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#81152 - 02/22/09 04:05 AM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: Atochabsh]
leftykev Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 329
A/S/L: Spokane, WA
USBC Rule 4a - Legal Delivery
A delivery is made when the ball leaves the player’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory. Every delivery counts unless a dead ball is declared. (See Rule 8.) A delivery must be made entirely by manual means. No device may be incorporated in or affixed to the ball that detaches on delivery or is a moving part during delivery except as provided in Rules 4b and 4c.

** I've searched through the rule book and there is no rule that addresses a 2 handed delivery because there is no way that USBC could say a 2 handed delivery is a illegal delivery (YET).

I've only seen Jason Belmonte bowl and unless his version of the 2 handed delivery is different, "at the point of release," only his right hand is on the ball. Just before release, his left hand/arm acts just as it does for all bowlers and acts as a normal balance arm. With a 2 handed delivery, when the balance hand/arm goes into motion, the 2 handed bowler would get more torso rotation, which would give him/her an extra advantage with ball speed.

I'm sure a 2 handed bowler could fight this at that house, and most likely win. This reminds me back in the day, when mixed leagues would try to deny an all women's team from bowling, and the women's team would protest, based on discrimination, then the leagues would always back off. I realize this is a differnt topic, but along the same lines.

So, what's next? No backup ball? No palm ball? No between the legs shot? nelson


Edited by leftykev (02/22/09 04:07 AM)

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#81154 - 02/22/09 08:17 AM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: leftykev]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I found a discussion that took place at the 2007 USBC meeting that is related to this topic. It seems the general concensus is a bowler is either right or left handed classified based on the side of his body he delivers the ball from.

However, it is common for a 2-handed bowler to have an additional 'gripping' hole(s) drilled in the center of the grip, presumably for a finger(s) of the opposite hand. This is an additional hole or holes. The USBC discussion ruled that all holes meant for fingers and thumb must be used by the same hand. Ruling the gripping hole illegal.

From the Discussion: While a change was made several years ago to require gripping holes to be covered during a delivery, the current application would still allow a two-handed player to drill a set of finger holes for each hand on opposite sides of the ball. This allows a player to insert fingers from both hands to assist in maintaining the grip and imparting force on the ball.

Any hole that cannot be reasonably shown to be used with a single hand would be classified as a balance hole.

In addition, they discussed the thumb hole drilled for a bowler who used No Thumb. In this instance, the thumb hole was intended to be used for spare shooting.

The resolution was that each hole intended for a finger or thumb had to be covered in the delivery.

From the Discussion: As in the recent past, while not required to be used, all gripping holes must be covered throughout the approach and delivery. This means that a player not using the thumb hole must lay the ball in the palm of his/her hand such that the palm or thumb covers the thumb hole. If the player rotates the ball in manner that results in the thumb hole being fully exposed, they are in violation of USBC rules and following a warning, be subject to disqualification from the competition.

If the unused thumb hole is not covered in delivery, it is considered an extra balance hole, and illegal.

The actual rules have not been updated to include these conditions, but these rulings from discussion may be used until they are formally adopted.
This will be an interesting discussion, ruling, and test.

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#81157 - 02/22/09 08:35 AM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Well since leagues are invitational really the league can vote to deny anyone the chance to participate in the league but not really give a real reason. Of course this can always bring a law suit upon the league depending on who is being excluded. I doubt a 2 handed bowler could.
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#81160 - 02/22/09 08:48 AM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Found this photo of Jamie ???, forgot his name, in the 2006 Nationals. The picture clearly shows his thumb hole exposed during delivery. Would this be considered illegal today?




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#81169 - 02/22/09 09:16 AM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: Atochabsh]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:

Quote:
like someone else said its like banning left handers.


You can do this? Is there an existing precidence?


Just imagine it...bowling without left handers

I think some people don't like two handed bowlers because they feel that two handers are just looking for a short cut to high scores and don't want to put the work in or pay their dues.


Edited by CoachJim (02/22/09 09:22 AM)

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#81170 - 02/22/09 09:22 AM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: CoachJim]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Left handers really don't bother me. They don't use my line. They don't spread the oil in my way. They don't ruin my shot.

Now, If we could get rid of those RH crankers who constantly drag the oil into the dry corners, I'd be happy.
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#81180 - 02/22/09 12:34 PM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: ]
leftykev Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 329
A/S/L: Spokane, WA
I think leagues should ban red bowling balls and balls that have a fragrance. oops nelson

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#81249 - 02/22/09 09:18 PM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: Brandon510]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Brandon510
That like banning left handed bowlers. I wounder if they had a league vote or not to ban this in that league?


This is a good point. Did they vote on this, and if so, when? If it was done after the season started, they'd have to have 100% approval.

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#81260 - 02/22/09 11:33 PM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: Lefty]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
They can't do it at the start of league or after the league has started. A league cannot adopt a rule that vetos a USBC rule. Since USBC has delivery rules that do not prohibit two handed delivery then a league cannot ban it.

Unless of course they are NOT sanctioned.

Erin

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#81266 - 02/23/09 12:24 AM Re: Two handed style banned in your league? [Re: Atochabsh]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
That's what I thought, Erin. The USBC has clarified the predominant hand in a 2-handed delivery, and eliminated the use of grip holes by the other hand, and clarified where and how the holes are to be used. They have accepted a 2-handed delivery.
As well as thumbless.

It is not specifically stated as such in a rule book. But, neither is a cranker or stroker.
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