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#88150 - 04/16/09 02:54 AM Question about Bowling a Dummy Team
roddo4 Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 33
A/S/L: 46/Male/PA, United States
Thanks so far to everyone who has responded so eloquently to my questions. I appreciate the really useful knowledge that is being shared.

I have another question about leagues that use the Individual Match Point system in conjunction with the Team Match Points. If a league has an odd number of teams, obviously one team will bowl the Dummy/Blind Team each night. How do the majority of the leagues handle bowling against a Dummy? Do you have to beat your current/true average, or do you use your entrance average, minus a certain amount of pins, or is the Dummy Team filled with VACANT scores? And in the individual match point competition, does the one team have to beat the individual VACANT scores with the associated handicaps? And are there different VACANT scores for Females and Males in Mixed Leagues of this type?

I realize that I'm asking a lot of questions, but if I understand VACANT scores as opposed to ABSENTEE scores, it could be a little tougher bowling a match against a Dummy Team with Vacancies, than it would be playing against a scheduled team with a couple of absent bowlers?

Thanks in advance.

Roddo4


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#88152 - 04/16/09 03:02 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: roddo4]
Mattdean76 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 489
A/S/L: 34/M/NY
There are several ways to do it, starting with individual match points, You can have to be within 10 pins of your average to win your point, you can have to beat the handicap score for the vacant bowler, (which is similiar to it), I like the 10 pins of your average rule personally. Another option is with the vacant team, you can bowl against one of the teams next to you for your match points and game, so you would be up against a real team with real scores, but obviously the other team has their own matchup to deal with.

Leagues do many different things for establishing vacant averages. Some will set a standard number for all of them, like 160, some one for male, one for female, and some will use whatever the league average is after 3 weeks of bowling.

With the team game, it is usually within 40 pins of your average for 4 bowlers, 30 pins for 3 bowlers, or beat their handicap total with the vacant scores. Hope that helps you smile
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#88158 - 04/16/09 04:16 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: Mattdean76]
roddo4 Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 33
A/S/L: 46/Male/PA, United States
Good suggestions, Matt. Thanks.

Roddo4


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#88165 - 04/16/09 06:56 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: roddo4]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
In our league, you have to bowl your team average to win, 1 pin under to tie, against the vacant.
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#88172 - 04/16/09 08:48 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: cgeorg]
Steve Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 75
A/S/L: 27/m/IN
thats the same as both leauges I bowl in.


Originally Posted By: cgeorg
In our league, you have to bowl your team average to win, 1 pin under to tie, against the vacant.
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#88177 - 04/16/09 09:02 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: Steve]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9809
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Your team has to bowl within 10 pins of average for how many bowlers you have on a team. 4 bowlers = within 40 pins. If you are 41 pins under average as a team, you lose.

This also applies to a forfeiture. We had a situation where a team had only 1 bowler, and needed 2 to be legal. That team forfeited all games, but the opponent team was subject to the 10 pin per bowler rule to win those games.
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#88192 - 04/16/09 09:45 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: Dennis Michael]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Your team has to bowl within 10 pins of average for how many bowlers you have on a team. 4 bowlers = within 40 pins. If you are 41 pins under average as a team, you lose.

This also applies to a forfeiture. We had a situation where a team had only 1 bowler, and needed 2 to be legal. That team forfeited all games, but the opponent team was subject to the 10 pin per bowler rule to win those games.


Same for us.
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#88195 - 04/16/09 10:06 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: General Pounder]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
Same with our leagues Dennis...

As far as the individual/team league I bowl in, the team bowling against the VACANT team gets to pick any team they want in the league to bowl against. This makes your VACANT night more of a strategy because you have to make a decision on who to bowl against. Do you pick the low average team that is inconsistant? Do you pick the high average and depend on handicap? Do you pick a team that is close to your averages and go for the scratch win? It actually makes it pretty interesting.
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#88482 - 04/18/09 01:26 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: Mattdean76]
roddo4 Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 33
A/S/L: 46/Male/PA, United States
Those are all good suggestions. I do have a question concerning the scenario of playing against players/teams in other matches...are the lanes pretty consistent throughout the entire bowling center, that is, is it possible that, for example, Lanes 9-10 would have an easier scoring condition than Lanes 7-8? If so, then it might not be quite as fair to allow a bowler or team to choose which match he'd like to compete against--unless this would be a part of the strategy of bowling a Dummy/Forfeit team. I don't know how all bowling centers are, but I would think that if an early league bowled on Lanes 1-8, by the time the evening league rolled around, which may encompass Lanes 1-20, the oil pattern wouldn't be quite as consistent at that point between the first 8 lanes, and the next 12, in my example.

Am I way off base on this, or is this something that's a conceivable point? Either way on this point, I do agree with Mattdean's preference of the '10 pins of your average' rule, when bowling a Dummy/Forfeit match.

Roddo4


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#88483 - 04/18/09 01:34 AM Re: Question about Bowling a Dummy Team [Re: roddo4]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9809
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
All oil machines are set up to lay down the same oil pattern with the same amount of oil for the entire league. Saying that, I do know that lane 27 in our house has a slight hump in it about 45 feet down at the 10 board. That makes a difference to some bowlers.

We also had a situation where the house ran out of oil, and didn't oil the last 4 lanes this year, too. That should NEVER happen.

And, depending on how close the outside lanes are to the outside wall, they may have a tendency to dry out faster.


Edited by Dennis Michael (04/18/09 01:35 AM)
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