I wonder if anybody on this forum was actually at the TV finals and saw what the "young man in the yellow" did?

The first time, some person in yellow got up in the middle of his shot and went to walk out but realized, late, what he was doing and sat back down real quick.. Randy wasn't happy.

The second time, a person in the stands sneezed or coughed just as Randy was in his third/fourth step and he said he couldn't stop but the noise was enough for him to pull his head up a bit and not be able to concentrate on the shot and grab a little bit at the end of it.


PBA, however, was not to happy with Randy's actions toward the people, especially with the second incident where he took TV time to say something to the fan, in a very condencending way.

But it is a sport and these kind of things happen, I do think that Randy did over react a little bit, it isn't like a league bowler bowls in a quiet seating every week, we have to deal with those noises and sometimes have it even worse with drunk teammates.

I agree joe. I remember I think it was at the beginning of the season. Some fan took a flash picture of Walter Ray just as he was about to release the ball. And Walter blinked and pulled up out of the shot and left the big four. And Walter kept his composer on camera lol I don't know if he said anything off camera.

If I were bowling for big bucks, I would seriously consider ear plugs if noise bothered me. I think though that the thing that really spooks the pros are flashes and movement from people in the bleachers that are located forward of the foul lines, something we thankfully never have to deal with.

I get bothered if a person on my left side within 2 or 3 lanes of me (I am left-handed) goes at roughly the same time I do but gets ahead of me. If I can't block it out, I stop and I can successfully stop at any point prior to release. I don't come to an abrupt stop I just swing without releasing until the ball comes up and I bring it in. Happens about once every couple league sessions. I almost always make a very good, focused shot on the retry for some reason.

Maybe Randy and I should try those peripheral vision blinders they put on race horses.

I agree with you guys to a certain extent. But there are some people that don't seem to realize that Randy was bowling for money and had a lot riding on the line. I think from what I observed in in general about today's generation is that most people lack consideration for the other person and a lack of manners and respect. Us league bowlers are not in the situation where Randy was where he had everything on the line. I guess that I'm just too old schooled but right is right, people should have been considerate of Randy's wishes the first time there was an incident. And the PBA should do something to fans who just flash their cameras at a bowler's most crucial time. I think that they should only allow photos taken at certain time. And the tv finals was definately not the time and place to flash cameras.

Well I commend Randy for staying as cool as he did. I would have jumped into the stands and chased that guy down lol

Don't get me wrong but Randy did have a lot riding on that shot. Mainly his career and exempt status. Which is more the reason why I think something like that shouldn't have distracted him, but then again I am not in his position during that shot.

The only thing I can relate it to is my Mini-eliminator finals appearances, my ABT Finals Apperances, and my league Roll-Off appearances, in a legaue where first place is rewarded with a check for over $1,500 per member.

All of which I have had to deal with people screaming, belching, talking loudly and even the jacka$$ who likes to drop his bowling ball on the lanes, during the opponents backswing.

PBA bowlers like Randy SHOULD NOT be getting all upset about this.

Randy is Randy and SHOULD stick to broadcasting.

It's not like Randy has been in every final. He has been on the bubble the whole year.

Randy,.....get over it

I don't think he should stick to broadcasting, I do think he should check himself at the door to make sure that he is mentally prepared. But in this format of the PBA everyone deserves a chance, if we don't give that, then we will see the same 7 people every single week bowling on TV, how fun is that too watch.

Hey SDBowler are you a big of an Earl Anthony fan as I am. I like the fact that you used Earl as an Example at the end of your post. I made me wonder if you are. Yes I totally agree that Earl would have not let any kind of distraction bother him. You got that right about Earl. I strongly feel the Earl is the greatest bowler that ever threw a bowling ball. Yes Dick Weber is one of the greatest ledgends, but in my book Earl is tops. I have a big shrine of Earl in my apartment and has been a big inspiration to me and my bowling. Let's keep in touch sometime.

Okay, let's talk a bit about the mental game.

Part of training is not just in the delivery of a ball. We must also train ourselves to deal with distractions. Randy should not be in the finals on his exceptional performance alone. The mental game must also be at a level above other competitors.

A flash from a camera is a physical hinderance to the bowler. It temporarily blinds the person and will effect their delivery.

