First up is Jordan, One thing I seen right away was he was leaving his post shot much earlier then usual I did mention it to him but he continued to do it off and on. He had another nice series and a new high game 215-192-181. The normal speed video is clearer but thought you might be able to see more in slow motion.

Now for me again series wasn't bad 175-188-186 I felt like I wasn't muscling the ball at all but after watching the video I see that isn't so. Also I thought I was holding the ball much closer then that. I know my new ball will help (Pro Shop was closed today) as you can probably tell my span is way to short so I decided to work on approach and swing before even thinking about getting my hook back.

I haven't even played your video yet, but the still picture that's showing is a perfect example of muscling. You arm can't bend like that if you don't muscle the ball. It takes the use of your muscles to bend your arm like that, especially with a 15-16 pound ball hanging from it.

If you can't completely relax your hand in the ball without it falling off, the fact that you have to squeeze the ball could be causing you to muscle it.

Now that I've played your video, you never let your arm straighten out at all. When you get set up, let your right arm, hand and shoulder go COMPLETELY limp. Make sure all of those muscles are completely loose and relaxed. Support the ball with your left hand. It should be so that if you moved your left hand out of the way, the ball will fall like a rock.

Now use your left hand to start the ball in motion. Then remove your left hand and keep your arm, shoulder and hand COMPLETELY relaxed. Let the ball swing all on it's own the entire time.

Then you'll see the difference between your current swing and a relaxed swing.

That is what I was trying to do Only I dont think I was trying to get ball into motion with the left hand and obviously I wasnt doing any of it. Must be old bad habits I cant even feel my arm is bent. I did keep asking Jordan if it was. I threw maybe 3 out of 30 some shots that felt good I could feel the ball leave my finger tips last and I could post up. Other then that they all felt like my video looks.

As far as Jordan goes is his timing a bit late? Looks to me like he is still in back swing when his slide is finished.

I was going to tell you Jordan's timing is late but you beat me to it. The telling sign is that in his second to last step (power step) the ball should be at the top of the backswing as the step compresses. His ball is still moving upward as he is transitioning into his slide. I believe his late timing is due to the extended push away. The elbow should only go slightly in front of the body, not an entire foot or so past. Think of the ball in the setup being at the top (or almost) of a ferris wheel. The ball motion should go out and down, or slightly up, out and down. It should not go up and out, sharp turn down. There has to be transition or the ball is going to pull on the hand and cause you to feel a sense of losing the ball and gripping it. If there is a smooth transition between forward and down then you do not have that sensation.

Ahh! that makes sense, I remember his coach working on his take away with him right before he left for vacation and they only got to work on it a few times.

Like I mentioned in other post I dont try to coach him to much, but this is something we can work on without messing up to much.

We should be hooking up with his coach again this weekend he has his bracket tournament Saturday. Believe it or not his post up is what mine used to look like I sure am a long away from that now lol. I think my knee was part of it this time though. I see from my video I actually was putting my balance arm on it must be some subconcious thing going on from where I hurt it last time.

Thanks again for the help all.

You're going to really have to force yourself to not use any muscles at all. Once you do it, it will feel VERY strange, like you're completely out of control. It's drastically different than what you're doing now.

You've got to make your self do it though. It's not something you'll ever just ease into.

I have been practicing at home trying to feel it. The funny part is I thought it would be easier to get back in the groove. At this time I really do not care about my score I do want to bowl decent just to give Jordan some competition so he works harder on his game.

But watching my video shows me how far I need to go, my body,arm swing and balance arm look nothing like when I bowled before. The only thing I got going for me right now is I can still hit my marks and pick up most of my spares. I just worry Jordan will pick up some bad habit from watching me. I do tell him do as the coach says not as I do lol.

Jordan:

His stance is too crouched, he extends the ball way too far out in front, this causes him to be late with the swing. If you look where the ball is in relation to his second step, you will see the ball is down at his side to slightly in front of him, his arm should be at his right hip here. This lateness causes him to force the ball down from the top of the back swing which causes numerous other problems.

See if you can have him keep the ball in closer to his body. Tell him to imagine there is a wall a foot or so in front of him, he doesn't want to crash the ball through the wall, but he does want to get the ball close to the wall and have the ball follow the wall down into the swing. The elbow shouldn't lock until the ball starts to fall back away from the wall. This will speed his swing up to where the ball should be behind him on the second step and free up his swing so he will not have to force it down from the top.

Rocket:

See above, you do the same thing, ball extended way out in front of you making your timing late. You now have something to work on together. Fix this then post another video, have patients, and make sure you do it enough to where you can repeat it without having to think about it.

One other thing, get your left hand off of your left knee, it is preventing your shoulders from squaring to your target line.

Thanks Much! I will print this out when I get home so we can work on it. That is what I was afraid of, Jordan got some of his bad habits from me. We both used to use a 3 step approach which was killing his ball speed. So when his coach had him switch I have been trying it as well just so it seems right to him. Yeah as far as my balance arm goes that was one of the first things I noticed when I watched my video back I actually used to post up like Jordan does now, so definetly will be working on that.

We have league tonight and probably practice Thursday and Friday Jordans bracket tournament is Saturday so definenitly will try to work some of the kinks out for him at least.

Thanks again