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#75575 - 01/14/09 06:08 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: NewEnglandBowler]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
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A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
WRW does use 15 lbs, and has for a few years. During last seasons trick shot competition Chris Barnes took a dig at him for it. After WRW's ball deflected too much trying for some sort of weird split set up, Barnes said that wouldn't have happened if you used a man's weight.

Also that was hilarious CoachJim.
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#75584 - 01/14/09 08:40 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
BIGHMW Offline
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Registered: 09/09/08
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A/S/L: 48/M/Port Townsend, WA
Originally Posted By: infernocal
WRW does use 15 lbs, and has for a few years. During last seasons trick shot competition Chris Barnes took a dig at him for it. After WRW's ball deflected too much trying for some sort of weird split set up, Barnes said that wouldn't have happened if you used a man's weight.

Also that was hilarious CoachJim.


I guess then that my hunch was correct about Walter Ray using 15-pound equipment.

Nelson Burton Jr. used to condemn players using 15 pound balls after they leave a weak-10 on an apparent good hit, and had for a number of years. I used to hear him say that 15-pound balls hit weak when he was on ABC Sports about a few years ago before they pulled the plug on the PBA back in 1997.

I myself have used 16-pound balls since I started bowling seriously back in 1989, and have heard the cons and pros about players using lighter balls over the 20+ years I have been involved in tbis great sport, and I think that no matter how good the technology of today's equipment is, there are always going to be debates on its use, especially in serious competition.
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#75586 - 01/14/09 09:32 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: BIGHMW]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
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Registered: 02/19/07
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A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Randy has brought the weight issue up on several occasions as well, especially when a bowler is using 15s, playing an extreme deep angle and having an issue kicking out a corner pin, 7s for lefties and 10s for righties. Like you said there will always be debates over which weight is best, as there are going to be people on both sides that think they are right.
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#75594 - 01/14/09 10:37 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
CoachJim Offline
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Registered: 09/19/06
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A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
If WRW would have been using a 16lb ball, it would have burned out quicker and hit even weaker. He drifted left which caused him to hang the ball out to the right and the ball burned up early which is the only way to leave an 8-10.

A 14lb ball may have carried for him or at least left a weak 10, a 16 would have left a 5-7-10 and he would have dropped back to number two or they would do the d. Weber piece again and said dw was number two on the top 50 and not mentioned Walter Ray. I would have had to have been rushed to the hospital from laughing to the point where I would have passed out.

Plain and simple he threw a bad shot, he is human after millions of shots some of them are going to be bad from time to time even when thrown by the number something or other bowler of all time.

So if Walter can throw a bad shot, then so can the rest of us, so give yourselves a break.

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#75601 - 01/14/09 11:31 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: BIGHMW]
Brian Longo Offline
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Registered: 05/23/06
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Originally Posted By: BIGHMW
Nelson Burton Jr. used to condemn players using 15 pound balls after they leave a weak-10 on an apparent good hit, and had for a number of years. I used to hear him say that 15-pound balls hit weak when he was on ABC Sports about a few years ago before they pulled the plug on the PBA back in 1997.

<soapbox>"Bo" Burton is a blowhard who is so full of himself it's ridiculous and I, for one, was absolutely elated when they pulled the plug on him (I hated hearing him do commentary for the latest women's events, though). Listening to him yammer on about "what bowlers should be doing" or "it's inexcusable for a professional to miss a single-pin spare" is akin to listening to Johnny Miller and Lanny Wadkins (thank God CBS axed that joker) browbeat top touring pros for their decisions and games. Hey, old guys, what is it; "if you can't beat them, ridicule them on TV?" Look, if you're so damn good why don't you get out there and strut your stuff, ok? Put your money where your mouth is, otherwise can it and leave the personal editorials out of the commentary. How's that?</soapbox>

Originally Posted By: BIGHMW
I myself have used 16-pound balls since I started bowling seriously back in 1989, and have heard the cons and pros about players using lighter balls over the 20+ years I have been involved in tbis great sport, and I think that no matter how good the technology of today's equipment is, there are always going to be debates on its use, especially in serious competition.

I switched from 16 to 15 pound equipment 7 years ago and am thankful I did. I leave far fewer 9 pins than I used to and I actually get more on the ball than I used to because I'm not fighting the weight of the ball in my hand. Yes, one pound is a major difference. Even 8 ounces is noticeable. I won't say it's a move everyone should make, but for some people it does help.

