BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#9447 - 06/20/06 02:51 PM 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
BSchaff Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 09/21/05
Posts: 61
A/S/L: 23/M/Florida
Well, many of you I am sure have heard of Robert Mushtare the man who has claimed so many 900s I've lost count at this point. He submitted 3 to the USBC for approval, and the first one was rejected on grounds that neither the league nor Mr. Mushtare were USBC certified. Well, he's now apparently made history. Yesterday an article went up at bowl.com indicating that the USBC had approved his other two 900s he had submitted.

Does anyone here honestly believe this happened? I see it as a situation where if someone you know is guilty of a crime but you don't have enough of a case to put them away, they are presumed innocent *cough* OJ *cough*. I believe that theory can be applied here too, as the USBC may well have thought like the rest of us that something was fishy but couldn't pin anything on Robert, so they had to approve it.

I honestly feel bad for the kid, because he'll now have a crosshair on his back where ever he goes because nobody will believe he did this, whether he did or not. I wish him all the best in his bowling career, but it will be a very tough road for him now. Are we seeing the beginnings of one of the greatest bowlers ever, or the biggest fraud in the history of the sport? Time will tell, but count me in as leaning towards the latter at this point.
_________________________
12/25/05, 11:09 PM... the time I dropped two C-notes on the lanes for the first time.

League goals: 500 series, 150+ average. None down, two to go...

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#9448 - 06/20/06 05:49 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1905
A/S/L: 45/M/Long Island
From the limited videos I have seen of him, he isn't all that great. I think it is a sham and a bit rediculous. Give him credit for finding a loophole in the rules. With him prebowling 900's every week ( in a bowling alley owned by his dad with nobody in the place but him and his dad ), the 900 mark is becoming a bit meaningless. I feel worse for the others that get the 900 for real. The more prebowled 900's he gets, the more infamous he gets. His name is becoming mud in the bowling community.
_________________________
A Storm is coming.

IQ Tour Fusion
IQ Tour anniversary edition
Lights Out
Natural

USBC level 1 certified coach

Top
#9449 - 06/20/06 07:12 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
cheetah Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 239
A/S/L: 29/M/Seattle, WA/Right-handed
If the USBC did not do everything in its power to validate the two series, then it has effectively undermined its credibility as a governing body. If that is the case, this is a huge blow to the game. I just read an article that asked why the bowling community isn't using this as an opportunity to shine a spotlight on the sport. I think the fact that it hasn't shows how we all feel about this.

Tim

Top
#9450 - 06/20/06 11:23 PM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
I think USBC did everything it *could* do to determine whether these two were credible or not. The first one was administratively rejected as stated earlier in the post. I don't believe there's ever been a meeting between a proclaimed honor score bowler and the USBC and each set of attorneys. Both Mushtare and his witnesses were interviewed, and by current rules, there was no reason to reject the claim.

The problem is the rules that allowed prebowled honor scores to begin with (Remember the 900 prebowled in a different center during Cosmic bowling?). I don't see how USBC could have rejected the scores and not faced a huge lawsuit. And as much as everyone hates that these scores were recognized, I think they'd hate the idea of paying lawyers for a prolonged legal battle.
_________________________
BowlingFans.com
Angel Zobel-Rodriguez

Top
#9451 - 06/21/06 02:05 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
BSchaff Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 09/21/05
Posts: 61
A/S/L: 23/M/Florida
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by Angel Zobel-Rodriguez:
I think USBC did everything it *could* do to determine whether these two were credible or not. The first one was administratively rejected as stated earlier in the post. I don't believe there's ever been a meeting between a proclaimed honor score bowler and the USBC and each set of attorneys. Both Mushtare and his witnesses were interviewed, and by current rules, there was no reason to reject the claim.

The problem is the rules that allowed prebowled honor scores to begin with (Remember the 900 prebowled in a different center during Cosmic bowling?). I don't see how USBC could have rejected the scores and not faced a huge lawsuit. And as much as everyone hates that these scores were recognized, I think they'd hate the idea of paying lawyers for a prolonged legal battle.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">You are spot on Angel... Mushtare is actually quoted as threating legal action if the 900s were not approved in the paper. I think the USBC did not want to deal with any sort of legal reprocussions and just took the high road and awarded the scores in lieu of a lengthy, drawn out process. Kind of sad, but this is what we are left to deal with. Sort of deflates honor scores to most people, doesn't it? I know when I bowl an honor score it will mean so much to me I will keep it forever... as will any of us. But approving these 900s really damages the credibility of the sport.

