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#80428 - 02/17/09 11:27 PM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: Jay R.]
Chubbs Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 494
A/S/L: 30/M/Niceville, FL
Originally Posted By: Amateur
I assume arc is what you want if you're having troubles getting the ball to hook and if you're playing straighter. On all the patterns, hook was the least of my troubles(unless I missed right of course). It's been a matter of accuracy/consistency more than antyhing. Either I have to hit a certain board or I lose the pocket. The plus side is, my carry is really good from outside where I play. I don't know if moving in gives me more room but I imagine it takes a toll on my carry.

The only pattern I got a little room on was the Viper when I play almost straight up 5.

Is there a breakpoint for each pattern that's set in stone, give or take? I was thinking you could play varying breakpoints by switching the line up(i.e swinging it out to 8, but playeding a straighter line to 5 for the breakpoints). At that point, it comes down to where you feel most comfortable and what will give you the most room for error, right?

By arc I mean a smoother move at the breakpoint. Not the skid/flip type of reaction that typically yields the best carry on THS.

As a general rule, the longer patterns are to be played closer to the center while the shorter patterns will chase you out near the gutter. Anything more specific than that is dictated by lane surface and a host of other variables. Playing outside on the longer patterns like Shark might help your carry when you make a good pitch, but it will also punish misses more severely. Chris Barnes might be able to win TV finals playing Shark outside, but you and I don't have his ability to repeat accurate shots. Playing inside might yield a few more flat 10's or 2's, but you'll have a little more slop room there. Not house shot area, mind you, but more than you'll have outside.
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#80436 - 02/18/09 12:03 AM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: cgeorg]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Bowling on a sport shot doesn't fix your problems, it magnifies them. If you don't have a good pair of eyes watching/coaching you, it can make you a worse bowler, and be no fun to boot.

I concur.
Be like water making its way through cracks. Don't be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.

#80442 - 02/18/09 12:13 AM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: Chubbs]
Jay R. Offline

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Good point Chubbs. I think a big problem for me on these patterns is I might be fighting the intended breakpoint instead of using it. And/or I could be using the wrong equipment. Ron Clifton wrote an article about breakpoint zones, maybe I can put that idea to use and I probably should stop assuming I can play the patterns straighter all the time.

#80443 - 02/18/09 12:19 AM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: Jay R.]
IndyBowler Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 56
A/S/L: 24/M/Indianapolis
I have never bowled in a sport shot league. I plan on doing so this summer.

Anywho, I have practiced on them.

I find on these shots there is less give and area. Since I am a swing shot bolwer on a league patter (typically 20-10 and back) if I use that shot I am inconsistent. However, on the more reactive sport pattern that shot still works. Most of the time though, I break my wrist slightly and shoot for around 12-14 board out to about 10. I lessen my swing, and bring my shot inside because I usually don't go light/heavy. I will probably hit the pocket all night long with this type of shot, but struggle to carry without the backend hook. Usually end up leaving ten pins, four pins, and nine pins all night on these less forgiving lines.
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#80477 - 02/18/09 05:48 AM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: Jay R.]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
If you watch the tour telecast, most of the pros use longer pin to pap distances to try and prevent the ball from rolling too early. They use pin distances of 5 to 6" so the ball will react to what they are doing to the ball better instead of trying to help them rev the ball up (they don't need that help).

Longer pin to pap distances help get the ball through the heads cleaner and provide more control over the break point, if you don't have a long pin to pap distance ball for sport/pba patterns, then you may want to look into getting a few for the various shots you will find.

#80483 - 02/18/09 09:54 AM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: CoachJim]
Lefty Offline

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
I think the key to these patterns is first understanding where you want your breakpoint to be. Basically take the pattern lenght and subtract 31 from it and that's where the ball should exit the pattern. Read more about why.

Then you need to figure out how you need to get to that point. It could be straight, or you may need to swing it. That depends on which ball reads the lanes the best and how you throw the ball.

#80486 - 02/18/09 10:05 AM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: Lefty]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
Lefty, just remember that the subract 31 rule is a general assumption of where you need to be playing. That should get you close to the right area, but it is by no means set in stone that the breakpoint has to be there. There are so many factors in finding the right break point that it can change it by a few boards here and there. Everything from the type of lane surface, temperature, type of oil used, how the oil machine applies the oil, and who was on the lanes before you all make a difference in whether you score or not. This rule gets you close, it is the bowlers job to fine tune it from there.
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#80531 - 02/18/09 04:19 PM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: sk8shorty01]
Lefty Offline

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
It's not a general assumption and much of what you mentioned doesn't come into play with choosing the best breakpoint. How you get to the breakpoint? Yes. Choosing the breakpoint that will give you the best entry angle to carry? No.

#80534 - 02/18/09 04:44 PM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: Lefty]
untutored Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 269
A/S/L: 35/m/arizona
The only pattern I felt good about this summer was the Viper. I had a nice shot working a slight fade (10 to 8) with a Urethane Groove, and I could also play inside (17 to 8) with a Doom. If you get outside of 8 the ball won't come back, but I usually miss left and those lines both gave me a little miss room to the inside.

The Shark, I had a decent shot working 20 to 11 with a 15-pound El Nino Gold--the extra weight helped keep my speed down--but I ran into the ball return with that shot very quickly. I would switch to a Liberator going 12 to 12 and that was a decent shot but nothing special.

If I play PBAX this summer, I'll have to use different equipment and/or different lines, as I'm less rev-dominant than I used to be...
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#80536 - 02/18/09 05:08 PM Re: Sport/PBA Conditions [Re: untutored]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
I played all of the PBA patterns outside. I went basically up between 5 to 8. I changed balls or hand positions depending on my reaction.

PBA conditions (just like all conditions) will vary from house to house. There were a few people who played inside but not many with too much success.
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