I'm sure part of the reason why WRW went to 15 pounds is because he's 49 and the 15 pound equipment doesn't wear him out as fast as 16 pound equipment did. But, as Jim said, he threw a bad shot, and he paid dearly for it. 99 times out of 100 that shot at least carries the 10 or 8, or even strikes. That happened to be the 1 time it didn't. How many times has any one of us thrown a somewhat bad shot when we needed it and paid the price for the mistake? Yeah, everyone should be raising their hand on that one. I know mine's in the air.

He'll have more chances to take another step towards 50 titles, don't you worry.
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#75616 - 01/15/09 06:40 AM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: Brian Longo]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
<soapbox>"Bo" Burton is a blowhard who is so full of himself it's ridiculous and I, for one, was absolutely elated when they pulled the plug on him (I hated hearing him do commentary for the latest women's events, though). Listening to him yammer on about "what bowlers should be doing" or "it's inexcusable for a professional to miss a single-pin spare" is akin to listening to Johnny Miller and Lanny Wadkins (thank God CBS axed that joker) browbeat top touring pros for their decisions and games. Hey, old guys, what is it; "if you can't beat them, ridicule them on TV?" Look, if you're so [censored] good why don't you get out there and strut your stuff, ok? Put your money where your mouth is, otherwise can it and leave the personal editorials out of the commentary. How's that?</soapbox>


Related story, my friend and I went to the 84 Fair Lanes Open at Capital Plaza. We sat in the stands and just let all of the pros move by us instead of following one bowler and missing someone.

After a few games, Nelson Burton Jr. struts up to the lanes in front of us and gets on a 3 or 4 bagger then on his next shot the ball hits the pocket and he is running them out at this point and leaves the 5...7...10. He spins around with his fist pumped, his face in disbelief as to the results of such a tremendous shot. At this point my friend points at NBjr, and BELLY LAUGHS. He was laughing so hard I and others sitting around us couldn't help but laugh too and the more he laughed the funnier it got. Old NBjr was staring daggers at us. After the laughing calmed down I said "I guess now is not a good time to ask him for his autograph" and the laughing started up again.

Then someone a little bit away from us yelled "Hey Nelson, DO YOU WANT A DRESS WITH THAT?" Laughing erupts again. I think NBjr finished with a 185 if I remember.

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#75621 - 01/15/09 07:39 AM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: CoachJim]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
I'm starting to laugh just reading the story. Running out a 5-7-10, he deserves every bit that he got.
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#75633 - 01/15/09 09:55 AM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: cgeorg]
General Pounder Offline
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Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
What I was bowling in college, there was a guy who bowled for Indiana. The guy was a real piece of work putting it nicely. I see his name from time to time in the TQRs. IU was leading the tourney by a good measure. This guy had a 5 or 6 bagger working and left the 5-7-10. We all started laughing at him. He threw is spare ball as fast as he could and missed them all which caused us to laugh harder. He walked back with both hands in the air giving everyone the finger and said: "F you guys, were in first and you guys suck." They ended up losing the tourney grin
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#75636 - 01/15/09 10:09 AM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: General Pounder]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
By the way to add to the 15 versus 16 pound arguement, both Tommy Jones and Wes Mallot throw 15 pounds because both have said with their rev rates 16 pounds actually hits so hard that they have a hard time keeping the pins low to the deck with them. Actually there are very few touring pros that are throwing 16 pound equiptment anymore, Chris Barnes being one. The 16 pound ball has become the minority in the PBA now, I believe you can count the players using 16 pound equiptment on one hand.
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#75685 - 01/15/09 05:13 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: sk8shorty01]
BIGHMW Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 414
A/S/L: 48/M/Port Townsend, WA
I too, debated with myself and thought about switching to 15-pound equipment a few years back, thinking that I would be able to get a higher rev rate with the lighter balls, but my Pro Shop guy, John DeWitt at J.D.'s Pro Shop at my home house, All-Star Lanes in Silverdale, WA, about 40 miles from my home here in Port Townsend, said that I already throw the ball too hard as it is, and I have for the past several years have been fighting losing the ball in the point of release, causing me to drop my right shoulder (which I know I shouldn't be doing considering that I throw the ball straight), and when I am playing outside around 5-8-board, the ball hits the proverbial "Grey Board" or misses right of target.

Should I talk to my Pro Shop guy (John) about gearing down to 15-pound ball next season, after all I am going to be 43 this May, and I think that maybe Father Time and a lack of practice are starting to catch up with me.
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