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#7547 - 06/29/06 07:50 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
In life, all of us have options. And, if one of them is to be with men on a bowling league, what is wrong with that? If we want to bowl in a mixed league, then so be it.

But, when people cross over to force an issue because it is their right, even I draw the line. Now they infringe on MY space.

But, this is not why I posted this. We are all together too conscious of what the other person thinks or what is politically correct, or who is going to bring suit.

Even in bowling, the Officers of our league, and the captains are concerned to do the right thing. Our league has existed as a mens league for more years than I have bowled in it. It is the Wednesday night premier league. And, the best in the house. We want to keep it that way, that's why we got into it. Just because we didn't name it a Mens League didn't mean that it was opened to both sexes. So we formalized that with a specific name change to Wednesday Men's Classic League. There is a Tuesday and Thursday Women's League, so that option is available for others. And there are averages that equal and exceed some men's. This is not the point.

Our concern was that we didn't want to rule on something that quite frankly, none of us wanted to be faced with, a [censored] change.

Well, we had our meeting, and this was our decision. We will allow this fellow to bowl because he conforms to our rules and there is NO reason to exclude him, as he has for 3 years. But, if or when he has the change (this will be his decision), he has changed his compliance to our rules and will not be allowed to return.

The President informed him of our decision, and he graciously accepted our point of view without any further discussion. So, all of our concern and worry was greatly relieved. All acted in a fair and rational way. He may not have his operation during the season and therefore this will not be an issue. But, as for now, we have decided to keep the meeting and the discussion among the officers and the captains, and not make an issue of it among the rest of the bowlers. We will try to respect his choice, if and when he does it.
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#7548 - 06/29/06 10:18 AM Re: Women on Men's league
SoCal Jeff Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 419
A/S/L: Orange County, CA
Well it sounds like alls well that ends well and it sounds like everyone handled a touchy situation very professionally. I know that I enjoyed this thread - made me think (what a concept)

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#7549 - 07/10/06 02:37 AM Re: Women on Men's league
BBowler Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 34
A/S/L: 51/female/California
Very interesting topic. It got me wondering, if he has the operation will USBC consider him a him or a her. While in most situations it doesn't matter, but will he then be able to bowl the USBC Women's National Championships? Just curious.

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#7550 - 07/10/06 11:21 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">
I always find it interesting that in todays PC correct world, people dont understand why there are social groups that would prefer to be men or women only. Men and women sometimes want a place or setting where they dont have to check certain behaviors or topics that are discussed. Lets be real here, a group of all one gender have a certain amount of freedom in how they can behave and what is OK to talk about. In mixed company that changes, or should to a certain degree.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">That's all well and good, but you're in a *public* bowling alley. There's no law preventing a woman from showing up and standing right behind your lanes.

There was also a statement made about someones wife subbing which caused the issue to be brought up in the first place. What happens when a wife shows up to watch? You certianly can't make rules to outlaw female spectators.

I guess I just don't understand how someone could feel that they couldn't act themselves because there's a woman or two in their league in a public establishment. I've bowled in regular "mixed" leageus and in scratch leagues where women bowled as well and I've never felt any different about them than an all mens league. I'm there to bowl, not worry about who else is bowling.

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#7551 - 07/18/06 06:27 PM Re: Women on Men's league
Rollin' Cowboy Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 192
A/S/L: 39/M/Atlanta
I say let the ladies in but what gripes me about this particular issue is that a women's league or tournament will not let a man bowl in it. Not that I want to but it's the principle of it all. What is good for the goose, should be good for the gander.
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#7552 - 07/19/06 02:01 PM Re: Women on Men's league
Chris Cenotti Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 154
A/S/L: 25/M/Northern California
I disagree, cowboy. Although there are women bigger and stronger physically than some men, in general most men are bigger, stronger, and - because of the history and culture we grow up in- quicker to pick up physical skills. Bowling is a large part mental, but there is no doubt that being able to throw a heavier ball, with more velocity and revs is an advantage.

That said, let me make an analogy: If a physcially developed and talented 13 year old started bowling in your adult league, would you expect the youth league to allow men to compete? It's a bit of an exaggeration, but I think you see the point.

Beyond the physical reasons, I disagree with the equality argument for my own reasons. I was taught an analogy of the pendulum. When it swings out of balance to one side, many times in order to come back to center (balance) first it has to swing to the opposite side. After how many hundreds of years of being pushed aside, I don't mind a little inequality in favor of the women in my life.

Chris

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#7553 - 07/19/06 10:45 PM Re: Women on Men's league
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
I say if women (or even youth) feels they can compete with men in a supposed "men's league", by all means let them compete. For most women, the competition level is so low that you see really good women bowlers top out at around 75%-80% potential average because they get tired of bowling with other women. Get them with the men and you'll watch their average soar.

My wife is a former pro bowler and a pretty accomplished local and state bowler, and she absolutely h-a-t-e-s bowling in a regular, non-competitive women's league. Why? Because most of the women just sit around and gab and turn what should be a 2 1/2 hour event into a freakin' marathaon! :rolleyes:

And for you high-roller guys, be honest too; if you're bowling in a league with a bunch of high handicappers don't you find yourself a little "lulled to death" by the lack of pace or consistency? I know I am at times. It's harder to focus when you're bowling at a pace that's slower than normal to you. Same for these higher-level women.

Geez, men's leagues have just about gone the way of the 5-deep teams anymore.
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#7554 - 07/20/06 03:38 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">My wife is a former pro bowler and a pretty accomplished local and state bowler, and she absolutely h-a-t-e-s bowling in a regular, non-competitive women's league. Why? Because most of the women just sit around and gab and turn what should be a 2 1/2 hour event into a freakin' marathaon! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Please give your wife a "high five" from me. And if she's of the drinking persuasion, I'd be happy to buy her a drink next time on the lanes.

Erin

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#7555 - 07/20/06 07:51 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
Nah, she doesn't drink, but I'm sure she'd accept the offer otherwise. I've been to enough tournaments with her to know her position. She's good enough to beat at least 1/2 of the men in men's leagues, anyhow, and for some guys, "ego" is the only thing that keeps women from bowling with them - "I don't like being beaten by a woman." Puhleeze. As if that's a factor. :rolleyes:

When we first moved to this area, we had a man who used to come in to our center to open bowl quite frequently (not too old, really - maybe late 20-ish). We tried to persuade him to bowl on a league, but he was interested in only bowling a "men's league". I asked him why, and out of earshot of my wife, he says, "because women do not belong on the same lanes as women because they're inferior bowlers compared to men". rotfl I darn near whizzed in my drawers in a fit of laughter because this guy was a buck and a half bowler on his best day. I told him that the days of hitting women over the head and dragging them around by the hair was long gone and that, apparently, he had too much testosterone for breakfast. Needless to say, we lost an open bowler because of it, but y'know, I didn't feel all that bad. I really didn't want to bowl against Zog anyways, especially with his attitude.

Besides, it's not like we make men who lose to women parade around town in skirts if they lose. eek
_________________________
"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

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#7556 - 07/20/06 11:33 AM Re: Women on Men's league
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Besides, it's not like we make men who lose to women parade around town in skirts if they lose. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Are you sure??? Because I thought I heard of this quaint little ritual in Georgia.

Erin

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