Movement by a fan is a distraction that he chose to allow to have an effect on his performance. If he allows that type of interference in his delivery, he better learn to grab and retrieve the ball like I have seen Chris Barnes and Norm Duke do many times. Otherwise, he needs someone to swing a bright yellow flag one lane away so that he can be trained to handle it.

Tiger Woods father knew that Tiger would end up at a level above other players. During training, he would occasionally throw a club in front of Tiger on his downswing to 'toughen' his focus on Execution and not his surroundings. I would say that it worked.

What does everybody here think of the way Randy handled the situation??

When he picked the people out of the audience, and basically started to demean them on national TV.

I think, if anything, he should be benched from competition for that. That showed me that he isn't a true competitor, granted I would have wanted to rip those people a new one, but I would remember that I am a professional and that I am getting paid to be hear on national TV.

What does everybody else think of it?

Well, I can't remember the exact scenario, but I believe that last time, prior to this past week, I saw Randy Pederson bowling on a televised broadcast, something else distracted him from the stands then too. It was like last year or so, but he again was distracted and blamed failure to execute on that.

This year, I wasn't surprised to see it happen again. I'm sorry he seems hyper sensitive to outside sounds and movements because as someone above mentioned, he's a great bowler or he'd not have gotten there. He seems the type of bowler that hypes himself up, for reaction after Execution, by running out strikes for example. This may also make him hyper sensitive when he has to be settled down and execute. I know he bowls in most of the tournaments, we don't know what happens during the week. Maybe he's similarly distracted during the week too? I do think it was very unprofessional of him to vent his frustration pubically. The pressure of PBA bowling is great, but these guys are supposed to be up for it. That's why they are PBA and we arn't. Look at all the times Chris Barnes had his game won and failed to execute for whatever reason. He was always frustrated but never exhibited temper as we saw this weekend.

On the other hand, it was very refreshing to have Brian Voss in the commentary booth.

Erin

Yeah I enjoyed BV in the booth

You mean you guys actually BV doing the commentary.

I don't know what it is, maybe I'm just not used to his style, but I don' treally like the way he talks into the mic during the game, it is like he is trying to be to quiet. I did notice that everytime Norm did something over the average, or over the emotion, BV responded to it. Talk about taking a side while doing commentating.

I think I would rather have had like Carolyn Dorin-Ballard doing commentating, I have heard her on a few of the PWBA telecasts and she does a great job, either her or her sister in there.

I like the idea of having Carolyn Dorin-Ballard doing the commentating.

I see both sides of the issue. I know it was Randy's last chance to be exempt for next year ( except for tour trials). I'm sure the pressure of that was great. Add to that, he needed 3 strikes in the 10th to tie it. He gets the first two, on the last shot to earn the chance to go into a roll off he gets distracted by a loud noise. If it was real quiet and then there was this loud noise, then I could maybe understand that he would be upset. To berate the person on TV was a little overboard.

I thought he threw that last ball pretty good. I didn't see a 7 pin coming.

He did throw that last ball, very well. For whatever reason, it didn't carry.

Had it carried, we'd not be talking about this now. We'd have gone onto the roll off and who knows what might have distracted him then.

Erin

From looking at the telecast (which I taped) it appears to me that the last ball was just a tad fast (ball speed). That could explain the 7 pin leave...or it could have fallen. ::shrug::

Erin

I wonder if there was even a person up in the stands that did something. I wonder if Randy just made it up because he messed the shot up.

Just a little something for everybody to think about.

Just a few thoughts on this.

Despite the distraction, he didn't make a bad shot. He did much better than Tiger Woods did the same day when he went ahead and shot his second shot into the bunker on 17 when the car alarm went off for the second time. Tiger backed off the first time the car alarm went off, then decided to try to ignore it the second time and shot a real stinker.

While I can't confirm this, people who claim to have been there claim that it was not an accidental cough and that the noisemaker celebrated the miss. It is widely reported that the person was escorted out which would have been unlikely if it was simply an accidental cough.

If it was an intentional attempt to distract, I would have been mad whether I missed and made the strike, but if I made it the exhilaration of the tie probably would have distracted my focus on throttling the perpetrator until later.

I wonder what Marshall Holman would have done?

Holman would have charged the audience, taken a video camera from one of the guys one the floor, and throttled the person on National TV, while Yelling.......COUGH NOW BI$$$!!!!

