I would love to develope a new system, but that is what the USBC is for. They are the only group that has the information, resources, and back ground to put this together.

If they would like to hire me to manage this process I would love to do it. I would be happy to forward them my salary, team members, equipment and resourse requirements that I think would be nessesary to do this. With the right budget I think I could complete this in approximately 12 to 18 months.

I don't have any real problems with the handicap system, be it 80%, 90% or whatever. What I have a problem with is the people that abuse the system. I talked to USBC IT to see about setting up a national tournament database that would be easy for other bowlers and tournament directors to look up bowlers and see past tournament history., Then it falls on the Tournament Directors following through entering in results.

A good start would be if TDs would enter the bowlers in their tournament that make say more than 500 bucks. You would report earnings, average, number of games, PBAX or not. I could setup this system in a day, but I was wanting a way from USBC to validate tournaments by verifying the certification number and tournament directory information to avoid fraudulent items in the database.

The other item that annoys me personally about handicapping is tournaments (state,association for example) that require scratch bowlers to enter the handicap division, then the handicap first place series ends up being over 900. Scratch bowlers are forced to enter when they are completely shut out. Let the scratch bowlers bowl in their own division and make handicap an optional entry.

I wish there was a way to blend scratch and handicap together. I am not a fan of handicap leagues I'll say that right now. I work hard at what I do, I don't feel as though I need to work extra hard to even the playing field. That being said I have bowled and will bowl in both. On my scratch league we had 2 points per team game won (3 games), 1 point total wood and 1 point for each individual game won and 1 point for total pin fall against the person you were lined up against (1st bowler vs 1st bowler and so on down the line).

I'd like to find a way to incorporate both. If I have to give up pins as a team then lets still use that head to head point system. This way you can still win some points on a night where a low average team has a great night because honestly those are the nights you are powerless to do much even if you are on. I've lost all points many a night on ridiculous handicap alone not competition or skill.

On a side note one thing that irks me is no tap tournaments that are handicapped. Isn't the ability to get a strike when you hit 9 pins enough? I suppose it's not. I shot 900 one tournament and came in 3rd place, handicap did me in.

I'll add my two cents.

I think that there should be more leagues like my morning youth league I bowled in a few years ago. What they did was had three different divisions, broken up by average, that way you were bowling against people on your skill level and I'm sure there was handicap, but since you were in divisions with relatively the same average, a 200 average bowler couldn't lose to a 120 average bowler, and it was more even within the divisions. Yea, I'm sure if they did this in an adult league, there would be people that sandbag, but since it was a youth league, most of us didn't worry about winning and cheating was the last thing to come to mind unless our parents told us to or something.

The problem with that system is that you cannot bowl with friends unless you are all of similar skill level. In adult leagues this means that most spouses would not be able to bowl together.

I've heard of some ideas and actual leagues that blend scratch and handicap. They are draft leagues where the bowlers are separated according to averages and then placed on teams to try to keep parity of the teams. Then if the difference of the team averages are over a certain amount handicap is applied. Of course the hard part with getting people involved in a league like this is they want to bowl with their friends, family and so on.

As for handicap in no tap, I agree considering the handicap is usually based off of non-no tap average.

My daughter and I are in a P/C league (non-sanctioned). She is the highest avg for girls and I am the highest avg for mens. The handicap sys in our league is 90% of the difference between the two teams. We bowl very well against other teams with good bowlers, but we get KILLED by low avg teams. I'm at about 190 and she's about 135 (at 12 years old). The problem is, we have kids that avg in the 50s and some adults with sub 100 avgs.

As many of you probably know, it is way easier for a 50 or 95 avg bowler to get 40 or 50 pins over avg than it is for me or even my daughter.

Two weeks ago, we bowled against a team where their combined avg was 195, so we gave up 117 pins a game. I threw a 620 and my daughter threw a 425 and we lost every game.

I really wish we'd go to a sys that is based off of 210, the 90% of the difference really hurts the better bowling teams in our league.

My dad and I bowled in an Adult/Child 8 week league when I was a senior in HS. We killed the league because it was 90% of 200 and I averaged 206 while my dad averaged 214. Next highest average for youth was 123. For adult was 144. We essentially were getting anywhere from 15-40 sticks because we were above the base. And yes, people were upset, but hey, we worked hard to average over 200. FYI, if you're over the base, technically you're getting sticks.

Any handicap system will be imperfect. Someone will get punished. Sometimes it's the lower average bowlers, sometimes it's the higher average bowlers. But usually when the "hotshot high average je rk" starts running his mouth about "I'm tired of getting beat by lower average bowlers", I take pride in pointing out 2 things; one, their average is usually inflated by the ridiculously easy lane conditions and two, they were once a beginner with a ton of handicap themselves. In short: SHUT UP AND BOWL! Quit your whining and do the best you can.

If I have the option of a scratch league, I take it. I just get tired of the whining and sandbagging that generally goes on in handicap leagues. If I'm in a handicap league, I'll assemble a seemingly non-competitive, "just for fun" team and bowl for pure fun, otherwise, I'll flip my lid at the stupid drama and utter b.s. that takes place in those leagues, and it's just not worth it.

Nice point. This is my first year bowling seriously and my average is mid 140's. The problem is with my fairly rapid progression I'm shooting mainly 170-190. This is a good advantage for my league team, but the unfairness came in tournaments last week. I cleaned house with my huge handicap, and it was unfair. I ended up splitting bracket profits with the 2nd place guy to clear my mind a bit. Even if I'm the beneficiary, I don't feel good about this kind of advantage, it's just not right.

I don't know if I'd call 100% handicap leagues fair. Usually, lower-average bowlers find it much easier to improve over the course of the season--at the end of the league, most of the 115 bowlers end up as 130 bowlers, but they're still handicapped as though they're 120 bowlers.


I was in a league two years ago that was scratch with a max team average of 830. Not that it's foolproof, but that's one way to blend scratch and handicap formats.