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#7577 - 07/28/06 03:30 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Women's high game scratch was higher then any man, same with series. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">I dont' think this is typical. In fact I think its very Atypical.

Erin

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#7578 - 07/28/06 12:55 PM Re: Women on Men's league
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Atochabsh
As I wrote this response, I realized that you are probably right. As my quote from my response says.
"I think the difference comes about because usually, there aren't as many high average women bowlers. In our league, there are.
In fact there are at least 7-8 who average over 180. These women are good."

Being out of bowling for 24 years, then coming back, this is the environment I found myself in. My house has an unusually high number of GOOD bowlers. And, we have all gotten to know each other pretty well.

It is not uncommon for 3, 5, or even seven of us to randomly show up at the Alley, and just decide to bowl with each other, men and women.

Our house, also, supports our frequent return visits. We rarely pay more than 50 cents per line, any day or night, as long as there is 1 or more of the familiar faces on the lane.

In fact, 4 or 5 of us gather each Tuesday night during the summer to practice. We prepay for 3 games, and routinely bowl as many as 9 for no extra fee. The manager asks us if we want to continue, and resets the lanes to bowl more. They oil our lanes before we start, and conveniently keep open alleys on either side of us.

It is very friendly group of good bowlers. Often the Manager and asst bowl with us. When they do, there is no fee.

This kind of service keeps us coming back.

Recently, I went to a neighboring house. I live between them, 10 miles from each. And, found out that they are owned by the same people. In fact, a former assistant manager at my old house is now the assistant at this house. When he saw me, he set me up on a set of alleys, I bowled for an hour, total cost $2. He even joined me for 2 games.

I guess I am lucky to find these people.
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#7579 - 07/30/06 07:58 PM Re: Women on Men's league
BillinPhilly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 50 / M / Malvern, PA
Wow - this is one of the better threads I've read in a while!

I agree with the concept of "men's leagues", "mixed leagues" and "women's leagues." As the orignal poster pointed out, its about both the spirit of the league and the "night out" thing. I don't think it's outdated. I think it's fine - at the risk of sounding politically incorrect.

I might suggest - would a women's league that starts at 7pm or 9pm be the same crowd as the one that starts at 9 am, talking about their kids and personal lives at the expense of the bowling? I'd bet not. Maybe check into that?

If the men want to keep it a men's league, why is that wrong? Is it discrimination? Do you know, we have entire housing communites today sprining up all over the country where you are not allowed to buy a house unless you're older than 55? Isn't that discrimination? Not according to the US Supreme Court! So where is the line anymore?
_________________________
"Bowling should be played by bowlers, not physicists." - CoachJim

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#7580 - 07/30/06 08:30 PM Re: Women on Men's league
BillinPhilly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 50 / M / Malvern, PA
The league I am in now is a so-called "mixed" league. But only 2 teams have any women on them. All the other teams are made up entirely of men. There is no requirement that any team has to have a set number of women.
A team can be any combination of men and women, or all men, or all women.

Now, according to what other people wrote, isn't it a disadvantage to the 2 teams with women to have to bowl against teams made up of all men?

No - because actually, one of the 2 teams with the woman is in first place! Because of her low average, they get so much handicap every week that nobody can make it up. She has a 10x average. All she has to do is bowl 110 - 130 every game. And she does.

So it's actually a disadvantage to the teams who have to bowl against her team. This is why men should bowl with men and women should bwol with women - or there should be an equalizer rule that says every team must have at least one female, etc. But good luck with that in a summer league where they can't get anybody to bowl as it is...
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#7581 - 07/30/06 09:31 PM Re: Women on Men's league
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Now, according to what other people wrote, isn't it a disadvantage to the 2 teams with women to have to bowl against teams made up of all men?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Ahhhh, but what you are missing is the group effect women tend to have on each other. If there's only a few scattered amongst a bunch of teams then its difficult to get an ongoing chat session going. So in your league, most times, the women are not in clusters. This prohibits them to get into their regular female mode of socialization.

Erin

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#7582 - 07/30/06 11:54 PM Re: Women on Men's league
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
Aww, Erin, you're stereotyping us. wink I know, as well as you do, there's a specific type of woman that congregate to form gaggles. And there are men that are just as social. Like bronco said, often the league that starts at 9 am is different than the one that starts at 9 pm. For instance, we have a morning "moms" league at our center, that starts whenever the women mostly get there--9:30, 9:45, 9:50. I'm serious. Even my youth leagues are better about being on time than that smile
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#7583 - 07/31/06 01:55 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I'm just saying that having a woman on your team is not an instant disadvange. You have to take into account other issues. I've found few to none, women that are not in the gaggle if given a choice. But having a mixed league and terms being a woman per team or woman per league it won't really matter much unless you get too many women together at once.
Going out on a limb....I'd say 4 makes a gaggle.

And I've also seen the guy social teams too, but lets face it, they are easy to beat under most circumsteance. I'll even buy them their next pitcher of beer to prove it. Heck, I'd buy them two pitcher of beers.

Erin

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#7584 - 07/31/06 05:43 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Bikedad Offline
High Roller

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 347
A/S/L: 57/male/New Zealand. Right han...
"I'll even buy them their next pitcher of beer to prove it. Heck, I'd buy them two pitcher of beers."

Where do I sign up??
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#7585 - 07/31/06 08:24 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
The reason I started back bowling was that a business acquaintance knew that I used to bowl, and we would practice bowl occasionally. Well, a team member on his mixed league hurt her back, and they needed a replacement. I tried a comeback.
My friend was a solid 185, his wife 188, and the other lady 180. The woman I replaced was a 190 bowler. I struggled with a 175. I was the handicap for the team.
The next year, my friend and I got a team together and joined a mens league. The competition, although not very different in average to our mixed team, was different in that there was an additional feeling to be more competitive. I wasn't ashamed to be the bottom of the mixed league team, but I felt the need to be the top of the mens league team.
I improved significantly over the year. My average is up 20 pins. I am no longer the handicap for the mixed team, the 180 averages are. I credit the mens league with giving me the extra incentive to improve. There was a different competition feeling with men that I didn't get in a social setting with women.
It's a testosterone thing.
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