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#73611 - 12/23/08 03:03 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: Chubbs]
Chubbs Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 494
A/S/L: 30/M/Niceville, FL
Sorry to double post, but I found a great bit of dialogue from the Simpsons that applies perfectly to this subject.


Lisa: But my parents are counting on seeing me dance! And Iíve worked ever so hard.

Vicki: Iím sorry, Lisa, but giving everyone an equal part when theyíre clearly not equal is called what, again, class?

Class: Communism!
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#73613 - 12/23/08 03:17 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: Chubbs]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Quote:
Problem is that going to 66 1/3% handicap kills the bowlers who are there for fun and not sandbaggers.


If they are there for fun, then I guess they don't care if they win or lose.

Erin

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#73615 - 12/23/08 03:20 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: Chubbs]
General Pounder Offline
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Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
Chubbs:

I understand your point. But when you make it that much harder for a person who is coming out for fun to win and they come out week after week and get stomped, where is the fun in that? Fun bowlers don't want to be pushovers. They want to be somewhat competitive.
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#73616 - 12/23/08 03:35 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: General Pounder]
Chubbs Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 494
A/S/L: 30/M/Niceville, FL
Originally Posted By: General Pounder
Chubbs:

I understand your point. But when you make it that much harder for a person who is coming out for fun to win and they come out week after week and get stomped, where is the fun in that? Fun bowlers don't want to be pushovers. They want to be somewhat competitive.


Of course it's not fun to get rolled, but it should motivate you to improve your capabilities so it doesn't happen again. Up until about 15 years ago, that was the American way. Instead of honoring the game by working at it, "Joe Justforfun" tries to win by cooking the numbers and stacking the odds in his favor and in so doing makes a mockery of bowling. Real improvement is accessible to anyone through coaching, practice, and properly fit equipment. Winning that way is far more satisfying than using the crutch of handicap.


Edited by Chubbs (12/23/08 03:38 PM)
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Vise-IT and Dexter...that's how I roll.

Quintana...that creep can roll, man. -Dude

Wow, that ball hit like it was plastic. -Jeff Carter

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#73620 - 12/23/08 03:43 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: Chubbs]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I know its not fun to lose all the time. But the way handicap is now, its not fair to the 180 - 210 bowler. They get caught in the middle. Killed by handicap and not good enough for the higher scratch bowlers.

Where's my "bailout"?

Erin

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#73627 - 12/23/08 04:07 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: Atochabsh]
dmoney298 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 183
A/S/L: 27/M/Baltimore, MD
I totally understand what everyone had been saying here. In my area, finding a handicap tournament is like finding a needle in a haystack. Just aint going to happen. Unfortunately I'm not good enough to compete in a scratch tournament. So like Erin said, you kinda stuck in the middle if you're in that range. On an interesting note, there are two teams in my friday nite league. They are out there for fun, but when you bowl them you will give up at least 100 pins. I've had to give up 150 when I bowl the two teams. But surprisingly, these two teams are currently first and second going into the last position round to end the first half of the season.

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#73629 - 12/23/08 04:11 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: dmoney298]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
It's the other way here. We have one local tour that is scratch - no scratch leagues, not many scratch tournaments, no sport leagues, and only a few of the tournaments are on non-house shots. I would love to be in a scratch/sport friendly area. Perhaps someday I can get more of that around here.
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#73643 - 12/23/08 07:52 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: cgeorg]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
My team in my handicap league is always giving pins. We seem to give no less than 100 every time, I could be wrong though. There might be a couple teams between 50 and 100 pins. And we have a 130 average bowler with my 200 and my other teammates are 205+ and 180+. Handicap is 100% of 200. I don't mind giving pins honestly, I'm not bowling with sandbaggers, but we have to outbowl our opponents like there's no tomorrow if we want to win, especially if my 130 average and 180 average bowler are shooting 100 and 150 respectively. Those games, we're just not going to win unless some how the other team has bowlers that are way under average.

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#73644 - 12/23/08 08:29 PM Re: Handicapping [Re: Jay R.]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I don't mind giving pins in league, but I'm not willing to give 100%. And I'm certainly not in favor of giving 100% in tournaments.

Erin

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#73806 - 12/27/08 01:19 AM Re: Handicapping [Re: Atochabsh]
dante21 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 55
A/S/L: 26/m/IN
I don't get it. I bowl to have fun, and winning just happens to be fun. I'm about as ulta-competitive as a person can get, but I want to win under fair conditions for everyone, except not putting higher average bowlers at a disadvantage. The only way to get better is to play against others that are better than you. At least that is the way it is for me. In high school I wanted to hit of the best pitcher, wanted to be guarded by the best defender who is forcing me to get better or fall behind. Maybe it's just the competitiveness in me.
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