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#94293 - 06/05/09 03:21 PM
Re: Lane Dimensions
[Re: cgeorg]
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Legend
Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 1324
A/S/L: 49/M/MD
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I understand. That is why it is necessary to have more than one down lane target along the 6-degree angle. It would be possible to do a chart for every board, but that is not practical. So, my plan is to do charts for the 2.5, 7.5, and 12.5 boards. There may actually be a use for a -2.5 board (no oil in heads) and 17.5 board (oil from foul line to pin deck) chart, but fortunately, these lane conditions are rare.
How I see the different charts tying together is, as you described, when simply moving left and right leaves you with an unreliable line to the pocket. Chances are in these cases that the problem is not carrying, but actually hitting the pocket. For example, this can happen when the ball is going too long and hooking too sharp on the backend. This requires a downlane target closer to the pocket and further down the lane to compensate for the late, steep entry angle.
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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
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A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#94300 - 06/05/09 03:49 PM
Re: Lane Dimensions
[Re: Joe Bowler]
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Legend
Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 1324
A/S/L: 49/M/MD
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Below are the additional charts:
Breakpoint 7.5 board at 52.27 feet Arrows, Foul line, Ball Start, Feet Start 4, 2.69, 1.62, 9.62 5, 4.05, 3.29, 11.29 6, 5.43, 4.97, 12.97 7, 6.81, 6.65, 14.65 8, 8.20, 8.35, 16.35 9, 9.59, 10.05, 18.05 10, 10.99, 11.76, 19.76 11, 12.40, 13.48, 21.48 12, 13.82, 15.22, 23.22 13, 15.25, 16.96, 24.96 14, 16.68, 18.70, 26.70 15, 18.12, 20.46, 28.46 16, 19.57, 22.23, 30.23 17, 21.03, 24.01, 32.01 18, 22.49, 25.80, 33.80 19, 23.96, 27.59, 35.59 20, 25.45, 29.40, 37.40
Breakpoint 12.5 board at 56.48 feet Arrows, Foul line, Ball Start, Feet Start 6, 3.76, 1.98, 9.98 7, 5.09, 3.58, 11.58 8, 6.42, 5.18, 13.18 9, 7.76, 6.79, 14.79 10, 9.11, 8.41, 16.41 11, 10.46, 10.04, 18.04 12, 11.82, 11.68, 19.68 13, 13.18, 13.32, 21.32 14, 14.56, 14.98, 22.98 15, 15.93, 16.64, 24.64 16, 17.32, 18.30, 26.30 17, 18.71, 19.98, 27.98 18, 20.11, 21.66, 29.66 19, 21.52, 23.36, 31.36 20, 22.93, 25.06, 33.06 21, 24.29, 26.70, 34.70 22, 25.65, 28.33, 36.33 23, 26.99, 29.95, 37.95
_________________________
Career Highs: 300's: 7 800's: 3 House Avg: 239 Sport Avg: 198
Summer 2010: House Avg: 213 Sport Avg: 190
Arsenal: 16# Mutant Cell, Nomad Solid, Dark Star, Grenade, Ogre Particle, + WD Spare Ball
Motto: One Shot At A Time
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#94301 - 06/05/09 03:51 PM
Re: Lane Dimensions
[Re: Joe Bowler]
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Legend
Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3572
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
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What you are saying, in essence, is that instead of an optimum exit point, each pattern has an optimum target on the 6* line from the headpin. I haven't seen evidence to support either case, but I do trust Joe Slowinski more. In his article about the 3 point targetting system which includes exit point, he mentions that his pattern length - 31 formula came from a previous article, which I don't have. I'd be interested in reading that article, and I'd be interested to see actual data for both your theory and the exit point theory.
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#94303 - 06/05/09 03:56 PM
Re: Lane Dimensions
[Re: cgeorg]
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Legend
Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 1324
A/S/L: 49/M/MD
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What I am posting here is new research. I have not seen it anywhere else. That is not to discount Joe Slowinski's research in any way. They are not contradictory. Perhaps in time, I will find a way to mathematically correlate the two.
_________________________
Career Highs: 300's: 7 800's: 3 House Avg: 239 Sport Avg: 198
Summer 2010: House Avg: 213 Sport Avg: 190
Arsenal: 16# Mutant Cell, Nomad Solid, Dark Star, Grenade, Ogre Particle, + WD Spare Ball
Motto: One Shot At A Time
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#94335 - 06/06/09 12:00 AM
Re: Lane Dimensions
[Re: mkee19]
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Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6641
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
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Say Joe, our data must be on a spreadsheet format. It might be easier if you could attach the spreadsheet rather than copy the data. Just switch to full screen reply and attach.
