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#93906 - 06/03/0909:32 AMRe: Lane Dimensions
[Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael
Legend
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6115
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
There are too many variables to standardize. But, there is probably data collected from the USBC robot that would be meaningful.
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#93910 - 06/03/0909:41 AMRe: Lane Dimensions
[Re: cgeorg]
Joe Bowler
Legend
Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 1063
A/S/L: 49/M/MD
Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I don't think there is any way you will ever find the pocket if your ball is on the 5 board at 50 feet on the Cheetah.
I am sure you have seen Parker Bohn hang the ball off the edge of the gutter at 45 feet on the Cheetah pattern. When it recovers, it is around the 5 board at 50 feet. Or how about Tommy Jones, who attacks the pattern from a steeper inside angle, but still gets the ball out to around the 5 board at 50 feet.
Originally Posted By: cgeorg
The problem is that the ball will continue to hook, adding entry angle, up until it reaches the pocket (on an ideal shot). This means that it might look more like
So, you cannot try to fit the ball path to a straight line coming from the pocket at 6*. It will be a curve, and the shape of that curve will be different depending on things like oil pattern, axis rotation, coverstock, lane surface, etc.
The point is not to calculate all of the possible arcs until the ball hits the pocket. It is to establish targets down the lane that will increase strike percentage. For example, if you are playing straight up the 5 board, on most conditions the ball will start to hook before it reaches 50 feet. It is still possible to achieve a 6 degree entry angle if the ball path merges with one of the other board/length combinations. HOWEVER, the target was still 5 board at 50 feet.
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PLEASE NOTE: The Approx Feet Start is a personal adjustment based on your size and style, drift, etc. For me, that is about 8 boards. The starting position is assumed to be the row of dots closer to the foul line.
Chances are your house shot plays a lot like this. I bet you will find your favorite line or close to it listed above. Hopefully, this will help everybody see where I am going with this.
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#93914 - 06/03/0909:54 AMRe: Lane Dimensions
[Re: Joe Bowler]
Dennis Michael
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 6115
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Joe, I've bowled with Tommy Jones in a pro-am. He has much more hand than I have. I would have to play 15+ boards right of him to hopefully hit the pocket at 5bd/50 ft.
So, how would you account for that?
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Joe Bowler
Legend
Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 1063
A/S/L: 49/M/MD
See the chart that I just posted, and start further to the outside of the lane. This will get you to the 2.5 board at 48.05 feet. I plan to do charts for the 7.5 board and 12.5 board, too.
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My bad for using the word "breakpoint". It seems to have caused some confusion.
The pattern length minus 31 is to help find the optimum exit point for an oil pattern. The numbers I posted represent where the ball would have to be before it hits the pins to obtain a 6 degree entry angle. These are not contradictory. On different oil patterns the ball path should merge with the 6-degree entry angle at different points. For example, Cheetah (36-feet) might merge on the 5 board at 50.16 feet, while the Shark (44-feet) might merge on the 13 board at 56.91 feet.
Erin, you are a great recruiter. If I am ever in California, I will look you up to help with the USBC certification process. For now, the numbers are based on standard lane dimensions, and should apply in most situations.
I'm still hoping somebody can verify my math is correct. It has been a long time since I have had to do any trigonometry. The next step is to calculate the precise boards where to stand on the approach, and aim at the foul line and arrows to merge with the optimum strike entry angle at the 2.5 board, 7.5 board, and 12.5 board. This is something I have never seen spelled out anywhere, and should be useful for adjusting to a variety of conditions.
maybe I am confused but isn't what you are saying the same thing that slowinski is saying with his pattern - 31?? At the end of the pattern that is when the ball hooks.. so if at a certain distance down the lane you get yourself to the board at which from that point to the pocket is a 6 deg entry angle.. this will provide the best carry... yeah you can carry from the 5 board at 50 feet but that angle is not optimum.
#94103 - 06/04/0912:11 PMRe: Lane Dimensions
[Re: J_w73]
Joe Bowler
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Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 1063
A/S/L: 49/M/MD
If I understand correctly, the pattern minus 31 formula is supposed to give you the optimum exit point for the pattern. For example, on a 40 foot pattern the ball should exit on the 9th board (40-31=9).
Here is the key difference. Slowinski is talking about the 9th board AT 40 FEET, the pattern length. If the pattern is 32 feet, he suggests the ball should exit on the 1 board AT 32 FEET, the pattern length.
What I have described are downlane targets that translate to a 6 degree entry angle into the pocket. The nearest downlane target is the 2.5 board at 48.05 feet, which the chart above details various angles at the arrows, foul line, and position on the approach to reach. Other downlane targets include the 7.5 board at 52.27 feet, and the 12.5 board at 56.48 feet. I am still working on the angles for those.
The purpose of this exercise is to answer the question where to stand and where to roll the ball to consistently throw strikes. Not just "if it hooks too much move in, or if it does not hook enough, move out". But, specifically how much to move in and out, and correspondingly adjust your target.
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right, but if both of you are correct shouldn't your target at a give length equal what the slowinski pattern length - 31 gives you. Since they are both showing where your ball should be at a given length and to get to the pocket at a 5-6 degree.
#94218 - 06/05/0909:03 AMRe: Lane Dimensions
[Re: J_w73]
sk8shorty01
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Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 2850
A/S/L: 25/M/Cocoa Beach, FL
j w73, I think the difference is, Slowinski is pointing out where the ball needs to exit the pattern to result in the best carry percentage, that doesn't mean you couldn't carry from a different exit point. Joe Bowler is pointing out where the ball needs to be down lane when it hits that 6 degree mark in order to find the pocket. For instance, the ball could need to exit the pattern at 9 board (example above) at 40 feet. If the ball was already at a 6 degree angle to the pocket it would overhoook and run Brooklyn. The ball can exit the pattern at 9 board and still get out to lets say 7 before it finally turns enough to make its move. Lets say 7 board at 48 feet. That means that both numbers can be right, they are pointing out different areas of the game.
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#94235 - 06/05/0910:43 AMRe: Lane Dimensions
[Re: sk8shorty01]
cgeorg
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3385
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
If it hits any of the points on that 6 degree entry angle line, it needs to roll out right there. So, the chart may be good for Chris Barnes. I like my ball to hook till it gets to the headpin, which means I will only merge with the 6 degree entry angle line at the pocket.
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