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#75281 - 01/12/09 09:58 AM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: untutored]
cgeorg Offline

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Some thoughts:

Randy: I don't know what changed, but he finally said ball names, instead of just "dull" or "shiny". Thank you Randy, or the PBA, or whomever. It was great the be updated in real time as people changed equipment.

PA: The razyr gave him some major over under. When he switched to the Vibe, he got a real great look. Kudos to him. He looked great on the Shark the whole time.

Walter Ray: Ouch. I can't believe he went down like that - when he got up, he looked like a mix of embarrassed for laying down, and disgusted for making a bad shot. It looked like he tugged that one, so it didn't hook up like the others. Also, that was the new Response, which is Mo's 2nd weakest ball after the Mojave, so I don't think it burned up. I just think he tugged it and it never finished into its roll phase. CoachJim - remember that first ball he threw on the Shark, where it hooked about half a board at the end of the lane, coming in high? They showed a few lane level shots? That was what my shot looked like on the ToC pattern, if it hooked at all.

Barnes: It didn't end up mattering, but that guy needs to learn how to concentrate on his spare shots. Seems like he's been struggling with under-reaction a lot lately too, like the ball is falling off his hand early or something.

Malott: That was a Silver Streak on the right lane. He breaks my heart. He has so much talent, and it seems like his mental game is just completely missing. He does not possess the killer instinct. You throw a split against Duke, or WRW, or PA, or Rash, and you're done. They will step on your throat. Throw one against Wes, big deal. He won't do anything about it. Randy used his "efficiency of motion" line on him. I have never heard him say that about anyone other than PDW. That is the caliber of talent this guy has, and it's just wasted. Even in his interview that they showed mid-match, it seemed like he just... didn't want it. Like he's going through the motions.
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#75288 - 01/12/09 11:39 AM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: leftykev]
Handful Offline
High Roller

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 32/male/St Pete, FL/ usa

My point is that it's wrong to dis-bleave he left that shot. [/quote]

What are you talking about? I don't Care if your a stroker, Tweener, or throw a house ball. When you throw a ball in the pocket, the last thing anyone is thinking is, "boy I sure hope I don't leave a pocket 8,10". Yes I am in disbelief, I figure a weak shot would have gotten him a solid 10, which would have given him a roll off with PA, eight pins to loose? That's painful.
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#75290 - 01/12/09 12:07 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: Handful]
leftykev Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 329
A/S/L: Spokane, WA
Yes it's painfull and everyone is in disblief, but he is only human. But, as cgeorg indicates: He made a bad shot, and I said, because it was a weak shot. Even pros make bad and/or weak shots. We just don't see them more often, since we aren't there during qualifying.

It was just as unbelievable as the 7pin that Chris Barnes missed and the pocket 7-10 Patrick Allen left.

#75291 - 01/12/09 12:35 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: leftykev]
bluesman_vt_2002 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 147
A/S/L: 40/M/VT
What would be really interesting to me would be to hear what Walter Ray thought of that shot. Would he have thought it was weak? You can hear him at the tail end, right before he got up to shoot the spare, something about "getting the pins on spot".

Now I don't know if that was him saying 'come on, what's up with this pair not spotting pins correctly'; Allen had an issue with it earlier when they wouldn't give him the second re-rack (the "stuff it in that rack" shot)or if he was just disgusted with himself for not seeing that they weren't in the right spot and not asking for the rerack.

Either way, back break for a great bowler. That happens in this game sometimes, we know it, he knows it. Just happened at a really, really bad time, as stated before.
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#75341 - 01/12/09 07:34 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: bluesman_vt_2002]
Satyuros Offline
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Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 188
A/S/L: 19/m/Alberta Canada
Lefty, it's the fact that it was an 8-10. Experienced bowlers know how rare it is to leave an 8-10, using normal equipment with ANY sort of rev rate and anything weighing over 14 pounds. It happens FAR less then a 7-10 or missing a single pin. PA bowled really good for the whole thing, I give him props, but he let walter in at the end of the match and realistically it should've gone to him.
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#75376 - 01/12/09 11:30 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: Satyuros]
BIGHMW Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 414
A/S/L: 48/M/Port Townsend, WA
After reviewing both the DVD I recorded of the show, and also seeing it on YouTube, it was confirmed that my suspicions were right. The 5-pin went in front of the 8 and he also left a flat-10 at the same time, and yes he was using not just a MoRich Response, but a polished-up Response at that so it would hook even less.

That ball eventually cost WRW the title. Also he got it more in the oil on the Cheetah Pattern, the first shot he threw in the 8th and 10th frames (the frst ball) were more down the boards as opposed to that shot in the 11th Frame, which was more like the "ol' high-hard-one", and even when he threw it Deadeye was down on one knee, not knowing what to expect.

Well, here it is, you be the judge, should Walter Ray have asked for a rerack before throwing that crucial shot? You can hear him murmur to himself the thought of it after the shot and horrible result.

Thanks, and may the PBA Hot Stove League commence another meeting of the minds on this one.
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#75428 - 01/13/09 09:46 AM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: BIGHMW]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
I have left many 8-10s in my day. It happens. Ball comes in flat, not much angle into the pocket. It happens. It just happened to him when he needed at least a 9 count. You can get all sorts of upset about it but, those are the breaks.
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#75458 - 01/13/09 01:31 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: General Pounder]
NewEnglandBowler Offline
High Roller

Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 364
A/S/L: 24/m/MA, USA
on second thought, after watching the video on youtube, walter ray did miss light a bit, so that would explain the 10 pin. And the ball did hit the 5 pin, which was untouched otherwise. it looks to me like the ball was light in the pocket just enough to drive straight through the three pin, at an angle such that the three pin hit the 6 into the channel and the ball followed the three pin to hit the 5 at an angle such that the 5 went in front of the 8 without hitting it. the only thing i can think of as an explanation for this is that the ball deflected too much because it was too light.

edit: yes, the above explanation is almost exactly what happened.

Edited by K.M. Ryan (01/13/09 01:33 PM)
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#75459 - 01/13/09 01:41 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: NewEnglandBowler]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 897
A/S/L: 39/M/New Jersey
8-10's are not that rare, watched an opponent in my summer league leave 2 in a row on the same lane, hit weak both times. Straighter, low rev players tend to leave them from time to time on that hit.

Current Average - 225

#75462 - 01/13/09 02:23 PM Re: Patrick Allen - Storm & Hammer? [Re: Mkirchie]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL

I did it at a tourney at Ohio St. years ago. During practice, I was carrying pretty good with a dulled up Turbo-X. First frame: 10 pin spare, 8-10, 8 pin spare, 8-10, 8-10. Now, I did nothing different and I had a decent line and was hitting pocket. The 4th and 5th frame, I moved from playing inside to out side and still left them. My coach looked at me and then looked at the seat next to him. That is where I was for the next game and a half.
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