was turned down by ABC for non-complying lane conditions even though he was about the only bowler who did well that night on the pair and John Strausbaugh's was bowled in a non-sanctioned short-oil tournament in Columbia, PA across three pairs of lanes. Some of the other 900's are probably perfectly fine, but I've become less interested about hearing about them over the years.

I'm kind of embarrassed that an 889 was bowled on a condition I layed out, but it passed about 11 or 12 years years ago. I would have liked a post-score inspection of the lanes to make sure it was legit but that was in the era of pre-inspections already. That was Chad Steffy in State College, PA.(300-300-289)So close!

Clark

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