But my issue is this... if this kid actually bowled the scores the USBC says he did, why aren't they shoving him down our throats? Bowling, more so than any other sport, needs a young "superstar" to get people interested. Surely Robbie is it... unless the USBC believes like the rest of us that this is a bunch of ****. Actions speak louder than words, and the USBC not endorsing this kid is about all that needs to be said. He deserves anything he gets in his bowling career.
_________________________
12/25/05, 11:09 PM... the time I dropped two C-notes on the lanes for the first time.

League goals: 500 series, 150+ average. None down, two to go...

Top
#9452 - 06/21/06 02:27 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
Honestly, as much as I'd love to fight for what's "right," in the case of a lawsuit I don't think they could win, I think they did what's best in the financial interests of its members. An ugly case with a personal-injury-type lawyer throwing out soundbites wouldn't do much for credibility of th sport either. As much as the scores are suspect, they can't prove he didn't shoot them when he says he did, has "witnesses," and the rules support prebowling. The carefully worded press release pretty much implied their hands were tied with the decision.

They're not shoving him for same reason that baseball doesn't exactly shove Barry Bonds down our throats. When we look to young heroes, we're looking for integrity, class, and talent. If USBC is going to start promoting young guns, I hope they start with the kids that make Jr. Team USA without the help of the legal profession.
_________________________
BowlingFans.com
Angel Zobel-Rodriguez

Top
#9453 - 06/21/06 04:46 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Jdhaze Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 235
A/S/L: 35/M/NH
They really need to remove awards for prebowling, its that simple and this is the hard lesson that has taught us that. Fact is when you prebowl you take away a lot of the challanges that normally happen in regular play. You can set your own pace, there is no pressure from others, and the lane conditions dont change nearly as much. I also think the USBC did all they could, however if they dont learn from this and alter the rules, it will happen again.

JD

Top
#9454 - 06/21/06 10:09 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
I only find the idea of removing the awards frustrating because the original reason for allowing the prebowls and makeups count for awards is sometimes a makeup isn't the bowler's choice, rather it's to accommodate the schedule of a teammate. In those cases, the potential award winner suffered.

With regard to the amendment at convention, it was sent back to committee to be re-discussed because of the needs of youth and the military (two large groups of prebowl users). With the approval of these questionable awards, you can bet that will go through first try next year. And the people with integrity suffer--people who don't take advantage of the rules and just abide by them. My hope is the rule is merely changed back to where when a league official is present, the awards stand. Of course, when your dad runs the center and your mom handles all the paperwork.....

I rarely find the conditions during makeups or prebowls are as favorable as for the leagues themselves. Leagues are oiled for, whereas prebowls and makeups are often on their 23rd hour beyond oiling or longer over the weekends, so the pressure is already there--the scoring pace is very different.
_________________________
BowlingFans.com
Angel Zobel-Rodriguez

Top
#9455 - 06/21/06 11:04 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Jock Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 406
A/S/L: 51/M/France, right handed
In one league that I bowl in over here, with regards to pre or post bowling, there is a rule where anyone who needs to pre or post bowl gets 20 pins less than their actual score because they found that everyone, without exception, bowled at least 20 pins above their average when pre or post bowling. Needless to say, now, everybody tries their hardest to be there on the night and thus have no need to pre or post bowl. smile
_________________________
I've upped my average, so up yours!



Top
#9456 - 06/21/06 11:36 AM Re: 17 year old NY bowler gets two 900s approved!!
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
That might be legal in France, Jock, but that would not fly here. There's no way you can legally concede pins.
_________________________
BowlingFans.com
Angel Zobel-Rodriguez

Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >



Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Leading with the ring finger...
by djp1080 - Yesterday at 10:21 PM
2019 Summer Leagues
by Dennis Michael - 08/15/19 08:37 AM
USBC General Playing Rule 18 Change
by Dennis Michael - 08/13/19 07:06 PM
Last Online 10 days ago
by BOSStull - 08/10/19 10:03 AM
PBA 2 Game Formats and Roll-Offs (No Spoilers)
by champ - 07/22/19 05:30 PM
Tips to get back to a semi-roller release?
by djp1080 - 07/21/19 07:26 PM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2019 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.