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#86540 - 04/03/09 10:49 PM NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc.
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 873
A/S/L: 39/M/New Jersey
I'm curious to see if anyone else from New Jersey has heard about this, it was announced by the house tonight before our league started. They said that all of the houses in NJ have been told by the state that 50/50's, raffles, pots, brackets, or card games of any type are to be stopped immediately. Any other states where this issue has come up?

Mark
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#86567 - 04/04/09 05:57 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: Mkirchie]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Uh Oh here come the fun police. I believe the 50/50 has been outlawed in MD for a while now, it still goes on, they just call it something different, like special drawing or something like that. Brackets are outlawed too, but they still go on, just not run by the people at the desk, so it doesn't involve the house in any way.

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#86569 - 04/04/09 07:48 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: CoachJim]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
We still call them 50/50s at the house I bowl in and it's announced by the front desk but not ran by the center. Same thing with the Survivor side pot that is ran by some leagues. Brunswick runs their own Strike Pot.

I think I heard about a crack down like this in parts of Pennsylvania a few years ago. I think it's ridiculous that they even worry about this stuff when there are so many more important things that need attended to.
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#86571 - 04/04/09 08:02 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Mkirchie Offline
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Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 873
A/S/L: 39/M/New Jersey
Interestingly enough, none of ours were ever run by the center, they were always run by the leagues. From the way the desk person sounded last night and the mechanic who I was talking to during league, even if the house does not run it, if it is discovered and reported, the house will be held liable for not stopping it.

What is lousy is that being our league ran the 50/50, that money went to the prize fund, so I'm expecting to pay a few bucks more for league next year, not terrible, but still not good.

Mark
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#86573 - 04/04/09 08:19 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: Mkirchie]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
I think the biggest issue that the State has is they can't tax the winnings so they figure make the people stop doing them. It's all about the money. It can't be about anything else. I've never heard of a fight or any illegal activities taking place due to any of the side pots.

I can see how the State can try to hold the centers liable since it is being done in their building but unless the intercom is used how will the center know what is and what isn't going on. Well it would make the 50/50 harder to do though without the intercom.
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#86579 - 04/04/09 09:30 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Illinois has many gaming acts in place and a set of regulations for the specific game, raffles, bingo, Lottery, Pull Tabs, Jar games, as well as books written for Riverboat Gambling. General Bracket wagering falls under the following, as long as it is NOT a syndicated gambling activity, which is run by a professional gambling organization or business for profit.

Sec. 28‑1. Gambling.
(a) A person commits gambling when he:
(6) Sells pools upon the result of any game or contest of skill or chance,
(11) Knowingly transmits information as to wagers, betting odds, or changes in betting odds by telephone, telegraph, radio, semaphore or similar means; or knowingly installs or maintains equipment for the transmission or receipt of such information; except that nothing in this subdivision

(b) Participants in any of the following activities shall not be convicted of gambling therefor:
(2) Offers of prizes, award or compensation to the actual contestants in any bona fide contest for the determination of skill, speed, strength or endurance or to the owners of animals or vehicles entered in such contest;

So, my interpretation would be the person (s) who run 50/50 or brackets would be guilty of gambling, as well as the operator/manager of an establishment who provides equipment to transmit information of such activity.

The participant in a contest of skill that offers prizes is not gambling.

Any entity may apply for an Illinois Not for Profit Gaming License where the proceeds are subject to 20% retention for Gaming Taxes, No person affiliated receives compensation for conducting such game, and the entire balance of proceeds are given to the winner (s), minus any allowable operating costs.

In addition, Sec. 28‑8. Gambling losses recoverable.
(a) Any person who by gambling shall lose to any other person, any sum of money or thing of value, amounting to the sum of $50 or more and shall pay or deliver the same or any part thereof, may sue for and recover the money or other thing of value, so lost and paid or delivered, in a civil action against the winner thereof, with costs, in the circuit court.
(b) If within 6 months,
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#86582 - 04/04/09 09:40 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: Dennis Michael]
Mattdean76 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 489
A/S/L: 34/M/NY
maybe the government can focus more on regulating the political corruption, instead of a focusing on bowling. It would be nice to see if they can get their heads out of their rear ends and do something good for a change.
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#86585 - 04/04/09 09:53 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: Dennis Michael]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
Sec. 28‑1. Gambling.
(a) A person commits gambling when he:
(6) Sells pools upon the result of any game or contest of skill or chance,


So I guess I will have to take down my pool of what day this pig of a woman (who has diabetes and mooches food all day at work from people) my wife works with will lose a leg. I think I will still have my wife bring donuts every day though.

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#86586 - 04/04/09 09:58 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: Mattdean76]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Originally Posted By: Mattdean76
maybe the government can focus more on regulating the political corruption, instead of a focusing on bowling. It would be nice to see if they can get their heads out of their rear ends and do something good for a change.


I am sure here in Illinois, the primary focus has been on corrupt politicians. I haven't ever seen any federal or State prosecutors roaming the bowling centers.

In my lifetime, I think the number is 5 State Governors have been convicted and incarcerated. But, no one running brackets at bowling.
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#86587 - 04/04/09 10:07 AM Re: NJ cracks down on pots, brackets, etc. [Re: CoachJim]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
[quote]
So I guess I will have to take down my pool of what day this pig of a woman my wife works with will lose a leg. I think I will still have my wife bring donuts every day though.


You are running a pool on what day she will lose a limb? Bringing donuts is manipulation of contest results. You could be in trouble with the Fun Cops.

It's like life insurance. You are wagering that you will die and collect the policy value before you have paid that amount in premiums.


Edited by Dennis Michael (04/04/09 10:11 AM)
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