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#76994 - 01/25/09 02:45 PM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: BIGHMW]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
That probably means your swing isn't straight. Watch Walter Ray bowl - his shoulders are not level when he releases the ball.

4:17
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#76997 - 01/25/09 03:07 PM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: cgeorg]
BIGHMW Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 414
A/S/L: 48/M/Port Townsend, WA
Thanks for the footage. I also notice that WRW has that downswing tucked in next to his left ankle, which allows a more accurate shot despite the low rev rate we both have. My swing though, happens to bounce out away from my body as opposed to Walter's.

Time for me to break out the ol' camcorder and tapes (Bo Burton once advocated this as one of his Tips Of The Week on ABC years ago) so I can record my practice sessions and analyze my game and my mechanics.
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#77019 - 01/25/09 08:19 PM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: BIGHMW]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Yep - what we feel is one thing, but video doesn't lie. I try to get some at least once a month.

The reason your swing is out away from your ankle at the bottom could be because you are keeping your shoulders level. That's pure speculation though - the video should tell the true tale.
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#77071 - 01/26/09 05:46 AM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: shotcat]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Shotcat, how much would you charge for 2hours of open bowling, taking into consideration it would be as many as 6 bowlers to a pair?

As a coach I would charge $10 a person limit 12 for a two hour clinic style lesson. If you also charge $10 a bowler that would be two hours of bowling with instruction for $20 and would attract business by teaching bowlers how to bowl and the importance of practice, the coach would get people interested in lessons, and the Pro Shop would pick up business because of clinic goers wanting new equipment and fixing grip issues.

I don't know what your lane availability is, but you could fill at least 4 lanes any night you could get a coach in there, and plant seeds to add interest back in the game and increase your league base that way.

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#77077 - 01/26/09 07:11 AM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: shotcat]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: shotcat
This has to be a handicap league. That means bowling against a guy at an easier house is the same as bowling against a bowler with a higher average in your own house. The handicap makes things even, just like it does in every league in the country every night.

Your other suggestions are good, we have done some similar things in the past.
Thanks for the post.


So you're going to make this a 100% of 300 average league? Why not just start a coin flipping league instead? It would save a lot of time and have the same outcome.

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#77078 - 01/26/09 07:18 AM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: CoachJim]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9792
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
It's pretty evident why teams are leaving our Wed league. We have a solid contingent of 14 teams, and the House keeps adding new teams to our league from other leagues that have folded. The teams added are all newbies, 2-finger types, who have no etiquette, drink and swear, and are never ready to bowl. This year, we added 4 teams from another night that folded, restarted, and folded again. These 4 teams make it really uncomfortable for all of the others.
When you take a solid group of 40-60 year olds who are pretty set in their ways, and add a couple of teams of 20 year olds who are discourteous, it isn't long before some one quits.
There really is a generation gap, and it can't be smoothened.

At my other House, there isn't room for another team. Every league has 20 teams in a 20 lane House. And, they return every year. A singleton waiting list is available, but there is no room for a complete team.

I was also on a waiting list for 2 years at another House. When I finally got a call, I had already committed elsewhere, so I had to decline.

We are kinda filled here.
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#77081 - 01/26/09 07:22 AM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: Dennis Michael]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9792
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
BTW, a new chain House opened a little over a year ago. But, it is one of those party type environments with all kinds of games for kids. The House decided no NOT have sanctioned league, but wanted the House sanctioned. Our local USBC Office declined their request to sanction the House without sanctioned leagues.

They have NO leagues there.
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#77087 - 01/26/09 09:00 AM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: CoachJim]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1636
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
Shotcat, how much would you charge for 2hours of open bowling, taking into consideration it would be as many as 6 bowlers to a pair?

As a coach I would charge $10 a person limit 12 for a two hour clinic style lesson. If you also charge $10 a bowler that would be two hours of bowling with instruction for $20 and would attract business by teaching bowlers how to bowl and the importance of practice, the coach would get people interested in lessons, and the Pro Shop would pick up business because of clinic goers wanting new equipment and fixing grip issues.

I don't know what your lane availability is, but you could fill at least 4 lanes any night you could get a coach in there, and plant seeds to add interest back in the game and increase your league base that way.



That's a good idea. Maybe also have a Pro Shop guy there to talk about the types of balls, etc. without any sales pressure. Maybe start a beginners leaque so people starting out won't feel uncomfortable around seasoned bowlers.
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#77118 - 01/26/09 10:25 AM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: shotcat]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
As a USBC director and Association office staff, I can say that our number of bowlers have not dropped in the last year or so. But they have declined over the last 6 to 10 years. This is probably typical for all the reasons already given. But our winter season is really really busy. It probably has a lot to do with being in CA where the weather and road conditions are always good. So seniors, especially, can get to the centers. Over 50% of our sanctioned bowlers are over 55. I saw this problem when I visited my Dad in Indiana. In winter a lot of seniors don't want to commit due to weather and road issues (in other words transportation) and in summer a lot of them leave for warmer locations. Short of going to their homes and bringing them to the bowl in bad weather , I don't know how to fight that.


But a couple things have helped some of our proprietors. 9 pin no tap leagues. Yes you can sanction them and yes they can get awards, just not average based awards. But a lot of seniors don't see the need to sanction, so we also have a lot of non sanctioned senior leagues, regular and no tap. That hurts the local association numbers, but not the proprietor so it might be an idea for you. We also have "learn to bowl" leagues that are fairly short in duration, and the prize fund goes into a new reactive ball at the end. Coaches are on hand and there's a clinic atmosphere for the first three weeks or so. The league I believe runs 12 weeks. Again, this is not a sanctioned league in this case. We've seen an increase in 1/2 season leagues. So the 34 week commitment is down to like 14 or 16 weeks. You are probably already doing this, but free coffee for morning and day leagues. I don't know why, but free coffee can make the difference between seniors bowling at one center vs the other. Our center feeds them a light lunch every other week too; I think they are charged like a dollar or something in a can on the honor system. Its just simple sandwiches and chips but its all gone by the end of the bowling. And of course the day lineage fees are much less then night. One center charges only $3 lineage, the whole league dues are only $6 per person per week. That league has over 125 senior men (only) in it.

Night leagues again seem to all boil down to lineage costs. Houses that charge less are typically full. The local AMF houses, that always seem to charge more then the privately owned centers, are not full at night. Monday night became an issue in our center. No TVs on the concourse and leagues were going to leave because they could not watch Monday football. Solution.....TVs were installed. Not fancy flat screens, but TVs none the less.

Erin

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#77124 - 01/26/09 10:49 AM Re: Fight the Decline in league bowling [Re: Atochabsh]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9792
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
One thing that is hurting the House where leagues are failing is the fact that they play music while leagues are in progress. Most bowlers don't want this, and have expressed their discontent. But, it doesn't matter.

Bowlers say they are there to bowl, not Karaoke. Deaf ears again.

Some teams will leave because of this.

Seems to be Brunswick's way or no way.
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