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#77733 - 01/29/09 08:28 PM Re: Bowling needs a new handicap system [Re: Dennis Michael]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Yeah, I'd like to see more parity in all leagues to at least minimize the use of handicap, but there will still be sandbaggers that try to exploit the system. The only scratch leagues I've seen around me are usually summer Sport/PBA leagues and those are usually singles that many lower average bowlers get into for the fun of it.

I like the idea that bdgf06 describes and I've heard of it before, but again it comes down to get enough bowlers that don't have an issue of bowling with someone they might not know. I wish there was one like that in my area, I'd give it a shot.

On the topic of percentage though even at 100% I still see the top teams more often than not be at the top of the standings, but I prefer something more around 90%. My current league is 80%. To me it should serve as a reason for one to improve to make the field level based on their skill not because they get so many pins added to their score. On both sides of the issue the bowlers need to know it is a handicap league, or tournament and that they are entering it as such. The higher average bowlers shouldn't complain when they lose based on handicap and the lower average bowlers shouldn't complain because they lost to someone with greater skill despite the handicap.
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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#77774 - 01/30/09 03:15 AM Re: Bowling needs a new handicap system [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
Jock Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 406
A/S/L: 51/M/France, right handed
In France the system is based on your tournament average. Once you have over 21 games tournament play under your belt, then the league scores are registered just for information and all handicaps are based over your tournament average (calculated by the French Bowling Federation over the last (slidng) twelve months). It seems to work OK.
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#77782 - 01/30/09 07:29 AM Re: Bowling needs a new handicap system [Re: Jock]
dmoney298 Offline
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Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 183
A/S/L: 27/M/Baltimore, MD
Well we are talking a handicap system. With that being said, there is no way to make it perfect. Someone will have an advantage and someone will have an disadvantage. The closest you can get is to have a league based on average. They only problem you have there is you classic sandbagger and we all know it will happen. Someone mentioned the 7 point system with a point for scratch and handicap. I have bowled in a league like that. It only works in a league with balanced averages because once you get a team on 190 bowlers matched up with a team with 130 bowlers, the better team gets points just for showing up essentially. When you join a handicap league, you know going in what can happen. If you cant handle the possible advantages or disadvantages there then you may as well go join another league. Its all supposed to be about having fun, so as the saying goes, shut up and bowl.

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#77785 - 01/30/09 08:32 AM Re: Bowling needs a new handicap system [Re: dmoney298]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9799
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Dmoney, agreed. The multiple point or head to head system only works when the teams are balanced. Our leagues here usually cap the scratch averages at 840 for a 4-man team. Every week, the team rotation is structured from lowest average first to highest average as the anchor. In this manner, a bowler bowls against an opponent of like average. Our lowest against their lowest, etc.

The payout is also structured for team points and head to head points for individuals, so holding your average down doesn't help, since to do that, you lose individual payouts. It is not uncommon for a lower average bowler to get more points over a higher average bowler, and a higher payout.

This is also a handicapped league based on 90% of 220.

But, this doesn't help the Social League where friends and family bowl together. One family always has better bowlers than another.
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#77792 - 01/30/09 09:07 AM Re: Bowling needs a new handicap system [Re: Dennis Michael]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
Dennis, we have a handicapped league that you are going for 28 points a night that sounds similar to your layout. 3 person teams with a cap of 645. There are 2 points given for each game as a team, and each game individual (bowl straight across). There is also 1 point for total pinfall for team and individual. The handicap is 90% of the difference in individual averages, same with the team averages. The best part is the team with the lower average coming in can re-order their members in any way they want. This puts a lot of advantage into who you want to bowl against who. For instance the lower average team has a 200,205,210 on the team. The higher average has 195,195,235 so to give themselves an advantage the low average team could lineup as 205,210,200. This means both the first two are giving pins, but not very many, and the last person (which will be at a disadvantage no matter what) will be at least given quite a bit of handicap. The lower average team would most likely lose that last individual game so putting the low average bowler there means if they lose its ok, but it does give a chance of getting a break based on handicap. I really like the setup like that.
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#77796 - 01/30/09 09:26 AM Re: Bowling needs a new handicap system [Re: sk8shorty01]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9799
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I guess the difference is that there is more money paid to an individual for his points won, then that same person can get for team performance. In that case, I wouldn't want to be the 200 bowler slotted against the 235.

Top payout went to the bowler who won the most head to head matches, and whose team also won the league. He got over $2000 for the year. Most of his money was won in head to head.

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#77803 - 01/30/09 09:52 AM Re: Bowling needs a new handicap system [Re: Dennis Michael]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
Yeah in the league I am talking there is no head to head bonus money, its all strictly a team money pool. Therefore the lineup change doesn't actually hurt anyone's overall money. Its all in it for the team, and the more points you can rack up the better.
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