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#84985 - 03/22/09 06:41 PM is this right???
oppsimissedthat10pin Offline

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 20
A/S/L: 15 m united states
i bowled in the second round of the pepsi state tourney (placed 13th). there was a 17 year old one the pair next to me, he said he avered 160 and was getting 45 pins handicap per game, so he shoots 278,192,250,240,278,210 he got called a sandbagger by many people and took first in my divison 12 and up what do you think about this?

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#84986 - 03/22/09 06:52 PM Re: is this right??? [Re: oppsimissedthat10pin]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Were those scores scratch or with handicap? What average did you have to use a previous season's average or a current season's average?

It's not unknown for people to sandbag but sometimes people have a good day. Maybe he bowls in a tougher house and the shot you bowled on was much easier. It's kind of hard for us to say he bagged or not since we don't know the kid, where he bowls or anything about him.
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#84993 - 03/22/09 08:09 PM Re: is this right??? [Re: ]
oppsimissedthat10pin Offline

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 20
A/S/L: 15 m united states
scratch scores and this seasons average

Edited by oppsimissedthat10pin (03/22/09 08:09 PM)

#84995 - 03/22/09 08:34 PM Re: is this right??? [Re: oppsimissedthat10pin]
Lefont Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 187
A/S/L: 35/M/Atlanta
People sometimes lie about their current averages and if the organization folks are not pro-active about making sure they turn the correct averages, sometimes they can fall through the cracks and take advantage of it.

I've caught people lying before in tournaments and reported them.
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#84996 - 03/22/09 08:37 PM Re: is this right??? [Re: oppsimissedthat10pin]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
Most people are not good enough to sandbag that big. Especially at 17. 160 may not be his actual average but he may have just had one of those days. I can see why people would say something. Averaging over 240 for 6 games and only having a 160 average.
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#85006 - 03/22/09 10:49 PM Re: is this right??? [Re: oppsimissedthat10pin]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
The averages are based on last years book average, so the kid must have done his homework and practiced and got some coaching, good for him. Kids learn fast and can make large jumps in average in a short period of time with proper coaching and equipment.

Many of the kids I coach are doing the same thing.

#85015 - 03/23/09 12:22 AM Re: is this right??? [Re: CoachJim]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I agree with Jim....again.

When bowlers settle down and decide to really work on their game. They get private lessons, they practice, they keep their equipment in condition and they improve quickly. I improved 28 pins over an 8 week summer. That's with weekly lessons and nearly daily bowling. It happens not just with kids.

But the tournament should have a 10 pin rerate rule. If your current average is 10 pins or more you must rerate yourself. If it doesn't then its not the kid's fault he was able to take advantage of weak tournament rules.


#85029 - 03/23/09 06:20 AM Re: is this right??? [Re: Atochabsh]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
I think it does have re-rate rules, but as of early november, so the kid may have been struggling with the new lessons and things clicked after. Also the lane conditions might be harder where he bowls, it's not like most houses put any kind of a shot down for the kids to bowl on, and they may have had a cake shot down for the tournament at least it was cake for him.

#85030 - 03/23/09 07:16 AM Re: is this right??? [Re: CoachJim]
4StepShaun Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 82
A/S/L: 34/M/Rochester, NY
A 160 average bowler should not have a 700 in his life, not to mention two 720s in a row including 2 270 games. A fluke game here and there, sure, but not with that level of consistency.

It would not surprise me if he has a 'goof around' Saturday morning sanctioned league with that 160 average and he's averaging 220 bowling for his high school team.

#85031 - 03/23/09 07:53 AM Re: is this right??? [Re: 4StepShaun]
dmoney298 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 183
A/S/L: 27/M/Baltimore, MD
All very valid points but I see this as more then just a good day. I average 190 and I cant put up scores like that.

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