I think I am getting what you are saying. thanks mkee for your 2 cent explanation. It was worth more then that.
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#94340 - 06/06/09 01:31 AM
Re: Lane Dimensions
[Re: mkee19]
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Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6641
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
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Am I understanding this?
Can't pull this up.
Edited by Dennis Michael (06/06/09 01:35 AM)
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#94342 - 06/06/09 01:51 AM
Re: Lane Dimensions
[Re: Dennis Michael]
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Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6641
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
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OK, if I understand this;
Your co-ordinates 7.5 - 52.27, and 12.5 - 54.48 are actually points on a 6* line from the pocket. Your charts indicate what you are calculating as the stance, release point and arrow target to get your ball to the 6* angle point.
Based on the chart and co-ordinates, you are creating a "turn angle" for lack of another term. An outside line is an obtuse angle, where an inside line is a more acute angle. So, based on your axis of rotation at the breakpoint, your ball will either turn on the 6* line, turn short or go long. By varying your stance and targeting, left or right, you are calculating the boards to stand on, the boards at release, and the boards at the arrows.
You are using the co-ordinates as a pivot, and turning the ball roll line from foul line to the pocket to gain the 6* entry angle.
Hope, I'm getting this.
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#94359 - 06/06/09 10:23 AM
Re: Lane Dimensions
[Re: mkee19]
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Legend
Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 1324
A/S/L: 49/M/MD
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What needs to be understood is that Joe isnt saying you need to use these, but they are simple numbers to help guide some people. Alot of bowlers have a mark at the arrows or dots, but no downlane mark. This could help people get the visual of the ball path. Yes there are alot of variables that can change what each bowlers chart would look like, but the general logic to it is pretty good. Given a downlane mark that would put your ball on a 6 degree angle you would need to aim along this path, or need to have this ball motion. Most advanced level bowlers can read ball reactions and decide on how to adjust the line. I dont think he's saying if you hit this target and start here yadda yadda, that you will strike. Besides nothing hurts to try once. Correction. I AM suggesting these are precisely the optimum targets and angles for lining up to throw strikes. The only variable for each bowler is your feet start position based on your size, style, and drift pattern. If the lane dimensions I have used and my math is correct, these charts represent all of the strike angles any bowler will ever need. Pick any ball in your bag, including your spare ball, and whatever particular release you want to use, and you can use these charts to find the optimum line for that ball and release. To the astute reader, these are the "keys to the kingdom". Further, I do NOT suggest you try to visually pinpoint the target downlane. It is enough to start in the correct position, release the ball at the correct spot at the foul line, and hit the target at the arrows. Without specific markers embedded down the lane, I believe it would be difficult to find the exact same spot on the next shot. Trust the math that if you hit two points along the intended line, it will continue towards the downlane target. How to use the charts? To start, find what your feet position is relative to your line. For me, it is 8 boards. That is what I used in the tables above to provide an example. If you walk a straight line, you can just add the number to the feet start position. Next, let's say you are getting ready to roll your first ball in an unfamilar bowling center and you know nothing about the oil pattern. I would suggest starting with the chart for the downlane target on the 2.5 board at 48.05. These angles are typical of most house shots. Roll the ball from 9.62 (feet start) to 3.21 (foul line) to 3 (at arrows). If the ball goes high, move your feet position, and targets at the foul line and arrows towards the inside of the lane in the exact increments described in the chart. By doing so, you are maintaining the same downlane target. If the ball is light, you don't have much room to move left, so you may need to adjust your downlane target. In this case, you would change to the downlane target on the 7.5 board at 52.27 feet. Depending how light the previous shot was you might try rolling the ball from 11.29 (feet start) to 4.05 (foul line) to 5 (at arrows) and adjust from there using the new chart. The same principle applies if the lanes are really hooking, and you find yourself running out of room on the other side of the approach. In these cases, you may need to move your downlane target further outside. I bowled on the Cheetah pattern last night, and found myself using the downlane target at -2.5 board at 43.83 feet. Hopefully, this helps to clarify the intent and usage of the charts. If somebody can tell me how to upload a document, I will provide a clean copy of all the charts above on a single page document along with the precise positions and targets for shooting each single pin spare.
_________________________
Career Highs: 300's: 7 800's: 3 House Avg: 239 Sport Avg: 198
Summer 2010: House Avg: 213 Sport Avg: 190
Arsenal: 16# Mutant Cell, Nomad Solid, Dark Star, Grenade, Ogre Particle, + WD Spare Ball
Motto: One Shot At A Time
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