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#73816 - 12/27/08 09:35 AM Re: Handicapping [Re: dante21]
Lefty Offline

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY

That tournament uses 70% of 210 and draws a huge amount of bowlers. They also bowl on a pretty flat shot and the best bowlers always end up making the cut and cashing. It is a handicap tournament and the entry fee is only $50 so it draws a lot of bowlers. There were 1083 not counting re-entries.

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#73828 - 12/27/08 03:21 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: dante21]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
A lot of people do not want to work to get better. They are too busy or just don't have the drive and desire. They want handicap to even the field for them, when in most cases they could improve themselves with some effort. Many sub 150 bowlers are so intimidated by those over 200 that they don't even think they could ever get competative enough. This is why I think divisions are a good idea, and if you improve you can move up in division.


#73830 - 12/27/08 05:13 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: Atochabsh]
dante21 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 55
A/S/L: 26/m/IN
Oh, I completely agree divisions are a great idea. If properly implemented with no people trying to sandbag. Back when I was in high school my sophomore year Indiana went to a class system for state tournaments instead of every school in the same tourney. Coming from a small school with a record (yes it was a record) 61 seniors this allowed us not have to play huge schools such as Michigan City and Indianapolis. However when we got to semi-state in basketball and baseball we ran into the same Catholic school who by ISHAA loopholes was allowed to recruit kids, but stayed small enough to compete at the lowest level. They won state 2 out of the 3 years back then, and the same thing happens with divisions and sandbagging.
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#76550 - 01/22/09 11:44 AM Re: Handicapping [Re: dante21]
superchick Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 33
A/S/L: 43/ female/Texas
I bowled for the first time last week as a sub in a league. My first game was 161, 2nd was 148 and 3rd 215. Now the third game my adrenaline was flowing and the team captain told me to pull back, if i wanted to. Now I asked him WHY should I pull back, he said "you are setting an average and you dont want to set it high". Now afterwards we won all 4 games and it was due to handicaps. The team I was on was a last place team of 32 teams and we bowled against a 4th place team. They said they hadnt won a game in weeks. They asked me for my phone number and invited me to come back. Now heres my point, I hadnt bowled in 15 yrs until may of 2008. When I stopped bowling on a league in the 80's my book average was 189. There was sandbaggin then but it was only mainly at the beginning of the season when someone was setting an average and once u did that you went on and bowled your behind off also there was no prize money involved just trophies. After a 25 yr hiatus from league bowling, I come back to find it to be totally different. I have NEVER been encouraged to bowl badly or miss spares. The prize monies arent enough for me to split 6000.00 between 5 members, uncle sam and the cost of bowling weekly to make me not try to do my best. I dont care about being on the last placed team because I am truly one that enjoys the sport. I am not competitive against other people at all by I compete against myself. I truly enjoyed bowling for the first time in over 20 yrs on a league the other night but if it is that darn competitive I might rethink it. I am a very good spare bowler. I pick up 98% of my spares. I dont throw a big curve but I am extremely accurate sparer and that is why I was seeked by most teams back in the 80's. I will ALWAYS compete against myself and try to be the best but I could care less about trying to compete against anyone else. So this handicap and sandbagging stuff has ruined the sport.

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#76566 - 01/22/09 12:27 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: superchick]
cgeorg Offline

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
It should be easy for you to find another team that shares your values. I would not bowl for that team again.
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#76572 - 01/22/09 12:48 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I find it comical when this is done. People rely on the almighty HANDICAP to win games. If you look at most handicap leagues, the higher scratch average team usually wins.
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#76604 - 01/22/09 03:46 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: Dennis Michael]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5166
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
I agree. I never sandbag to try and get a low average, not even week one. Here is an example, in the summer league that just passed I started the year off 690-732-702, and I had a 234 average or something like that. Now there was no way I was going to keep it there but it was worth every bit of it to start off like that. I would never consider doing anything differently and if I were you I would look for a different team and bowl with people that are their to bowl well and have fun.
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#77444 - 01/28/09 02:49 AM Re: Handicapping [Re: sk8shorty01]
wuphat Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 9
A/S/L: 34/M/NJ
I bowl with my duaghter in a non-sanctioned Adult Child league.

We have 3 sessions per year and we ended the fall session with my avg at 179 and hers at 120. Well, we are 9 games into the new session and I'm at 190 and she is at 135. She's 12 and I've been very adament about teaching her the right way to bowl, and I don't mean the physical aspect. We don't sandbag, we don't throw away shots. She knows more about lane courtesy than most adults. The handicap is 90% of the difference of the two teams. We take our lumps when it comes to handicap, often losing by less than 20 pins even when we are over avg. It happens. I wish there were a better way, but we press on, and I use those loses as a training tool to show her where a missed spare could make the difference in a game.

In fact, this past week we missed out on 63 pins because of 6 missed single pin spares between us in one game alone. I showed this to her and the next game she didn't miss a single single pin spare.

Wow, didn't mean to go off on a tangent like that. Stream of consious much?

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