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#87799 - 04/13/09 06:57 PM Re: Womans series [Re: dmoney298]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
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I don't know about how the machines are controlled, but I would bet that most can't be easily programmed not to reset until all the pins are down. Even then, you'd need to keep score manually (which is fine by me - it's the first part that I think would require a very modern system).
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#87825 - 04/13/09 11:05 PM Re: Womans series [Re: dmoney298]
evilash71 Offline
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I loved it. I thought it was very interesting to watch. I also agree with the REAL WOMEN USE BRUNSWICK! Go Nation!
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#87860 - 04/14/09 08:05 AM Re: Womans series [Re: cgeorg]
Mkirchie Offline
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Originally Posted By: cgeorg
I don't know about how the machines are controlled, but I would bet that most can't be easily programmed not to reset until all the pins are down.


From what I know about the machines, which is very limited, it would be rather difficult and not cheap in any way, if at all possible.

I felt the scoring system was interesting, but I wasn't completely sold on it, mostly because except for the factor of the difficulty of the spare left, it eliminated 1st ball pin count from the scoring system. In other words, a 6/ is the same score as a 9/. As I was watching, I had this idea of an alternate scoring system, although it is not perfect either. Your score for a frame is the total number of pins you left standing after each shot in the frame, but you still only get 2 shots a frame. For example, a strike is a 0 for a frame, a 9/ would be a 1 because you left one pin standing on the 1st ball, and a 9- would be a 2 because you left one pin standing on both the 1st and 2nd ball. If you left a 6-10, and then chopped the 6 off of the 10, that would be a 3, two left standing after the 1st ball, one left after the 2nd ball. Do 10 frames just like they did, lowest score wins, perfect game is a 0. Only problem I see is that an 8/ would be the same score as a 9-.

Ok, I have another idea pretty much the same as above, but just like Petraglia's, you bowl until all the pins are knocked down, but your score for a frame is still the total of the pins you left on the deck after each shot of the frame. A strike is a 0. If you leave a 10 pin and take 1 shot to pick it up, that is a 1 because you left 1 pin after the 1st ball and none after the 2nd. If you miss it the first time, but pick it up the second time, it is a 2 because you left 1 pin on the deck twice. If you leave a 6-10 and pick it up the first try, that's a 2. If you first pick up the 6 on the first try and then the 10, that's a 3. This works out to be more fair in my opinion, it penalizes you for not making a spare on the first shot and gives credit for a better 1st ball.

Mark


Edited by Mkirchie (04/14/09 08:32 AM)
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#87877 - 04/14/09 09:20 AM Re: Womans series [Re: Mkirchie]
cgeorg Offline


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Another thing I thought of last night is that this type of scoring system would work much better in a mixed golf/bowling league. based on "par" now being alternate strikes and spares, par in the Petraglia system would be 15. Since 9 holes takes longer than 1 game of bowling, perhaps go 9 holes then 2 games. Say you shoot 40 for golf (par 36), and 28 for 2 games of bowling (par 30). You could either have a net +2, or you could weight the golf twice as heavily and have a net +3.

I think the main problem with the new systems would be that they are irrelevant for very low level bowlers who may take 7 balls to clear the lane. Then, do you implement some rule like "no more than 4 balls"? If so, Mark's system might work better and be more universal. Then again, with Mark's system, a gutter basically puts you out of the match, which (I feel) is too harsh a penalty, especially when playing patterns that force the player outside.
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#87906 - 04/14/09 11:56 AM Re: Womans series [Re: cgeorg]
Mkirchie Offline
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Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Then again, with Mark's system, a gutter basically puts you out of the match, which (I feel) is too harsh a penalty, especially when playing patterns that force the player outside.


True, I didn't really think of that one, it could have too much of an impact. I also agree that these systems would be bad for the lower level bowlers.

I know that Petraglia was trying to come up with a system that would make it easier for someone to understand the scoring of the game, and the easiest way to do this is to eliminate the bonuses for strikes and spares. Unfortunately, it then becomes tougher to devise a fair system. I had another idea, but I scratched it because it still has a bonus system of sorts, but I think it's more simple. Here it is. 2 shots per frame. A strike is a 0. A spare is 10 + the number of pins you left standing after the 1st shot in the frame. An open is 20 + the number of pins you left standing after the 2nd shot of the frame. 10 frames, lowest score wins. Perfect game is 0, worst possible score is 300, which I find to be funny.

Mark


Edited by Mkirchie (04/14/09 12:04 PM)
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#87909 - 04/14/09 12:19 PM Re: Womans series [Re: Mkirchie]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
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Seems like it would score very similar to the standard system, with the added bonus (IMO) that spares in certain frames don't count more or less than others. For instance, 9/ in the first frame followed by 9 strikes would be the same as 9/ anywhere else, with the rest strikes - an 11. With the current system, it could be 279, or 280, or 289, or 290, depending on when it comes. In fact, there would be no difference between throwing 5 strikes then 5 9-, versus throwing alternating strikes and opens, whereas there would be a big difference with the standard scoring method. Some might not like this - I actually do.
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#87919 - 04/14/09 01:25 PM Re: Womans series [Re: cgeorg]
Mkirchie Offline
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Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Seems like it would score very similar to the standard system, with the added bonus (IMO) that spares in certain frames don't count more or less than others.


That's what I was thinking too, that's where a lot of new people can get confused with the current scoring system. I happen to think it's not that bad of an idea either to have all frames count the same. Two weeks ago in league, I had 3 opens to start out my last game and then took it off the sheet for a 235 (don't ask). Last game last week, I had a clean game with a four bagger and a double and got a 231, it's tough for someone who doesn't understand the scoring to grasp that.

If you want to make it more like the current system, but keep the same idea, make a strike 30 pins, a spare 10 + the number of pins knocked down on the first ball, and an open the number of pins knocked down in the frame. Still bowl 10 frames. Then, your perfect game is still 300 and your lowest score is still 0. I crunched the numbers from my first 10 shots from the games that I listed above using this system, and my 235 would still be a 235, of course, but my 231 would have been a 252. Interesting.

Mark
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#87922 - 04/14/09 01:37 PM Re: Womans series [Re: Mkirchie]
sk8shorty01 Offline
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Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
I think the only problem with that idea is that the strikes are worth so much more than everything else. For example if you were to shoot a dutch 200 in standard game your score would go as follows:

X / X / X / X / X /
30 50 80 100 130 150 180 200 230 250

So you would shoot 50 pins higher because of the big strike bonus. Not bad but I still don't think its perfect.
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#87934 - 04/14/09 02:39 PM Re: Womans series [Re: sk8shorty01]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
sk8, is that a problem? Why should there be a difference between shooting 5 strikes followed by 5 spares, vs. throwing alternating strikes and spares, still 5 of each? Why should there be a difference between an 11 strike game with a 9/ in the first frame (290 with the current system) vs. an 11 strike game with a 9/ in the 5th (279)?
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#87942 - 04/14/09 03:00 PM Re: Womans series [Re: cgeorg]
Mattdean76 Offline
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I like the current system as is, there could be potential for a newer easier to understand system, the problem is making it fair. There are some novel ideas out there, but most don't seem to be fair in some form or another.
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