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#85977 - 03/31/09 12:59 AM Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues?
roddo4 Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 33
A/S/L: 46/Male/PA, United States
Hello Everyone,

I really thoroughly enjoy reading all the posts and replies. There are a lot of great ideas and information that get reported. I'm curious as to the most popular types of Won/Lost League formats. What type of Won/Lost system does your league use, whether it's just straight Team Wins and Losses, Scratch or Handicap? Or does your league use the Match Point system, or Peterson Point system? I'm thinking about starting a league in the upcoming season, and am curious what the knowledgeable bowlers prefer. And if handicap, what percentage seems to be the best? We've had a problem with sandbaggers in the past, and I would like to get some input on a league format to try to control that problem as well. Thanks in advance.

Roddo4


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#85980 - 03/31/09 01:22 AM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: roddo4]
Brandon510 Offline
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Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1990
A/S/L: 28/Male/California/Philippines
Not sure what the point system is called but we do 7 point system in our league. We get 2 pts per every game won and 1 pt if we win total pts. So maxium pts won a night is 7 pts.

Our league always been i beleive 90 % of 220.
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#85985 - 03/31/09 01:46 AM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: Brandon510]
roddo4 Offline
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Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 33
A/S/L: 46/Male/PA, United States
Thanks for the feedback, Brandon. Actually, I may not have worded my post properly. You answered my question correctly. The Match Point system that I mentioned actually refers to individual match play between two competing teams, where bowler 1 on team 1 bowls against bowler 1 on team 2, and thus the winner of the game receives a point for his team. The same applies for all the other bowlers on the 2 teams for all the games bowled during the night.

Thanks for replying so quickly.

Roddo4


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#85989 - 03/31/09 01:55 AM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: roddo4]
Shale Offline
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Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 27/M/WI
A few questions that I hope dont hijack as they are somewhat related. How is your handicap calculated if this is your first league? What does 90% of 220 mean when calculating handicap if your average is 160?
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#85994 - 03/31/09 02:07 AM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: Shale]
Mattdean76 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 489
A/S/L: 34/M/NY
Originally Posted By: Shale
A few questions that I hope dont hijack as they are somewhat related. How is your handicap calculated if this is your first league? What does 90% of 220 mean when calculating handicap if your average is 160?


If it is your first league and you have no sanctioned average, you "establish an average" the first night and that becomes your average and is adjusted before the next weeks bowling and your handicap is recalculated. 90% of 220 is 220- your average 160 so 60, times .9 (90%) so it comes out to 54 pins. Note that all fractions are rounded down on your average, so if your average is 181.95, your average is 181.


as to the scoring, I bowl in 2 different 4 person mixed leagues with similiar scoring. Each of the 4 bowlers gets one match point for each game (based on who wins when handicap is added in) and each team game is worth 3 points total for a total of 7 points per game times 3 games is 21 points. There is also one point for high game (again with handicap) and then total wood (handicap). One league I am in is 3 for total wood, one is 1. As to handicap, most are 90% or 80% of any number from 200 to 230, depending how high the highest league average is.

Here is a scoresheet from my league with the 25 point system.



Here is the URL for it since it is small when imaged.

URL


Edited by Mattdean76 (03/31/09 02:10 AM)
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#85995 - 03/31/09 02:21 AM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: Shale]
roddo4 Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 33
A/S/L: 46/Male/PA, United States
Hi Shale,

I hope I'm understanding everything correctly. Answering the 2nd question first...a 160 average in a league that's 90% of 220 would calculate to a handicap of 54 per game.

The 220 is a base average for all bowlers in the league, and this average should preferably be higher than the highest average in the league. To calculate handicap, you take the 220 and then subtract your 160 average. The difference is 60. Then you take 90% of the 60--60 x .9 = 54.

The other question depends on the league's bylaws.

Some leagues will let a new bowler enter the league, and bowl the first night before figuring a handicap. Let's say the bowler bowls 3 games that add up to a 450 set. His average would then be calculated as 150--450 divided by 3 games = 150. With the average and handicap being calculated afterward, then this average/handicap would be added to the team's entering average/handicaps for the night, and the wins and losses would be calculated afterward. Then this new average, which will be used for handicap purposes, changes from week to week based on the accumulation of pinfall and games.

Other leagues might just assign a standard, 'New Bowler' average to be used until the bowler 'averages in'.

I hope this isn't too confusing. There may be other methods, but these are a couple of cases that I've encountered before.

Roddo4


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#85998 - 03/31/09 02:31 AM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: Mattdean76]
roddo4 Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 33
A/S/L: 46/Male/PA, United States
Hi Mattdean76,

Thanks for posting an answer to the questions about handicap and new bowler average.

I have a question about the Match Play system. Are teams allowed to switch their lineups from one game to the next, or do you just go with one lineup for the entire night?

Also, you mentioned 1 point for high game...is that high team game for a night, or high individual game for the night, between the 2 teams?

Thanks for the info.

Roddo4




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#86015 - 03/31/09 08:18 AM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: roddo4]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
From the USBC rule book: Rule 100K

Quote:

A match point league is one in which team position standings include individual match points. Match point leagues must follow these rules, unless the league has adopted a different procedure:

1. The team scheduled on the odd lane enters its lineup first.

2. No change may be made in the order of players in the lineup during a series. A substitute must take the replaced bowler’s position in the lineup.

3. When bowling against an absentee or vacancy, to win the individual points the bowler must bowl at least his/her average less ten (10) pins, unless the league rules have stated another number.

4. If each team has the same number of absentees and/or vacancies, the players present must be placed in opposition to each other for individual matches and the winning team credited with the points for the absentees/vacancies.



If one of two teams has an absentee or vacancy and a player on the opposing team is unable to complete the series, any game in progress shall be completed with no change in the competing team’s lineup. However, the lineup of the team that lost its player must be changed if necessary, to comply with the provision of Item 4 above for any subsequent game(s) in the series.


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#86016 - 03/31/09 08:26 AM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: Lefty]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Also, for match point systems, the balance I like the best is where the total of the indididual match points is equal to the game points. So if you have a 5 man legue and each match point is 1 point, the overall team game would be worth 5. Then individual totals and team total would be double that. Individual totals being 2 and team totals being 10. That way you don't make either the individual bowling or team score more important than the other.

From the various leagues I've bowled in, a system like that has seemed to work out the best.

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#86067 - 03/31/09 12:16 PM Re: Type of Won/Lost Points Systems for Leagues? [Re: Lefty]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
In our match play league its a 4 person teams and is 28 points a night. 2 for each game (both individual and team) so thats a total of 8 total points awarded each game, then 1 point for total pinfall (both individual and team) which gives 4 points total. This seems to work out pretty well. We also adopted a rule where the team with the lower average gets to put their lineup in last.
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