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#93377 - 05/28/09 08:16 PM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
spr3wr Offline
USBC Bronze Level Coach

Registered: 08/19/06
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A/S/L: 54/m/MICHIGAN
is this your scoot drill?

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
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#93384 - 05/29/09 12:08 AM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: spr3wr]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
That is the scoot drill, but never did it from one knee.

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#93404 - 05/29/09 10:00 AM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: ijohn83]
sk8shorty01 Offline
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Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5166
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
Also John, you should not be swinging the ball back and forth so many times. That can promote a lot of swing plane and timing issues. It is thought to be best to take the ball from straight down hanging, push it forward in the swing, then relax and let it swing back, then down into the release on the first forward swing. You can knock yourself off balance if you go back and forth so many times, not only that but you are putting more and more torque on your entire body with a 15-16 pound weight swinging "wildly" from your shoulder.


P.S. the wild is not a slight at you, just meant to be an expression.
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#93443 - 05/29/09 05:31 PM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: sk8shorty01]
Lefty Offline
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Registered: 01/30/05
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A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
You're also muscling the ball a lot when you're swinging it like that. Try to put the ball in to the swing with your left hand and act like your right arm is completely asleep.

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#93461 - 05/29/09 11:55 PM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: ]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
You make that look so easy!

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#93462 - 05/30/09 12:10 AM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: ijohn83]
ijohn83 Offline
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Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
On a side note, today was home time with the wife and adult kids. I got the bowling ball out and was doing the release drill to my daughter in the living room while we watched TV. I was able to have the ball drop off the thumb & not muscle pretty good. I was able to see my release well. If I would break my wrist the ball would drop off too early. If I had my wrist cupped too much I could not get the thumb to drop & the ball would not come off my hand. If I turned my wrist early my thumb would lock in the ball. If I had my wrist straight and inside the ball my release seemed perfect! I couldn't over throw without killing my daughter. I did this for about 45 min. and feel like I got some good practice in without even going bowling!

Two steps forward, one step back - I hope it shows up at the lanes tomorrow!

~ John

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#93480 - 05/30/09 12:23 PM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: ijohn83]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
John, in your drill video, you aren't looking at the ball. The only reason for doing this drill is so you can look at the ball the entire time and see where your wrist is in relation to the swing, stop looking at a target down the lane, just look at your hand.

The reason Ron doesn't have people do the drill from one knee is that the floor cuts off the arc of the swing. The purpose of the scoot drill is to teach the bowler to reach down and through the bottom of the ball, and "scoot" the ball through the heads. If you do that on one knee you will hit the floor and cut your swing off.

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#93492 - 05/30/09 03:37 PM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: CoachJim]
okorimbo Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 280
A/S/L: 86,male,SF Bay Area
Ritger uses a similar drill. The bowler gets down on one knee with the hand in the ball. Then, the bowler raises the shoulder to a level position. This raises the ball off of the floor... the swings then proceed as above. The ball will not hit the floor before being released onto the lane surface.
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#93524 - 05/31/09 02:03 PM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: okorimbo]
CoachJim Offline
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Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
This is why I don't like Ritger, they teach the same crap over and over even if it is wrong.

Learning to swing the ball with your shoulder up will cause an impingement to your rotator cuf region in your shoulder and wear and tear at it until you finally need an orthopedic surgeon.

Read Slowinski's article if you don't believe me and my partially torn rotator cuff issues: http://www.bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/june09_article.pdf and
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/swing_slot_btm_july_08.pdf

Don't get down on one knee, unless you are working on the release only, do not try to take a full swing from the knee, it teaches very bad habits that will cause injuries over time.

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#93530 - 05/31/09 03:08 PM Re: Ron Clifton's clinic Santa Clarita [Re: CoachJim]
okorimbo Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 280
A/S/L: 86,male,SF Bay Area
Jim
You misunderstood. First, No one suggests throwing a full power swing with your shoulder from a kneel down position. Even the scoot drill does not do this.. The drill is to enable the bowler to feel the release as it comes off the hand.
Raising the shoulder off of the floor to a level even with the other shoulder will NOT cause any undue strain on the rotator cuff. There is insufficient force in this motion to do anything to it. Rotator cuff injuries are generally due to excessive strain in overhead arm motions and not in underhand motion. The rotator cuff is comprised of 4 muscles...the subscapularis,the infraspinatus,the teres minor and the supraspinatus.They help stabilize the humerus in the glenoid fossa. Severe pain often is the result of impingement of the supraspinatus tendon around the AC joint. Degenerative changes in the cuff are frequently due to ageing.
As for needing a surgeon eventually, most RC injuries can be treated with rest and strengthening exercises. Complete tears may require surgery but otherwise this is generally a last resort treatment by most orthopods. My basis for these thoughts are based on my 45 years of medical practice and the medical literature I read. I am a retired military flight surgeon with numerous dealings with pilots and other hard-pressed soldiers It was unusual to require surgery in most of the cases. There are, of course, always exceptions.
Further, as for your denigration of Ritger, his record is sufficiently appreciated by the vast majority of the bowling coaching world and many top bowlers such as Kelly Kulick...to simply say "de gustibus non disputandum est."You might want to re-read some of the articles about top coaches in BJI.
Okorimbo

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