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#74660 - 01/06/09 10:18 AM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: sk8shorty01]
ShadowBowling Offline
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Registered: 12/09/08
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A/S/L: 29/M/WV
The first oil line was about 1.5 inches from the middle finger hole, the guy said I had a medium Track. It definitely isn't going over the finger holes, as the oil flare lines are very clear. You can tell when a ball rolls over the finger holes, as with most thumbless bowlers.THWOMP THWMOP THWOMP as it travels down the lane.

I do kind of [censored] my wrist to the inside when settle the ball before the pushout. It's just the natural position it lies. I also do put a lot of revs on the ball, as I frequently hit on the outside of the head pin(overeaction), and get those lucky strikes.

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#74662 - 01/06/09 10:24 AM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: ShadowBowling]
sk8shorty01 Offline
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So then based on your general description, I don't believe that the 6 1/4 number is right. I think that was a mistake somehow because if you are off the fingers then I doubt your PAP could be that high. Its probably closer to 5 1/4, if I had to guess, although I am just learning the drilling aspects of bowling so I could be incorrect there.
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#74664 - 01/06/09 10:30 AM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: sk8shorty01]
ShadowBowling Offline
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The heads were kind of dry, so it is possible it didn't pick up the first oil line closest to the finger holes. We were just shooting the [censored] when we checked, I'm sure we will do it again when I go to get next ball drilled.

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#74666 - 01/06/09 10:43 AM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: ShadowBowling]
sk8shorty01 Offline
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I think you would still see an oil ring of some sort. If the mid lanes were still producing lines, it is probably going to in the heads as well, although thats just my guess. Anything is possible. You could always check on your own. Just take a piece of white tape and put it on the ball near your PAP, then move it until you get a perfect dot at the axis. Then just measure it yourself. Should be relatively easy to accomplish one day in practice.
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#74687 - 01/06/09 02:46 PM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: sk8shorty01]
J_w73 Offline
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Use a low/no flaring ball.. ie your plastic spare ball to find the PAP. Stick a piece of white tap somewhere close to where you think your pap is. Now thow your spare ball like throw a normal first shot (same revs and hand release). Watch or have someone watch the ball in the first half of the lane.. if you are on your pap the tape should stay in one spot. If it moves you are off. Move the tape a bit.. if it gets worse then move the tape the other way.. Adjust the tape till you get a stable spot.. now measure from your center grip.. this is your PAP.
You can confirm this with a definate oil ring and an armadillo.
I like to do both methods to confirm..
Now I do Track lower on my assymetrical stuff.. don't ask me why..I'm still trying to figure that out..

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#74689 - 01/06/09 02:49 PM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: J_w73]
sk8shorty01 Offline
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You probably Track higher with your assymetrical stuff because the ball does Flip to some degree before it hits the lane surface, depending on the amount of knee bend and loft you apply in your approach. This would probably explain the phenomenon that you are experiencing. Due to the weight block being so out of rotation, it is flipping itself more so in order to true up, and gets just a touch further in the Flip before it contacts the lane surface. This is just a guess without knowing anything about your game, but this could be it.
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#74693 - 01/06/09 04:11 PM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: sk8shorty01]
cgeorg Offline
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Shadow - do you bowl thumbless?
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#74694 - 01/06/09 04:42 PM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: cgeorg]
ShadowBowling Offline
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Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 58
A/S/L: 29/M/WV
Nope, I have the calluses to prove it.

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#74711 - 01/06/09 07:32 PM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: sk8shorty01]
J_w73 Offline
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Originally Posted By: sk8shorty01
You probably track higher with your assymetrical stuff because the ball does flip to some degree before it hits the lane surface, depending on the amount of knee bend and loft you apply in your approach. This would probably explain the phenomenon that you are experiencing. Due to the weight block being so out of rotation, it is flipping itself more so in order to true up, and gets just a touch further in the flip before it contacts the lane surface. This is just a guess without knowing anything about your game, but this could be it.


not sure if this is the same thing you are explaining but I was thinking the ball is flaring off my hand and before it hits the lane...(as I do have a bit of loft and decent revs) but I didn't know if a ball will flare without friction..

I think this is the same basic premis you are talking about...

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#74715 - 01/06/09 08:47 PM Re: What is your Positive Axis Point (PAP)? [Re: J_w73]
sk8shorty01 Offline
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A ball can flare in the air, as the ball is off balance based on the axis you are giving it. A good showing of how this is possible, take something that has wights that are out of balance (a Hammer, bowling pin) and spin it into the air. You will notice that the object will "wobble" in the air, changing its axis on each revolution. Its not the best example, but it does show some sort of axis migration. Hope that explains it a little better.
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