Ok so that is a little over teh top, but a few years back before I got my temper in check, that is probably what I would have done.

I watched it on Strike Pass last night; I did feel a bit sorry for Randy, he put everything into that game and just did not get the break when he needed it most.

I guess he should just have bit his tongue and put it all down to experience but it must have been a crushing disappointment for him which no doubt led him to say things that he would not normally say.

He probably thought that it was his week with the sudden re-instatement and bowling so well to make the telecast, now if he wants to gain exemption next year he needs to bowl tour trials which will be no fun. Still it’s an ill wind as they say and Tore lives on.

It was certainly an excellent telecast, I love watching Norm Duke, he is a little guy like me (although I am a bit more rotund) and he makes it look so easy. He just has the knack of working things out but in the end he came up against an inspired Jaros and a pocket 7-10. Also don’t mean to decry Steve Jaros but he is one of those pros who you sort of think “well I could do that”. I can’t of course but even at my age I can dream!

I'm happy that Jaros won his major finally, I have bowled with him at Fox Lanes a lot since he starting bowling on the Tour, even since before that. He still drills my equipment for me when he comes home to see the wife and kids at their new house.

I'm thrilled for Jaros too. A couple of weeks ago, when his wife and twins were in the stands, my heart ached. It was the quiet statement that it might be the last time they see Daddy on TV. By winning a major, I'm very eager he'll be on Tour for another year. Jaros is the type of player that is very fan friendly, and remembers a fan between tournaments.

I am happy Jaros won also. Good for him on his first major! I recorded the show on TiVo, I didn't hear anything, although it is apparent it happened. I felt it was a great shot and should have carried. I would hope that someone is not so low as to intentinally cough just to ruin another persons hopes at such a great accomplishment. Very sad. Norm had a tough break, too. Man, that guy is a class act. I thought it was cool when he, "Shished", the crowed so Jaros could finish up. Outstanding.............

The "young man in yellow" was probably not paying attention but at least he showed that he realised his mistake and that it wasn't intentional and sat back down.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by Buck Rabbit:
While I can't confirm this, people who claim to have been there claim that it was not an accidental cough and that the noisemaker celebrated the miss. It is widely reported that the person was escorted out which would have been unlikely if it was simply an accidental cough.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">What's wrong with people these days, is it really funny or enjoyable to cost someone his career? That's just plain cruel.
Could the person have been betting or something?

Finally someone who here agrees with me on this subject matter. I completely agree with you on this Flamenco. I hope that you read one of my posts on this matter. People of this generation just show total disregard for the other person. And that's one of my pet peeves that I just can't stand is somebody being flat out rude and inconsiderate. I often wonder what's wrong with people of that mentality. At first my first instinct would be to find this person who made the noise and meet him outside and then beat the stew out him. And then look at him through his eyes and then ask him "Do you really realize that you cost me an exemption and my career. What the heck is wrong with you? Didn't your parents teach you any manners at all on how to be considerate or are they the same as you?" But then I realize at the same time that beating the stew out of this person would not solve anything and that it won't change him, but then this person just hasn't messed with the right person. Just my tow cents worth.

Agreed Mary Allen.
I believe that such disgusting behaviour exists in people of all ages. But I think that this attitude is more apparent in the latest generation due to a lack of good parenting(or any at all).

Parents these days are just kept too busy trying to provide a good life for their children that they loose sight of what is more important: good morals and a good code of ethics to live by. Many shun the responsibilities of proper parenting and instead placing the blame squarely on the media, games, music and whatever else they can think of.


Back to the topic of Randy:
I've read many of the previous posts and I agree that Randy is a professional and should hold himself to a higher standard, HOWEVER he is still human. Right now it seems like he needs to win to prove to himself and the world that he is not over the hill and 'just' a commentator.

Naturally in such a position there is much more stress involved. Add to it that the TOC was his last chance this season for an exemption through a win and the need to strike out in the 10th frame there is immense pressure and stress involved! Not to mention the huge prize money.

Then there is the factor of human perception. For example: Like no one can ignore a flashlight in a dark room; it's the same in the arena setting, everyone remains dead silent and motionless then suddenly there is some movement or a noise, it just jumps out at you.

Yes his behaviour was bad. But please try to empathise more with Randy's plight and not just dismiss his behaviour at face value.

Ya know, I don't often loose my cool in this forum and I try to keep it light (humorous).

But, if we're going to make general (and negative)statments about people and "this generation"...count me out.

Rich Williams
I'm old...but alive...previous generation?
(and proud of the "current generation" whatever age group that would be.)

Agreed, Coachrich.

Mary Allen, you're virtually my age, and people of "our age" do indeed still instill values and expect behavioral guidelines in our children.

There are bad apples in all ages, and it's not because their mommas didn't raise them right.

Thank you Angel, I, myself being 25, do believe that I have the manners to obey rules and have more ettiquette than the 40 somethings on my thursday night league, and a lot of the guys that I run into on the ABT tourneys.

I came from the old school. And when I was a child that if I showed any bad manners or was inconsiderate of anyone, my father would warn me. And just from the sterness in his voice scared me to stop my behavior. But there had been a time that I would disobey him and he would get his belt or a switch and whip some sense into me and from that day forward I never behaved in that way ever. I turned out ok I think even though I had strict parents. So I now thank my father for instilling into me to be considerate of others in every way shape or form.

I don't know about you but I get pissed at parent's who have children that wlak all over them.

I even said to a parent once, that you better spank that kid or discipline him or he is goign to be out of control.

Her response to me " I will sue you if you ever try to tell me how to raise my kid again "

It is sad that this is the generation raising our children now.

Hey Joexeception I totally agree with you on that one. There are kids that need to be put in their place and under control. In today's generation it's the children that are the products of their parents that don't discipline their kids. I spank my kids when necessary and if someone were to tell me not to spank my kids I'll kindly tell them to mind their own business. People who say "I'll sue you if you ever try to tell me how to raise my kid again" or "don't spank your kids" are the ones that you see on Maury or some talk show the feature parents that are scared of their children that either beat them up or threaten to kill their parents. And you know what I don't feel sorry for those parents, because they practically brought it on themselves. I have two girls and they respect me and because I disipline them when they need it I have very few problems out of them. And my girls love and respect me and see me as their role model.

I will tell you that I am a court officer. I work in the court rooms with judges all day long. I work in Family Court, so I see this very subject all day long. It is a touchy subject. I am from an old fashioned west indian household. Very Strict. I grew up living in a household where it was accepted that if you stepped out of line, you got punished for it( a beating ). In my household, you spare the rod-you spoil the child.

Now move to 2005. Be very careful how you treat your kids and who you tell about it! For your own good. I don't know what the laws are like in your town but here in NY they frown upon capital punishment. Many parents have been brought to Family Court on Neglect charges for the very thing your talking about. Kids have been taken away for this very thing. While I know the value of discipline. I also know the law. If you hit a child enough to bruise or not even bruise, just to have the kid complain to the wrong person and you won't have to worry about being sued. You might have to worry about going to jail.

I also take exception to putting everyone into one group. I see many kids in court of all colors and all money categories. If the parent doesn't show the child the proper attention then they have discipline problems. I also see many people from all age groups that could learn a thing or two from some kids from today. No manners. I have held the door for people and they walk right through and say nothing. Not kids, grown folks older than I.
I call that stereotyping. I argue with my mother in law about this all the time. I tell her to be very careful. Times have changed.

This is real interesting, but it has gotten a little off topic. I wish Randy a lot of luck at tour trials.

Hey smooth stroker, looks like we grew up in very similar households. I am from a more traditional chinese household, where my parents also believed in "spare the rod spoil the child". But I have to point out to everyone that when I had rare inspirational moments where I did something good, my parents would not hesitate to reward me.

Personally I benefitted from such treatment. I have to admit that I was absolutely awful as a child, I constantly got into fights at school, with my parents and destroyed furniture etc and generally caused my parents alot of grief. I did not get intimidated by scoldings or warnings, only spanking could me put me in my place. I love my parents for that.

While I do not support spanking for all, I do believe that in certain cases with certain children(like me) it is needed.

One of the reasons I support the view that many(not all) of the latest generation behave badly is because I have spoken to many teachers in my country and the response is that more and more parents threaten to sue at the drop of a hat. There are some that won't even allow the teacher to scold the child at all claiming that it causes trauma! Its like what JoeXception and Mary Allen mentioned. Some parents are getting overprotective of their children to the point where they do not discipline them and even become afraid of them. I do not know what it is like in your respective countries, but this is what's happening here

While there are bad apples of ALL age groups, I believe there is more violence and misbehaviour with the latest group of youths due to lack of proper parenting.

Hey all, I grew up scared to death of my dad. I didn't get the beatings, but I knew when I pushed my luck too far. A stern look was enough. I got my shares of spankings, but I also grew up and am drug free and have no criminal record. I rarely spank my two, only when they seem to forget who the boss is...My reward..., "Wow, your kids are so polite and have manners...". I get pretty torqued up over these kids on Maury, etc. Unfortunately we have no say over others kids, we can only raise our own to know wrong from right and which decision is best. We can only hope our kids do not fall in with the wrong crowd when they reach their upper teens. Anyway, Randy got robbed! Congrats again to Jaros.....

Randy Peterson is a great bowler but a stiff fine is in order for his excessive histrionics following his match--His exempt status was on the line, but lets face it, hes got a network job to fall back on every week--Peterson has been a touring pro for 20+ years, so he certainly is aware that his behavior was over the top--Getting momentarily upset is understandable, but a meltdown like that is the definition of unprofessional--
As for Brian Voss as a commentator,uh,well, all i can say is "stay in front of the table"--- :rolleyes:

I didn't mean capital punishment, I meant corporal punishment.

heh heh Smooth....I was gonna say *I* would be afraid to grow up in a family that utilized capital punishment on their children

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by Mary Allen:
I agree with you guys to a certain extent. But there are some people that don't seem to realize that Randy was bowling for money and had a lot riding on the line. I think from what I observed in in general about today's generation is that most people lack consideration for the other person and a lack of manners and respect. Us league bowlers are not in the situation where Randy was where he had everything on the line. I guess that I'm just too old schooled but right is right, people should have been considerate of Randy's wishes the first time there was an incident. And the PBA should do something to fans who just flash their cameras at a bowler's most crucial time. I think that they should only allow photos taken at certain time. And the tv finals was definately not the time and place to flash cameras. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">I agree with some of what has been said on this thread about Randy Pederson. Especially what Coachrich and Erin commented was right on the money. I think Pros are sometimes too coddled and not forgetting the lane conditions the environment is too sterile.

But look at Mary Allen's, comments: Big money was on the line and Randy was potentially bowling for his professional career... his future was at stake on that shot.

The commentator said that it was a cough, but I heard a rather loud thud when I replayed the recording. But all in all this could not be seen as an interference so let us learn from this incident that such tirades serve only to reveal that we have weaknesses.

It was wrong for Randy Pederson to respond like he did. He should've told one of the crew to handle the situation. Maybe make an announcement to the fans about moving and keeping quiet. That being said, I think it's the PBA's fault! Why? Because the PBA is trying to promote the Tour like if it's a major sport (football, basketball, baseball,). Why have the finals in an arena or stadium? Why not have them at "bowling centers" like they used to? Why put seats along side the lanes the bowlers are bowling on? The people are so close to the lanes, I'm surprised this has not happened more often. The PBA should get back to the way they used to do the finals, having everyone sit in back of the bowlers!

Finally someone who thinks like I do. Thank goodness I'm not alone. Thanks for backing me up Bad comapany. Boy for a while there I felt I was all alone with this point of view. I think the PBA should still promote it like a major sport, but in a setting like where it belongs in the bowling center not an arena.

One point, much like Del Ballard's gutter ball became the defining moment of that particular tournament; Randy's emotional outpouring might be the defining moment of the 2005 ToC.

Not the superb bowling of - gosh I've forgotten his name already - Steve Jaros, (sorry Steve) nor the consummate sportsmanship shown by Norm Duke despite the disappointment of coming so close to another major.

In a few years time we might all remember Randy and forget the other participants, which would be a shame.

And finally I hope the PBA are not too hard on Randy, after all we are only human, it made for great TV and (in the US at least because not many people saw it elsewhere) it was no doubt a great “water cooler” moment.

Remember in 1994 or 95 Bob Learn's record setting arena outing in his hometown Erie, PA. Bob ask for and recieved an interference call because a fan moved in their seat at his shooting a 10-pin. Whenever I view this tape that comes off as a red stain on the whole proceedings.

I was at the show and I didn't hear anything.
Randy made a good shot and should have struck.
He didn't and lost. The way Jaros was lined up in practice, no one was going to beat him anyway. He just didn't miss.